Can I walk away from this without prompting him to kill himself?

[theabysswithin]

Need some help with this... my ex and I separated two years ago at my instigation for a variety of reasons (verbal and financial abuse/alcohol dependency/inability or unwillingness to participate in family life and refusal to contribute financially being the most significant).

My ex has always been prone to bouts of depression and over the past month or so has been seriously depressed and has been threatening suicide over a variety of issues (financial problems and loneliness being the main ones.

We didn't exactly separate amicably but we've maintained a reasonably cordial relationship in front of our daughter almost too cordial in that I feel he is over-dependent on me emotionally and still asks me to do quite a lot of life admin for him and we spend a reasonable amount of time together. I've tried to draw back from this as I have totally moved on, but as his depression has deepened I've become worried about him and I am basically the only person he can talk to about it.

The flip side of this is he is quite controlling and makes it really hard for me to have any kind of social life by withholding childcare, things like going off the radar when we have arranged for him to be looking after my daughter, not returning phone calls to confirm appointments and being so late he renders it impossible for me to go out. He has refused any formal contact agreements at all and every time I try discuss these he shuts me down and says he is going to run away etc. No financial support from him at all aside from him buying the odd item of clothing for our daughter.

Last week he said he wanted to kill himself, I came with him to an appointment with a therapist and generally supported him around interactions with doctors and helped him get his act together around work. All seemed to be going well and then tonight following an extremely petty disagreement he has just rung me to tell me he will kill himself tonight. I promptly called an ambulance and the police (who I presume are with him now).

I know these are bullying tactics and that he is probably bluffing. I am absolutely sick of being the backstop for everything in his life and being abused into the bargain when I try to regain some degree of control by going out occasionally, having my work disrupted by having to look after him etc. But the bottom line is that for my daughter's sake, I can't just stand by and watch him die.

How do I get out of this loop? We are going through mediation at the moment and even though I'm probably going to have to shell out to get him out of my life I'm happy to do this. But for her sake, I can't let him destroy himself and I couldn't live with the guilt if he did.

Am I basically stuck with this for the rest of my life?

No. You are not stuck with this. Disengage by letting a family member or friend of his know what he's doing then step away. You owe him nothing.

My ex did the same and actually took pills one night and hacked at his wrists , he texted me to tell me so. I phoned his dad and walked away. After this I only had contact with him through third parties until he calmed down and stopped his abusive crap.

Life is too short OP. Stop allowing this and he'll give up the attention seeking crap.

Sorry if I sound callous but this kind of behavior is sickening.

Bring depressed is not an excuse for being and arsehole, which he clearly is. You need to accept that you are not responsible for him or his actions. Mediation won't do that for you, you can only do that for yourself. You might think you are doing the best to protect your children, but it is highly likely he will in time manipulate them in the same way. You can show your kids by example that no one, not even your parent has the right to use you as an emotional punch bag. Be sensitive, don't be brutal, but you need to set your boundaries with him and stick to them, regardless of the threatened consequences. It will be really hard at first, but be consistent and he should get the message eventually. If he doesn't then you will need to completely disengage and get contact and finances sorted legally. You can do this, the alternative is not an option.

You want your daughter to have a relationship with a manipulative controlling alcoholic bully who uses suicide threats as a control mechanism.

Why?

That's the absolute last thing I would want for my daughter.

You do realise that if you continue to model these behaviours to her, she will more than likely get a boyfriend like this too? You are teaching her that it is ok for men to behave like this and women have to suck it up. Don't do that to her.

Stop trying to manage his life for him. Of course he won't learn to stand on his own if you keep propping him up. Obviously it isn't working anyway if he's there with the ambulance and police right now.

This is exactly the right point to say no more and go almost zero contact. He shouldn't be having contact with his daughter if he's that ill.

Thanks. He doesn't have any family in this country or even any really close friends really. I am literally the only person he can talk to -- I think this is part of the problem.

I know I need to disengage. But I can't live with the fear of having to tell my daughter he has done something stupid.

He will probably now lose his job as a result of what's happened and his flat as a result. It will become immeasurably harder for him to have contact with our daughter and he's going to f* her up through this.

I hate him for what he's putting us through but I can't bring myself to just let him die.

RunRabbit I'm not modelling these behaviours. I kicked him out precisely to get away from these behaviours, because I wanted to get her away from it -- I know you're trying to help but please don't paint me as some beaten down submissive who doesn't get that this is abusive. But I can't just say "ok, go and top yourself."

How old is your dd? Is she at all aware of what's going on with him?

I could have written this word for word. My abusive ex sulks and threatens suicide every time I don't do something for him. It's emotional blackmail and emotional abuse. I helped him set up his own flat etc and I wish I hadn't bothered because he is still completely dependent on me almost a year later and although I don't love him anymore I couldn't live with myself if he carried out the threat of suicide.

I have been no contact for the past week and it's been absolute bliss. I had enough after he turned up at my door at 6am demanding my bank card so he could get fuel to go to work. He is skint constantly because he drinks so much and sniffs as much shit as possible. He woke the kids up shouting and terrified them so I phoned the police who have had a word and warned him to stay away from me. Haven't heard a peep since, he didn't turn up for his arranged contact days.

The past couple of months I've been ignoring most of his calls and texts and only replying the same thing - that I'm no longer able to help him and to leave me alone.

You need to be firm and stick to no. It's difficult but you can't take responsibility for his depression and suicidal thoughts, you have done more than you needed to by going to appointments and supporting him but it will never end unless you stop all contact with him and get a solicitor to arrange access via a court order. I have been granted residencey of the children and he has access rights once a week.

He didn't turn up this week so I'm not sure where I'm going from here.

Sorry if that was rambling and didn't make sense.

but really you haven't walked away, have you?....you may as well admit that

you are nursemaiding him about ..admin, appointments, time together......and he is still abusing and controlling you albeit from a minutely further remove, but nothing really has changed.

but really you haven't walked away, have you?....you may as well admit that

you are nursemaiding him about ..admin, appointments, time together......and he is still abusing and controlling you albeit from a minutely further remove, but nothing really has changed.

The harsh reality is that if you really want to break this cycle, you will need to find a way of accepting you cannot take responsibility for him. Otherwise this cycle will continue and your daughter will inevitably be caught up in it.
I don't think rabbit suggested that you are submissive, but she quite rightly points out you need to find the strength to do this. You think you have no choice, he has created that illusion. That's what bullies do. But you do have a choice, a totally shit choice, but a choice nonetheless.

Disney sorry to hear you're going through this as well, it makes perfect sense, to the point that I'm wondering if its the same man.

I am perfectly prepared to walk away from him. But I'm damned if I'm going to have him ruining my daughter's life.

My daughter is six and she doesn't really know what's going on, no. She understands that mum and dad are separated and she seems fine with this, in part because she has a high degree of contact with him.

I've worked really hard probably too hard to keep things amicable and have solemnly sworn not to slag him off in front of her and to present a harmonious front.

Now at the very least I am going to have to tell her that dad is in hospital and has lost his job, possibly worse.

I think it is time to accept that there's nothing more I can do to help him.

Belleende I guess... what sucks is that I feel I can't win and I'm a bad parent whatever happens. I desperately wanted for him not to walk out of her life and I guess I put up with more than I should have in order to preserve this, at cost to myself.

Now I am being told I'm a weak, poor role model even though I've gone it totally alone with no help for the past two years, worked my arse off and given up all my spare time to make her feel comfortable and happy.

If he were to kill himself it would not be your fault
My ex was like this .
There were times he was seriously ill. But the best decision was reporyi ng it and leaving him to the professionals.
You cannot care for your dc and care for a suicidal person.
If you want to care for him then find someone to be with your dd while you do so. Your dd sdies not need to see this.
You need to walk away disengage and use these attempts to get supervised contact with your dd.
You have done the right thing calling police ambulance
You dont have to be responsible for his mh
Now leave him to the professionals
Dont let dd see him unless supervised
If there is a court order then have ypur solicitor file that he is suicidal and should be supervised access only

You are not his parent

Your job is to parent your dd

I honestly think you should say exactly that.

If he is not bluffing then he will get the help he needs.

If he is bluffing then you stop this farce.

You are still letting yourself be controlled. You have no control whatsoever over his mental state but are letting it control your life. You know he is bullying you even after you've kicked him out.

Suicide is serious. It is outrageous that he's using it to control you. If he's genuinely unwell then you are doing him harm by continuing your dysfunctional role as his pretend psychiatric support worker so he doesn't have to actually deal with his issues.

So yes, tell him that he has to make his own decisions about what is best for him.

You are still embroiled in an emotionally abusive relationship with this man, and it is serving neither of you well. You need to find a way to detach, maybe consider counselling to look at why you feel such a responsibility towards him? You need other options for child-care if you can, to establish another life. You are not responsible for him. If he had behaved reasonably as a husband, you would not be in this situation, so you need to see how much of this situation is his own fault, and not the fault of his mental health. You can be an arse as well as having MH issues unfortunately.

You are obviously strong but maybe that strength is hurting you. You need to cut him off properly. Stop wasting your strength on him. Imagine how great your life could be if you didn't have him sapping your strength.

You've done well to get this far. Don't let him rob you of the successes.

It's not fair to have the onus on you even if he was being serious.

Whenever he sends a message like that text him the number to Samaritans.

I'd be worried about him having time alone with DD if he is so erratic behaviour wise.

I know depression takes lots of forms but when I've had major depression episodes you don't have the energy to manipulate anyone, moving one door in front of the other is hard enough.

He's keeping you involved - step back.

Give your concerns to his family or a friend and just keep talk about contact.

You can't prevent ypur dd having to deal with his mh
You can get support for that
He wont t ruin her life
Children are resilient with the right support
Worse case scenario he does go ahead and you support her thru a bereavement. Harsh yes but it would not be your fault.
Get professional help to talk to ypur dd and explain what is going on e.g. if he is getting psych help in hospital.

Your challenge is to support your dd whatever happens .
It is not your challenge to cure your ex. If he is genuinely ill he needs professional help

You're all right, I know you're all right. I guess I'm just pissed off with myself for letting it get to this stage. I genuinely thought maintaining amicable and regular contact with him was the best thing to do for her.

I guess I should have bitten the bullet and done this two years ago but there have been relatively harmonious periods where we've co-parented reasonably well. Now she's two years older and it will be harder for her.

You say you wanted him not to walk away from dd....

But you can't control what he does
Only he can
You can we t him to be x or y but it is down to him
If he is manipulating you into thinking he will do xx if you do y then it s pure manipulation

His mental health isn't your concern.

Yours is and yours will be messed up by this.

Where do you draw the line here?

5 years time you don't want him to hurt himself so you are still there? 10?

It may be he does one day kill himself but that's his decision to make.

My worry is he'll try some of that emotional blackmail on his DD soon as she's getting older.

Go to gp and ask for referral to counselling for you for dd if she is finding it hard

You cannot protect her from how he is.
You can support her to deal with it.

You can get help for yourself.

Let him get help for him

I could have written your post a year ago - alcoholic, financially incapable ex who regularly threatened suicide and all I wanted was for him to be a good dad to his children.
After a particularly grim incident which became physical I refused to let him come to the house.
Since then life is calm - he doesn't see the kids unless they are at his mum's so every couple of months.
But my children are well strong and happy because I am.
I spent a lot of time reading up on co-dependency and realised my need to fix things and make things ok was basically the problem in stopping me moving forward. I also got advice on the impact of his inconsistent presence and mood swings on the kids.
Not saying you are the same but I wanted him.to be better so much before and after the split that I couldn't see that the choices were his - even suicide and I needed to let go and focus on the kids.
Good luck OP - it's bloody hard but I hope it works out for you.

My useless ex threatened suicide. I phoned his brother and sister to go deal with it.

I have 2 DCs and no time to nursemaid a manipulative shit who was doing sweet f.a. for or with me. Id never have to thought to tell DCs or anybody that I was responsible for his suicide if he'd done it - because I wouldn't be, would I? His choice. Not my circus. Cant't abide blackmailers.

Not that I think he'd do it but OP if it came to it, would you really tell or even hint to your DD it was your fault? . You could scar her mind. Just that this and other things you've said smacks a bit of being attracted to drama.

Anyway in all, sensible thing is to put your DD and her wellbeing 1st. He's not a good dad and if he remains around your life; that's all saying you continue to enable him, then she will know that soon enough, unfortunately.