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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I feel so mixed up. Is this controlling?

801 replies

Poppysquad · 07/06/2017 23:10

I am sorry, a bit of a saga.

I have been with my partner for four and a half years and we bought a house together about eighteen months ago. I have a son of 19, who lives with me, he is re-sitting his a levels at the moment. My partner has never had children.
Over our initial twelve months together he broke off our relationship twice. The first time we tried again, the second time it happened I did not contact him and left him alone and after time he came back.
There have been moments - when we took my son and a friend on holiday he told me that he would come home if the kids misbehaved. I ended up telling him that I couldn't guarantee their behaviour and I would rather go on my own. He was fine in the end.Since we have moved in probably every three months, he gets cross and threatens that he will leave. A number of these times are as a result of something my son has done e.g. allowed someone to sleep in his bed, i.e.the bed he brought into the house when we moved in, or using his speaker and letting it overheat. Once we reach this trigger there is a series of things that he says to me, like 'what do I do for him' - and I never support him and I don't do anything, I just come home from work and put the telly on. Just after Christmas we narrowed down the trigger for the rage as being the fact that I did not wipe down the work surfaces sufficiently.
It has built and built and just over a week ago, following a return from a weekend away, when my son wiped the table with bacterial spray and removed the wax and, so my partner says, allowed someone to sleep in his bed again, he just walked out of the house. Taking nothing with him. He just left. He stayed in a number of hotels for three nights. He called each day. Sometimes he seemed cross that I was not falling apart without him.
Then he came home! And here he is in the house, sleeping in the spare room, and I really don't know where I stand.
In terms of the controlling, I am expected to cook tea every night even though I work full time in a demanding job and my partner is at home and retired.
He likes to eat early so I feel under pressure to make sure I am home in time if I've stopped on my way home.
He is with me all the time. If a girl friend calls in, he just stays and joins in the conversation. I don't get anytime on my own.
He tuts and roles his eyes if I make a stupid mistake like dropping something,
He is critical of my driving and I have lost confidence in my ability to reverse completely.On the night before I went into hospital for a cancer biopsy with general anesthetic I knocked over a sleeper in the garden with my car. A silly accident and something I've done probably four times before. He had fixed this and I had broken it again. He was so cross with me that he said that he would stay with my during the biopsy, but he would not be here the following day. So, if the specialist had said that there could be an issue, he was saying he wouldn't be there. All because of a piece of wood. I was shocked.
He says that my son is a lazy s**t, who is totally inconsiderate. He is, to be fair, a typical self centred 19 year old. But he really is not a bad kid.
If I moan about how my son is behaving he tells me that basically it's my own fault as I had bought him up.
I don't know. This just sounds like a rant. I do know that I don't feel that things are right. I am worried that the nastiness could escalate. He is now in the house again, and I don't know what I want I happen. Do I want him to stay or not? Do I want a relationship with him or not?
Help ! Does anyone have any views?

OP posts:
Motoko · 31/07/2017 10:55

Hello Poppy, I've been following your thread since the beginning.

You've done really well so far and I can understand why you're confused.

You are still somewhat under his control, otherwise you wouldn't have let him hold your hand. You're not strong enough yet to pull your hand away.

His offer of counselling comes with the condition that there is no mud slinging. If you're not allowed to discuss his faults, there is absolutely no point in going to counselling. It's an empty gesture. Anyway, the usual advice is not to have counselling with an abuser.

He thinks he's bent over backwards for you, so won't be willing to change, but he will expect you to change, to do as he wishes without complaint.

You need a complete break from him, as others have said. And like them, I also don't believe he will comply with your wishes and will find any excuse to contact you. He needs to make sure he's still at the front of your mind, to keep you weak and vulnerable, so you find it hard to stand up to him, as he wears you down.
You need him to take ALL of his stuff. He has a place to live, he has no reason to keep it at yours, other than to be able to say he desperately needs X that's still at yours, so he has a reason to see you. Don't be fobbed off with reasons why he can't take it all now.

I hope you're having a lovely time with your sister.

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 31/07/2017 14:02

You are breaking up with him. Whether he wants to give it another go or not is irrelevant. Whether he will give lip service to go to counselling (and his conditions are a distraction device) or not, is irrelevant.
Whether he loves you but can't live with you or not is irrelevant. (And his "not being able to live with you" reflects badly on him, not you.)
And that is a two way street- you can not live with him^ either.

Breaking up: you are no longer in a relationship with him, you do not owe him friendship even if you are his only friend in the whole wide world. (That is another golden manipulation- but his solitude is his circus and monkeys, nothing to do with you.)

You are dropping off his stuff. Park the car, get stuff out of car, get in car, drive away. You do not owe him nice-nice, you do not owe him any of your precious time, you do not owe him anything-certainly not anymore head space.
"No, I really don't have time now"
"That doesn't work for me"
"You have one week to get your stuff or you can pick it up from the charity shop"
"please don't touch me"

See how you need a detox period after each encounter? This is why you really need to disconnect entirely. The house sale is the only subject of discussion by email, only email...and you could even do that through a realtor. House "as is" no more popping over- that is over.
Koko, you have come a long way and I know it is hard. Just say "no".
Take care, have a good day.

AcrossthePond55 · 31/07/2017 19:04

Another thing to remember about 'seeking counseling'. If you go with 'no mud slinging' remember that counseling is about talking. Not just talking about the other person, but talking about oneself and one's own faults. And so you'd be baring your soul to a counselor in his presence whilst he diddled around the edges of his just enough to keep you talking. Do you realize the ammo you'd be giving him to hammer and manipulate you with? My God! It's the reason that people should never go to counseling sessions with an abusive spouse.

blessedbrianblessed · 31/07/2017 22:51

Hey Poppy - hang on in here. Keep posting. We're all with you. What you're going through is super-super tough. Your honesty is fantastic and it's this that will get you through this period of your life.

Wouldn't life be easy / boring if we all did the right thing all the time? Smile

However, having said that, for me here, the bottom line is that your Ex-DP is an utterly manipulative shit and you are a lovely, giving person. You just don't quite have the distance or perspective to be able to perceive quite what a shit he is yet. Hey, it took me years to even understand that I was in a metaphorical forest, let alone see the wood for the trees, and, as you know, at times I STILL hope for a fairytale ending. But with every day away from my horrible Ex-DP, and some pretty serious reflection on my part about my own hopes, behaviours, boundaries and background, I am seeing and understanding things now that even a few weeks ago I felt, but did not understand. So you're doing really, really well. (((hugs)))

socubatevira · 01/08/2017 01:52

RTFT! Wow! So many of you with such awful experiences, I have so much admiration for your strength to change things around for yourselves and your children.
@Poppy I truly feel for you, I do. The self doubt is awful, but please draw on your inner most reserves and stick to your guns. This whole tale smacks of manipulation. You MUST keep strong. ((((Hugs))))

Poppysquad · 01/08/2017 22:40

I've not been back in touch with my ExP since he revealed that he might be willing to go to counselling. My dear friend thinks I have called his bluff. He thought I'd crumble without him. And although I have been flakey I have not really revealed this to him and certainly have not begged him to come back. I did tell him, however, that I had a lot to think about following our conversation. And that's what I have been doing. Thinking. I've not reached any conclusions. I have thought that maybe I should have a criteria, a sort of minimum standard which, If breached, I call an end to things. I have thought do I even want to be in the same room as this man. I have thought that my family and close friends who I've spoken to would think that I was a nutter if I went back. I have thought about what my son would say and do. I've thought about some of the great times we had together. How my ExP could be really lovely and loving. I've thought and thought and am going round in circles.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 01/08/2017 22:50

"I have thought that maybe I should have a criteria, a sort of minimum standard which, If breached, I call an end to things."

No one should settle for minimum.

Poppysquad · 02/08/2017 07:33

Good point across . Not taken

OP posts:
Poppysquad · 02/08/2017 07:34

Sorry across I meant note taken.

OP posts:
Arkengarthdale · 02/08/2017 11:15

Family and close friends and us lot on here might think you'd be a nutter Grin

I'm so sorry to see you struggle with this. I wish he was nice all the time. I wish he treated you well. I wish he made you feel fabulous about yourself I wish you for you to realise he doesn't deserve your awesomeness

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 02/08/2017 12:18

Imho, another thing about the minimum standard idea is that this is a page out of his play book. It is why he "ends the relationship" and leaves you so many times.
But he doesn't end the relationship- he just uses that abandonment tool to punish you. That is very cruel and torturous, and just mean.

Why do you want to be with someone who does this to you? All the wonderful nice-nice in the world can not justify tolerating that treatment. The "lovely him" is a fake facade. You know this.

His repeated dynamic of breaking up with you -and- getting back together with you has perhaps subliminally trained you to believe this is how couples break up- the reunion is the next act in the script. A habit. You are now on your turn and he will just see if he hasn't trained you in this dynamic as well.
Angry Yes, Master Manipulator indeed, which goes a long way in explaining his "I'm alone in the world-boo hoo" issues.

So, you have your sheet of paper with the line down the middle. You friends, sister and family of origin, you son, work colleagues are on one side. He is alone on the other side. He wants you to choose his side- him alone. Just imho, wrong choice.

Thinking is good, keep thinking. Go with your gut: you've said it yourself: this may be a get back together just to break up again dance. Enough is enough.

Motoko · 02/08/2017 18:12

Why would you do that to your son? (Going back with your ex.)

AcrossthePond55 · 02/08/2017 19:23

This 'dip' in your confidence and understanding of the situation is normal. But you must fight it. Did you ever write out that list? These are the times and the reason for having it.

Right now self-deception is saying 'Was it really so bad?' and 'Oh but he can change!'. Yes, it was. And no, he won't. Right now fear of the unknown future is uppermost. But the future isn't truly unknown, is it? You've proven to yourself that you are a good person. And that there have people around you who love and value you. That means that you have a future with good times and good friends. And most importantly, a son who is happy and free to enjoy his young life, too. Neither of you will ever have to walk on eggshells, apologize for doing nothing wrong, or cater to someone who actually enjoys seeing you hurt, seeing you grovel.

Take a walk. Get out of the house and breathe the air. Shake those doubts and mistaken assumptions out of your head.

Poppysquad · 04/08/2017 21:24

Having a lovely time away with my son. Sight seeing and shopping. Just spending a bit of quality time together. Time that I know would have been more difficult to negotiate had I still been with my ExP.

My ExP has been in touch via email. He doesn't know that we are away this weeeknd. A pretty matter of fact email about checking the electricity meter etc but also saying that he does need to come back to the house, something to do with contacting HMRC. I'm not keen. No mention of persuing the line about counselling. No, I am sorry, I've made a mistake. Can we put things right. I had played it cool, not contacting him.

I've not told my son about the fact that my ExP has suggested that we could go to counselling. Which says a lot in itself. I may bring it up while we are away if it seems right. I don't want to spoil things.

I am just determined to enjoy the time my son and I have together. It feels really special.

OP posts:
MsPavlichenko · 04/08/2017 22:04

De lurking. You shouldn't need to negotiate time with your DS, other than re arrangements with each other. I 've been following the thread, and it seems clear to me that if you get back with XP you run the risk of permanently damaging your relationship with your DS. That would be enough for me, even without all the other aspects of his controlling behaviour. Of course you have shared good times together, abusers wouldn't be likely to form relationships if their behaviour was always like that, especially at the start.

People rarely change, and given all you've said, and how unwilling he is to face responsibility he won't. If he need to get back into the house, arrange for someone else to let him in and out. No need to advise him in advance.

I think the longer you away from him, and the less contact you have the more clearly you'll see things for how they really are.

AcrossthePond55 · 04/08/2017 22:31

There is no need to mention the counseling to your son because you know better than to go to counseling with exP. It would serve no purpose other than to give him ammo to further manipulate and abuse you with. Please do NOT do this! And I wouldn't weigh your son down with the thought that you would consider getting back with exP. I'm sure it's a huge relief to your son to have that man out of his life. Why worry him?

I agree with wondering why he has to go in the house to deal with HMRC, which I understand is similar to our IRS unless there are tax papers in the house. If you must respond I'd tell him that it is NOT convenient for him to enter the house but that you will be happy to put in the mail any papers he needs.

Poppysquad · 06/08/2017 21:15

Thanks. I've said nothing to my son. Point taken re even involving him. He's been having a great time and long that might that comtimue.

across the HMRC thing is, according to my understanding something to do with the security on the website and the fact they call and leave a code for you to use to access the website. I've said ok for him to come over next Saturday. My son will be out. I can ask ia neighbour to call in if I feel uncomfortable I've not told my ExP that I've put all his things in the spare room yet. I know that you are in favour of just throwing his stuff in bin bags.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 07/08/2017 04:57

I plead guilty to bin bagging.

I'd have your neighbour there regardless. It might help stifle any unpleasant or manipulative conversation.

OhWhatFuckeryIsThisNow · 07/08/2017 05:26

De lurking too, to say how well you are doing and please don't get sucked in by him promising the moon, he won't change.
Why does he need to come over to access email? Can't he use another one -library, phone, at a friends? Or couldn't he talk to hrmc and say he doesn't have access? Just take care op, I'd find myself very busy that day and "I have to be out by x o clock. Do what you need to do, then I must go." And have your neighbour there too. She/he can help him load his shite into his car.
Stay strong.

caringdenise009 · 07/08/2017 06:38

When HMRC send me a code,it's a text to my mobile. If it's to the landline tell him you can get the code and text it to him,and while he's on the site to change his preferences so that he gets the code directly in future. It sounds like you need to do the 30 days no contact.

Really glad you had a lovely time with your son,please don't risk your future with him for the tossers ex.

Hermonie2016 · 07/08/2017 14:01

I've just used the hmrc site and mobiles are usually registered.If it's landline then you can definitely tell him the number, it's just an additional layer of security and since his move is permanent he needs to change it to his number anyway.

I suspect it's a ruse however..really not that credible to have to come to your house to do this especially with a long drive.

He is working his way back but not making or agreeing his behaviour should change so you will be back to square 1.

Bluebellforest1 · 07/08/2017 15:31

Hi Poppy
As pp's have said re HMRC, I use the online service, you have a user ID and a password and then are sent a code by text to enable you to log in. I have logged in from my laptop at home and from my sons laptop at his house 150 miles away so no need at all for him to travel to you. He's playing games with you, don't engage.

Poppysquad · 08/08/2017 23:10

Thanks So íts a ruse. At least I know. I think I can cope with him being here. My son will be home from 12 onwards and I plan to have a neighbour on hand, even if it's somewhere for me to dash to when he leaves. I've sent my ExP through the draft of the house details. It's all getting serious now. I've suggested that we could finalise these on Saturday.

On a completely different note. I've had such a shitty evening. My step-father, (married to mum for 39 years, mum died two and half years ago), has just propositioned me. He been very supportive over the last few weeks, cutting my lawns and hedges. But I called round to his house tonight and he was drunk. He says that he loves me and he knows that it's not normal to have a relationship with your own step daughter...WTF!!!! I felt sick. He has seen that the ExP is off the scene and he's seized the opportunity. It is so sick it's untrue. With one hand I am dealing with a manipulative bastard and on the other I am beating off my step father. I had a short moment when I thought I cannot cope. My step father has been a bit creepy - even when I was a teenager. But this? I told him that it was not going to happen and that he needed to get a grip on his life. I really feel like selling the house and running the fuck away. Just running away. I don't know where to go or who to ask for support.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 09/08/2017 02:42

The dirty old bugger! I'm sorry this has been added to your load. It's just fucking unfair.

But you'll get through this, too. For now, just ignore the old goat.

Bluebellforest1 · 09/08/2017 09:25

Oh Poppy what dreadful behaviour from your step father, you really don't need that on top of dealing your EXP, house sale and son going to uni. Flowers

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