I feel so mixed up. Is this controlling?

[Poppysquad]

I am sorry, a bit of a saga.

I have been with my partner for four and a half years and we bought a house together about eighteen months ago. I have a son of 19, who lives with me, he is re-sitting his a levels at the moment. My partner has never had children.
Over our initial twelve months together he broke off our relationship twice. The first time we tried again, the second time it happened I did not contact him and left him alone and after time he came back.
There have been moments - when we took my son and a friend on holiday he told me that he would come home if the kids misbehaved. I ended up telling him that I couldn't guarantee their behaviour and I would rather go on my own. He was fine in the end.Since we have moved in probably every three months, he gets cross and threatens that he will leave. A number of these times are as a result of something my son has done e.g. allowed someone to sleep in his bed, i.e.the bed he brought into the house when we moved in, or using his speaker and letting it overheat. Once we reach this trigger there is a series of things that he says to me, like 'what do I do for him' - and I never support him and I don't do anything, I just come home from work and put the telly on. Just after Christmas we narrowed down the trigger for the rage as being the fact that I did not wipe down the work surfaces sufficiently.
It has built and built and just over a week ago, following a return from a weekend away, when my son wiped the table with bacterial spray and removed the wax and, so my partner says, allowed someone to sleep in his bed again, he just walked out of the house. Taking nothing with him. He just left. He stayed in a number of hotels for three nights. He called each day. Sometimes he seemed cross that I was not falling apart without him.
Then he came home! And here he is in the house, sleeping in the spare room, and I really don't know where I stand.
In terms of the controlling, I am expected to cook tea every night even though I work full time in a demanding job and my partner is at home and retired.
He likes to eat early so I feel under pressure to make sure I am home in time if I've stopped on my way home.
He is with me all the time. If a girl friend calls in, he just stays and joins in the conversation. I don't get anytime on my own.
He tuts and roles his eyes if I make a stupid mistake like dropping something,
He is critical of my driving and I have lost confidence in my ability to reverse completely.On the night before I went into hospital for a cancer biopsy with general anesthetic I knocked over a sleeper in the garden with my car. A silly accident and something I've done probably four times before. He had fixed this and I had broken it again. He was so cross with me that he said that he would stay with my during the biopsy, but he would not be here the following day. So, if the specialist had said that there could be an issue, he was saying he wouldn't be there. All because of a piece of wood. I was shocked.
He says that my son is a lazy s**t, who is totally inconsiderate. He is, to be fair, a typical self centred 19 year old. But he really is not a bad kid.
If I moan about how my son is behaving he tells me that basically it's my own fault as I had bought him up.
I don't know. This just sounds like a rant. I do know that I don't feel that things are right. I am worried that the nastiness could escalate. He is now in the house again, and I don't know what I want I happen. Do I want him to stay or not? Do I want a relationship with him or not?
Help ! Does anyone have any views?

Having said that he didn't really ask me lots and lots about my needs. However, he did acknowledge that maybe unfairly, he had left me to do all the cooking

Talk about throwing you a bone!!!! He'll do more cooking? Well, isn't that special. And he didn't ask you about your needs because he doesn't care!!

He definitely thought that I would fall apart without him, which I have not and will not, and he thought he could waltz back in.

Which proves it was all a manipulative ruse to control you and keep you under his thumb. What more do you need to know about the type of man he is?

I am concerned that maybe he wants the house, and I come with it

I think you are 100% spot on, and now he knows that he'll have to force you out rather than leave himself if he wants to keep it if you don't toe his line. Do you really want to put up with escalating shitty behaviour until you leave to keep your sanity?

he suggested that he couldn't be sure that if, say, he fell really ill, I would be there for him. Odd isn't it?

Not odd at all. What better way to keep someone trying to 'please' him and prove herself than to say that they aren't 'trustworthy'?

Please, please talk to your counselor. And your friends who said you were 'happier' are dead wrong. You weren't happier, you were keeping the peace by keeping your mouth shut and bending to his wishes. That's being compliant, not happy. Your only feelings of 'happiness' were the ones you had because he was happy and life was peaceful, not because you were. And I wonder what your friends would say about your son's 'happiness'?

I've not posted before but just read the full thread.

It is possible you did seem much happier with his for a while, given the situation with your xh and divorce. That doesn't make any of what's happening now acceptable though.

Perhaps the fact you've picked yourself up from where you were and made physical changes also meant he felt the need to ramp this stuff up. Outwardly supportive but scared you'll realise you deserve more.

He is being as supportive as possible to balance the real thing he is after, and that is for you to dump your son. And you already know this is a condition of his for you to be in a relationship with him. He knows you want to see your son without feeling guilty...But he is going to make you feel guilty all the same. That is who he is.

Imho, he may be concerned that you won't hang around to be his care giver if he becomes seriously ill because he knows he wouldn't be hanging around if you become seriously ill. (Also, because he thinks that way, he may assign the same thought process to to-do you operate off of his brain)((no place for your brain here)). He is planting this seed of doubt to provide a "justifiable" (in his way of thinking) reason for him to walk away, guilt free, if you ever do become seriously ill. Nothing you do will ever be good enough to erase that doubt. See how he set that up? Those goal posts will be on greased ball bearings to move again and again and again.

He is maintaining a strategy of in person contact to keep himself in your mind. Imho, this will continue until your d's leaves for uni. Then he will be in your face full time to wear you down and get you back to deluxe doormat/slave/his extra appendage status.

You have made a ton of progress. Imho, you really need to have the break up complete several weeks (months if possible) before your son leaves for uni. By that point you will need to have established no contact (house sale through realtor), and perhaps even change your email, phone numbers because that will be when he will presume he has an automatic avenue back.

You know when a couple breaks up and it's a shock to everyone because they seemed like the perfect couple? That's what your friends saw in you.

That perfect couple were far from perfect behind closed doors. But in public, the wife always seemed happy, because she was ashamed and embarrassed to admit that her husband belittled her, or hit her, or was having lots of affairs.
Or maybe she just didn't realise the relationship was wrong, because he was so good in some ways, so the occasional slap, or being shouted at because she got a pair of red knickers caught up in the whites wash and turned his shirts pink, she brought on herself, because after all, it WAS her fault. She should have been more careful.

Those things on your list that you said he doesn't tick are important things, and he won't change. He thinks you won't look after him if he falls ill because he won't look after you.

You're allowing him to reel you back in. Every time you have contact with him, he puts those doubts in your head. You need to go no contact. You NEED time without him so you can sort your head out, because if you don't, once your son has gone to uni, he'll be moving back in with you.

I am not sure that the counselling helped this evening. I suppose it must have done in some ways but I am still not clear.

The counsellor did say that the only way that I will know if things would work between is to try and see. She did warn me that things can escalate and get worse. It could be ok to begin with but could drift back to where we were.

She said that if she was counselling us as a couple she would suggest that we would have to draw a line under where we have been and start by thinking about the future and what we'd want. And that is because there have been things wrong in the relationship for some time, so we couldnt go back to a good time and try and recreate that.

I will sort myself out. Get my head around things. I am scared. Choosing to step out and truly be on my own when my son leaves.

And

I have had some great times with my ExP. Really good times. I believe that I have been a lot happier than when I was with my exH. I thought I'd found a man who really cared about me. I know that I have fallen into silent compliance as you describe. But that's not been all the time. My ExP is by no means as controlling and manipulative as some of the awful men you've described. On the other hand I still cannot believe that no matter how cross he was the night before I went into hospital, he treated me like he did. He did not think about my feelings at all.

Sorry. You can see my thoughts vacillating.

So what if you have been happier with him? Not a high bar really re your XH. You do no you could (and will be )happier on your own.

Your DS is moving on with his life, not leaving you. You will always have each other. Unless you choose to stay with this abuser, in which case he will go . You have indicated he is abusive and manipulative. There is no scale for for this. Less abusive is still abusive.

Please consider stepping away for at least a month to allow yourself clarity. Please contact WA for information and support. It can only be helpful.

I had some good times with my ex, too. When he wasn't abusing me and locking me in closets. Hell, women whose husbands/partners have killed them probably had some good times, too. But those good times don't mean shit compared to the bad times and the controlling behaviour.

You only have those good times because you've been compliant. When you haven't been compliant he's walked out or given you the silent treatment until you straighten up and fly right.

Counsellors are not in the business of telling you what to do. They are in the business of helping you see your options and helping you sound them out. Sure, getting back together is one of the 'options' but that doesn't mean the counselor is saying that is the best thing to do. That's not her job. Her job is to help you see that for yourself. The fact that she mentions escalation and 'drifting back' seems to say a lot. Could that be because you aren't seeing those possibilities.

As far as 'starting new and seeing what you want', well, he's already told you what he wants. He wants to move back under his own terms and for things to be the way he wants, the way they were. Oh yes, except that he'll do a bit more cooking.

I think you need to realize you are not actually scared of losing him. You are scared of being alone. If tomorrow you were to wake up to a life full of activities, friends popping in and out, and your son attending uni nearby I have a feeling you wouldn't miss him at all.

There is nothing scary or 'wrong' with being alone. It's better to be alone than wish you were. And I have a feeling if you take this man back that you will be wishing you were alone very soon. Your son certainly will be. It seems to me that you're forgetting him in all this.

Please know that my son and my relationship with him is paramount. This is a given. I couldn't bear not being part of his life. I would not consider doing anything that he was not happy with.

I have been looking at a number of single women I know. Weighing up life on my own.

As I've said before. I'll get there

Morning Poppy

((((Hugs)))) Tough times for you right now.

It's so difficult to see the wood from the trees sometimes and especially when you are in such a relationship.

Today, can I suggest that you stop thinking about what your Ex-DP wants, and instead, think about what you and your son want from your lives as you enter this next, new, exciting phase in his and your relationship.

When your son comes home from Uni - weekend visits, longer holidays, etc - how do you want that to feel and look like? Write it down.

And what do you want for the next 15-20 years of your life? Ageing from mid-50s to early 70s with all the opportunities (retirement/time) and challenges (health/fitness/end of working life/poss loss of dear friends) that that brings. Again, please write all this down.

Today is all about you.

There is no price on peace and self respect. I left two years ago, my dd is now 18 and ready to head to college. The last two years have been difficult but way way better than the previous 20. Without a shadow of a doubt. Friends used to warn me that being alone can be so lonely, but being lonely and on eggshells within a relationship is so much worse.

Don't be afraid to live your life on your own terms.

I'm sure he is. And I'm sorry (once again) for being so harsh.

It's just that one can see things so much more clearly from the outside looking in. And from having been in your position.

So what do you deserve? I think you deserve a life in which you are free to be you. A life in which you aren't tippy-toeing around trying to keep someone else happy. Especially since that someone uses his 'unhappiness' to keep you under his thumb.

Think about it. He has not left you alone for more than a hot minute. There have been calls, texts, visits based on false pretense. Why? Because he knows that if he truly leaves you alone you will rapidly realize exactly how blessed peace really feels. What a home, a day, a night without worry or fear of upsetting him is. He has not even respected you in that one little thing "give me space and time".

I am on my own again in the house. My son spends more time at his mates houses than he does at home these days. My friends tell me that their sons are very much the same. They all congregate in the house where the parents are away on holiday. That's what has happened when me and my ExP were away. It's not a party. They might just play on the XBox or watch a film. It's helping me get to used to him not being around when he leaves for uni.

I did have a slight panicky feeling when I was in the house on my own. I can't seem to just settle down and relax. I called the widow who I met at the BBQ and we are going to get together next Friday. We talked a bit about being on our own. She still spends most of her time out. She can't settle either. She's concerned though as she has been on her own for nearly two years. She's starting counselling this week.

The holiday firm called. They have a holiday on hold for me. I have to decide tomorrow if I'm booking a trecking holiday in October. I spoke with a friend who reckons I should just go for it. I think that I will regret not doing it, seeing if I can do this on my own. Regardless of what happens. So tomorrow the fuck it holiday is booked.

Hello, I have read all your posts poppy ...I agree with acrossthepond he has not left you alone.. every time you are with new people or friends, you perk up-then he comes along and you are back to being doubtful of yourself .. You have probably becoming the 'old' ( before he reduced you to the non confident person) version of yourself again which is making him feel more for you and reminding him of what he has walked away from ( yes he left you but I think if he hadn't you would have left him as you made first step by writing on here). Also there may be the house angle too- i.e. He misses the house ! He is thinking son will be gone soon / you are being more 'attractive'( in his terms) again and maybe he never actually planned to leave at all just give you a fright..
In my opinion- you are doing well/ you don't need him/ you will not turn into your alcoholic friend / you must try and stand firm and believe in yourself/ maybe ( I am not being flip) get a dog for company if you feel the house is empty when son goes to uni.. Your exdp is def the problem and needs to keep away.. good luck and I hope you book the oct holiday

I guess it goes to show how individual we all are. I've always loved being alone in my house, even when I had my own place before I re-married. The peace and quiet, no one making demands. Not having to do anything I don't feel like doing. No cooking, no cleaning if I don't want to. Being able to watch what I want on TV, listen to what I want on the radio, or just being able to turn them off and have nothing but silence. Bliss!

My cousin was more like you. But she learned to love the peace, too. It just took her awhile to realize how rare and lovely 'alone' can be.

Another night in the house on my own. My friend has just left so I've not spent the evening alone, just the night. My son is out at a friends yet again.

I am really pissed off with him tonight. He and I clashed badly. I know that he is stressed. It's A level results day tomorrow. But he has been hateful. He swore at me and told me he couldn't wait to leave. He has so little respect for me. I sound like a pathetic down trodden woman. My ExP has been controlling, my son treats me like shit unless he wants money and my step father thinks it's ok to make a pass at me. I feel crap.

I have booked the holiday. Then felt really unsure of myself and have since been seeking reassurance from my friends that I've done the right things. I AM PATHETIC

One of the things I noticed just before DS1 moved out was that he got 'lippy' with me and a bit defiant which was not like him at all. A friend of ours who is a counselor says that in many cases, where the child and parent have been very close, the child feels some sort of 'need' to distance themselves preparatory to being on their own and the only way they know to do it is to make an 'anger barrier'. They don't quite understand it and it makes them feel 'bad' so they act out. Your DS may be going through this same 'separation anxiety' type of thing. Your DS may have an added misplaced sense of guilt because here you are going through a break up and he's leaving you, too. Just give him his space and don't let him feel you are crowding or clinging to him. He still needs to do his chores, etc, but let him be with his mates.

oh poppysquad i'm so sorry. he sounds like he has narcissistic personality disorder, and also just generally abusive to you. i think you would be happier without him. i send you strength to do what you need to do. please stay safe.

sorry, for some reason i could only see older messages where you were deciding what to do. now i saw your recent ones.

you are not pathetic. i find it helpful sometimes (though difficult in practice most of the time to be honest!) to remember that we should treat ourselves as we would treat a dear friend. would you call your friend pathetic? i'm quite sure no. you are not pathetic. you are doing great. you have been put down for a long time, and it will take time and lots of kindness to yourself to get over this and to build yourself up again. perhaps your son doesn't realise how much his words/ actions will hurt you. i know when i was a teenager i would not have thought about what my bad behaviour would have felt like to my mum... teenagers are so selfish sometimes and i truly think they're sometimes wired like that. empathy hasn't fully developed yet, maybe? try to not take it too personally. i guess it's been a weird time for him too. and he is probably pretty upset and simply doesn't know how to deal with it. maybe you guys could do something fun together? even if it's just ordering pizza and watching a movie.

i admire you. you're strong.

I also wonder if your son is worried that once he's moved to uni, you'll get back with your ex and he'll move back in.

You're not pathetic. You're going through a tough time. You've spent decades thinking of, and doing things for, others. Now, you just have to think of yourself.
You've wanted to go on this holiday for ages, but were unable to because of others, now you can do it. It just feels odd thinking of yourself first, but you'll get used to it. As the advert says "You're worth it"!

Just think, when the house is sold and you get your own place, you can decorate it how YOU want! No having to compromise, no having to have pieces of furniture that you don't like, but it's there because the other person likes it.
When I split up with my last ex, I couldn't wait to get rid of the bloody cocktail cabinet that he loved! It was a mahogany reproduction piece and not my style at all, I hated it!

You won't have to come home early to cook dinner. You won't even have to cook dinner if you can't be arsed. Just have a bowl of cereal, or toast, or apple pie and ice cream even!

You can do this!

Thanks for being supportive. I do believe my son was stressed about his results today. Still no excuse for being so awful but I will have a quiet calm word with him today.

The good news is that he's done well in his A levels and he's off to His first choice Uni. Phew.

Congratulations Poppy and son. Brilliant! A massive achievement and something to really celebrate. Yey!!!

Thanks Blessed

Great news Poppy, your son will be testing boundaries and it's ok for you to be firm.I think young men need to learn to manage emotion as a default can be anger when really the underlying emotion was anxiety.Anger is usually a secondary emotion.

You have done brilliantly raising a young man off to Uni.I remember my eldest going, it was a tough time for me and ex stepped up his control as eldest had been a balancing person.
The holiday will be fantastic timing and a sign of your strength.You are not responsible for how people act around you, but you can decide not to accept poor behaviour.Its difficult with manipulative people as it's not so out in the open and it's only when looking back that you see a pattern.

Oh Poppy
I've just spent a couple of days with my adult sons and their partners. Middle son pointed out that it is 13 years since he got his A level results and hotfooted it off to Manchester. He had the time of his life, lived in halls even though we only lived a 30 minute train ride away, and did some serious growing up. I cried buckets the day I dropped him off, as I did 3 years later with youngest son.
It's a real turning point for them, and I agree with pp, the rudeness is about his anxieties and testing boundaries.

I am afraid that I will feel very emotional when my son leaves too. And I don't know who I'll to turn to for comfort. One of my friends who has been through this already I think. Across I think there maybe something in the advice your friend gave you about the anger barrier. Or maybe I'm just looking for a rationale for him just being hateful.

Can I ask - for those of you who have children who have gone to uni - do they really appreciate you more after they have left? Or is that just a myth?

Today my ExP told me that he didn't say that we could only live together in this house. So I misunderstood. He has said that it would be difficult to start again in a different house. He says that it could take months to sell this house and as our future together is by no means certain, we should put it on the market. I will post the envelope tomorrow.

My ExP has also told me that he is off to Spain for a week in September with the wife of the couple who are his only long standing friends. He is helping her look at houses as the couple are moving to Spain and need to find a small house to buy while they do up a big house they have already bought. Her husband is too busy with work to go with her to look at places. I've no right to say anything about this. He's not with me is he? I do feel a bit odd though. Is that wrong? He is spending a week with another woman, even though she is a friend in her own right and the wife of his friend. Why should I be bothered?