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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I feel so mixed up. Is this controlling?

801 replies

Poppysquad · 07/06/2017 23:10

I am sorry, a bit of a saga.

I have been with my partner for four and a half years and we bought a house together about eighteen months ago. I have a son of 19, who lives with me, he is re-sitting his a levels at the moment. My partner has never had children.
Over our initial twelve months together he broke off our relationship twice. The first time we tried again, the second time it happened I did not contact him and left him alone and after time he came back.
There have been moments - when we took my son and a friend on holiday he told me that he would come home if the kids misbehaved. I ended up telling him that I couldn't guarantee their behaviour and I would rather go on my own. He was fine in the end.Since we have moved in probably every three months, he gets cross and threatens that he will leave. A number of these times are as a result of something my son has done e.g. allowed someone to sleep in his bed, i.e.the bed he brought into the house when we moved in, or using his speaker and letting it overheat. Once we reach this trigger there is a series of things that he says to me, like 'what do I do for him' - and I never support him and I don't do anything, I just come home from work and put the telly on. Just after Christmas we narrowed down the trigger for the rage as being the fact that I did not wipe down the work surfaces sufficiently.
It has built and built and just over a week ago, following a return from a weekend away, when my son wiped the table with bacterial spray and removed the wax and, so my partner says, allowed someone to sleep in his bed again, he just walked out of the house. Taking nothing with him. He just left. He stayed in a number of hotels for three nights. He called each day. Sometimes he seemed cross that I was not falling apart without him.
Then he came home! And here he is in the house, sleeping in the spare room, and I really don't know where I stand.
In terms of the controlling, I am expected to cook tea every night even though I work full time in a demanding job and my partner is at home and retired.
He likes to eat early so I feel under pressure to make sure I am home in time if I've stopped on my way home.
He is with me all the time. If a girl friend calls in, he just stays and joins in the conversation. I don't get anytime on my own.
He tuts and roles his eyes if I make a stupid mistake like dropping something,
He is critical of my driving and I have lost confidence in my ability to reverse completely.On the night before I went into hospital for a cancer biopsy with general anesthetic I knocked over a sleeper in the garden with my car. A silly accident and something I've done probably four times before. He had fixed this and I had broken it again. He was so cross with me that he said that he would stay with my during the biopsy, but he would not be here the following day. So, if the specialist had said that there could be an issue, he was saying he wouldn't be there. All because of a piece of wood. I was shocked.
He says that my son is a lazy s**t, who is totally inconsiderate. He is, to be fair, a typical self centred 19 year old. But he really is not a bad kid.
If I moan about how my son is behaving he tells me that basically it's my own fault as I had bought him up.
I don't know. This just sounds like a rant. I do know that I don't feel that things are right. I am worried that the nastiness could escalate. He is now in the house again, and I don't know what I want I happen. Do I want him to stay or not? Do I want a relationship with him or not?
Help ! Does anyone have any views?

OP posts:
IHeartDodo · 09/09/2017 08:32

I think that's a little unfair to people with autism... It sounds like a sign of a selfish guy who's lived on his own for too long and likes getting his own way!

Arkengarthdale · 09/09/2017 08:33

He sounds horrible! You must surely be relieved to be no longer required to tread on eggshells every day? I'm relieved for you!

AttilaTheMeerkat · 09/09/2017 08:36

Poppy

Re your comment
wondered if it's partly because he's spent so much time on his own?

No. Stop trying to think up excuses for him like this and autism (autism as well does not equal abusive) as well because that way madness lies. This man basically targeted you and further exploited the insecurities you have within you from your own past. He has also acted like an abusive arsehat towards you and in turn your son throughout.

Re this comment:-
"I really think that he struggles with empathy. Is this an indication of some mild form of autism?"

No. This man you have written of I daresay is nowhere on the ASD spectrum. A lack of empathy can be associated with someone who has a personality disorder like narcissistic personality disorder. Narcissistic people have no empathy at all.

I would echo what Blessed has written; do not see this counsellor next Thursday. Cancel the session now. No decent counsellor would ever want to see the two of you in a room together anyway due to the abuse he has meted out towards you. Also WA when you spoke to them told you he was abusive.

Counselling for you solely is essential to unravel how and why it is that you got to this point in the first place; it probably has a lot to do with what you yourself learnt about relationships when growing up along with your relationship with your dad.

Gooseberrytart4 · 09/09/2017 08:46

It is normal for your son to clear up his own mess and sometimes cook, Hoover, clean the loo. However it has crossed my mind that your DH may have OCD or ASD? He seems quite ridged and inflexible in his thinking.

GinandGingerBeer · 09/09/2017 09:00

In this house if someone cooks a meal, you eat it and be bloody grateful someone has taken the time to plan it, shop for it and cook it. The other person then sorts the kitchen out.
Poppy, please read the full thread again. Don't get back with him, you're very vulnerable and that's what he likes.

Motoko · 09/09/2017 10:41

Autism? Hell no! My niece and granddaughter have bags of empathy.

Don't try to find excuses for the way he behaves. The only important thing is that it is the way he behaves.

Don't go to joint counselling. You should never have joint counselling with an abuser, and remember, WA (remember, they are experts) told you he is an abuser. Cancel the appointment.

AcrossthePond55 · 09/09/2017 14:55

Please stop trying to find reasons for the way he is. It doesn't matter why, it only matters that he is selfish and hurtful. And that you are not the best you nor the happiest you that you can be when he's around. And he loves to remind you of that fact, too!

Please cancel the double session. Or tell him that you will not be going, but that he should still go, alone. As you will be seeing a counselor on your own, too. Tell him that both of you need to discover why each of you is so anxious to preserve a relationship that makes neither of you happy. See what he says to that! (Probably lots of what YOU need to do to make him happy and how you can 'fix' yourself and your lovely son)

blessedbrianblessed · 11/09/2017 20:29

This is really interesting - all about why we may fear to be alone

www.huffingtonpost.com/margaret-paul-phd/fear-of-being-alone_b_1002364.html

Poppysquad · 13/09/2017 07:38

Thanks blessed an interesting article. I can associate with the conclusions. I do have a deep held fear of being on my own long term. I've been a little better a few eveningts this week but am still filling my time. I am also trying to take inspiration from people I know who are doing really well on their own. I do think it's about building self esteeem - and not needing endorsement from anyone else.

OP posts:
whitehandledkitchenknife · 13/09/2017 07:57

Well, I'm going to stick my head above the parapet Poppy and say 'Yes, he certainly behaves in a manner which late undiagnosed/unrecognised Aspergers men behave.
Pedants, please don't get into DSMV argument.
I've read your full thread and right from the start, that's what screamed out at me. Your self doubting, your hoping, your turning everything over to find positives is very similar to those who live/have lived through relationships with such men.
There is an excellent website called Different Together whose aim is to support partners of those with AS, whether diagnosed/recognised or not. It is a place of safety and sanity where you can explore your thoughts and feelings. It recognises the impact that being in such a relation can have.
Please don't have couples counselling with him. Do it for you, if it will help, but not with him.

Zaphodsotherhead · 13/09/2017 09:16

Poppy he is missing all the things you did for him. Not you, with your hopes and fears and wants, anyone who will cook his food, do his bidding Andy listen to his ranting. Does he even know you? Does he understand you? Or was all the early stuff just him paying lip service because he knew he had to pretend to be loving and caring for a while to get the trade off of someone to care for him when he couldn't be bothered?
He sees you as a 'thing' not a person. Been there, done that and happily out.

Poppysquad · 14/09/2017 07:48

white what drew you to this conclusion? is there a quick reference of the behaviour you'd expect from someone with AS? I know that it's not just about knowing why as across says, I'm just curious.

A number of you have suggested that I see a counsellor. I am. A very experienced counsellor and I getting some excellent support and am building my self esteem.

I am slightly worried about next weekend. My son leaves for uni on the Saturday. I have family and friends who live near his uni but no one is home! There must be half a dozen people and none of them are around on the Saturday. I am just conscious that I wanted to be with someone for a while after I drop him off. I didn't want to just go home and just sense the empty house and feel sorry for myself and howl.

Tonight is another test of being on my own. My son is away with friends and although someone is dropping some stuff of for me this evening I am not planning on doing much. So hopefully a restful evening with a decent bit of TV. I think I need it. I am exhausted.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 14/09/2017 13:01

So hopefully a restful evening with a decent bit of TV. I think I need it.

I think you do too! Just add a nice bit of something special to eat and you have my perfect evening!

whitehandledkitchenknife · 14/09/2017 19:19

Gosh, where do I start? This is not definitive. It is not placing all individuals with autism in one bag. As Temple Grandin says 'You meet one person with autism, you've met one person with autism'. It is so highly individual, that what people generally associate with autism, may not always be apparent, especially in older people.
Let's start with empathy. It isn't true that those with autism lack empathy, often it's quite the opposite, especially when there is an attachment to someone they consider special. It is true that those with autism are ultimately anxious. And have difficulties in reading social cues both verbal and physical. There can be difficulties in processing information which has emotional content.
When someone is highly anxious but doesn't know how to successfully read verbal and physical cues and hasn't learned how to offer suitable support to another who is struggling, this can ramp up the anxiety, which in turn can lead to a sensory overload, that triggers a number of responses in that person, several of the most common are to switch off and/or walk away or conversely to explode/rage.
My personal opinion is that there are a lot of undiagnosed/unrecognised adults with autism out there. When you consider that autism as a diagnosis was only really recognised in the 70s (and it tended to be the more classic behaviours associated with autism that were recognised), that leaves a population of people born in the 40s,50s,60s,70s rattling around, often in relationships that have caused their partners to doubt their very sanity because they are faced with a plethora of confusing and conflicting behaviours. Many people with unrecognised autism have evolved highly sophisticated ways of managing what is essentially a life of tension and ultimately stress. One of the ways of managing that stress is to pursue solitary hobbies - running, fishing, diving - for example, without necessarily realising the underlying reason.

So, to answer your question, what was it about your post that threw up red flags?

  • his inability to manage his emotional responses (does he even recognise his emotional states)
  • projecting an emotional state (which he may not recognise in himself) onto another, in this case, your son
-not being able to handle anything being wrong with you (anxiety because he has attached himself to you)
  • needing to have what he wants, when he wants it (eating early)
-having rules that make sense only to him (won't cook for you, because his rule in his head is that you cook. Makes no difference that you've been at work all day.) -not being able to read social cues (hanging around when you're with your friend) -being critical of measurable skills like driving -assuming that he is correct and others are wrong, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence (the way you have raised your son)
  • taking on projects that will garner external praise from you and others ( doing up the house/garden) but not interested in the background, invisible drudge work around running a household
  • either very 'good' with money (often controlling), or appallingly bad (doesn't surprise me that he is an accountant)

You haven't mentioned specifically these points but these would also be pointers for me:

-not able to take on board a general principle - will try to bring things back to a very specific point in an argument/discussion and be unable to get past a specific aspect in a discussion with you

  • promise change but can't keep it up over a sustained period of time
-doesn't learn from mistakes, so life can feel like Groundhog Day for the partner -likes things to be clear cut/black and white -oftens partners up with someone who is emotionally savvy and willing/able to do all the hard work (i.e. emotional stuff) in a relationship. That person becoming worn out/ground down over time.

Having said all of this, this is perhaps an explanation, but not an excuse for the way in which he has behaved.

I don't know if this helps Poppy or whether it muddies the water for you. I do hope that you are able to keep on gaining strength for yourself.

Bluebellforest1 · 14/09/2017 21:02

Great post white, I'm going to save it. Thanks

Poppysquad · 15/09/2017 08:04

Thank you white. That's certainly food for thought. And you're right there are aspects of my ExPs behaviour that do fit the pattern you've mentioned.

I can see the anxiety issues. There have been a number of times when he obviously thought I had some malicious agenda. Like me not clearing up suficiently meant I couldn't be arsed and that I was leaving it for him. Or misinterpreting my offer of taking his things to him being me telling him I did not want to see him.

I am just curios is there a good reference I can read? I would like to try and understand.

You know just at this moment. I actually feel a little sorry for him. And gaining strength for myself

OP posts:
Arkengarthdale · 15/09/2017 12:51

But of course it doesn't matter that he doesn't have a diagnosis of, well, anything. He still treats you poorly and behaves badly. Please don't take responsibility for his failings by trying to 'understand'. He's not bothered about finding out about his behaviour (because in his eyes his behaviour is perfectly fine), so why should you?

Please let him go. Please value yourself more. You're too nice to be with someone who manipulates you for his own ends. You have no defences against that sort of manipulation because of your kind, generous and straightforward nature. Let him go and make room in your head, your heart and your life for someone who is lovely, because you deserve it. You are actually better off in your own than with someone who mistreats you, even though the prospect is scary. Let him go

Arkengarthdale · 15/09/2017 12:52

*on your own

AcrossthePond55 · 15/09/2017 13:50

^^ What Ark said.

whitehandledkitchenknife · 15/09/2017 13:57

^^What Ark and Across said.
Don't get caught up in trying to understand. I offered these insights to answer your question. Don't let that derail your need to break free, physically and mentally.

blessedbrianblessed · 15/09/2017 16:26

Ditto Arkengarthdale AcrossthePond55 whitehandledkitchenknife

Even if he has Aspergers your Ex-DP's behaviour towards you over a four year period has caused you and your son much unhappiness. I know there have been many good bits for you too personally - great! But you would not have posted here in the first place if you were seriously doubting the future of your relationship due to the imbalance of good / bad bits. You know that this situation cannot go on as it was.

Even if you can get to the bottom of 'why' your Ex-DP behaves so towards you - Aspergers, Narcissist, Anti Social Personality Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, good old fashioned male, chauvinist pig / misogynist, any combination of these that takes your fancy - your insights won't change him.

Only he can change his own behaviour - and some personality disordered individuals are simply beyond change because it is beyond their neuropathology to even understand that they have a problem, because they're simply not hardwired that way. To them that's just how they are and everyone else has the problem - however much we might want change for them and for us.

And unless your Ex-DP genuinely understands that how he has behaved towards you, and especially towards your son, to date has been pretty poor, he'll never see any need to even think about changing.

And from what you have shared with us - he says I didn't even offer him a choice what we would have for tea - he doesn't seem to be anywhere near that level of understanding. I'm so sorry Poppy to say this, because I know it's not what you want to hear, and I truly wish it was different and he was better for you. But it is so.

And the more you try to accommodate him as he is, the more this will make him think he is just fine as he is now.

You've broken away. You're beginning to establish yourself as an independent person again. You are feeling a bit better about some things and doing more things that you want to do. Great.

You still miss him very much. Of course you do. This is super-hard. Been there, done that. Still feel the pain at times.

But please carry on being independent and regaining your self-confidence that he has chipped away at. How he reacts to you doing this will tell you everything about what he really thinks of you. A good man will respect you, listen to you, support you and wait for you.

whitehandledkitchenknife · 15/09/2017 16:38

^^What Blessed said.

NettleTea · 15/09/2017 17:14

yes, my DP has a very late (age 50) diagnosis of aspergers. But he is at least willing to consider this about himself, he has the awareness that he struggles and was willing to find out why.
He is basically a kind man, however I think he would really struggle to change quite alot of his behaviours or it would make him so unhappy and feel 'controlled'. But that doesnt make him unkind fundamentally.
We dont live together. I dont think we could. especially with the kids.
I am on the spectrum too, so I can see his points. I dont like to feel controlled either. We do well. But in our own slightly odd way.

But would your partner be open to something being wrong with him?

NettleTea · 15/09/2017 17:15

being with someone with ASD is not an easy ride. Not at all. It can be lonely and one sided. You may not find the assurances you need, the emotional support. It isnt for most people, to be honest.

Poppysquad · 15/09/2017 17:29

Thanks as ever for being there.

You're right. I have broken away, It's not easy as a lot of you know. But I am getting better. I sense it and others have around me have commented too.

I suppose I have been curious to understand whether my ExPs behaviour was deliberate and malicious or whether he didn't actually realise the impact of what he has said and done. For example, I find it hard to accept that him making moves to try and reconnect with me now are deliberately timed around my son leaving for university.

At the end of the day - I accept that it doesn't really make a difference as, as you've stated, the end game is that it has had a negative impact on me and my son. And I have spent a proportion of our time together together feeling unnerved and insecure, uncertain whether the next thing that would happen would be the one that actually triggered him leaving.

I have been sent a present to take on my trekking holiday, A beautiful little old fashioned tin with a message inside, With brave wings she flies. Tears. So thoughtful. And I hope that I am brave.

OP posts: