I feel so mixed up. Is this controlling?

[Poppysquad]

I am sorry, a bit of a saga.

I have been with my partner for four and a half years and we bought a house together about eighteen months ago. I have a son of 19, who lives with me, he is re-sitting his a levels at the moment. My partner has never had children.
Over our initial twelve months together he broke off our relationship twice. The first time we tried again, the second time it happened I did not contact him and left him alone and after time he came back.
There have been moments - when we took my son and a friend on holiday he told me that he would come home if the kids misbehaved. I ended up telling him that I couldn't guarantee their behaviour and I would rather go on my own. He was fine in the end.Since we have moved in probably every three months, he gets cross and threatens that he will leave. A number of these times are as a result of something my son has done e.g. allowed someone to sleep in his bed, i.e.the bed he brought into the house when we moved in, or using his speaker and letting it overheat. Once we reach this trigger there is a series of things that he says to me, like 'what do I do for him' - and I never support him and I don't do anything, I just come home from work and put the telly on. Just after Christmas we narrowed down the trigger for the rage as being the fact that I did not wipe down the work surfaces sufficiently.
It has built and built and just over a week ago, following a return from a weekend away, when my son wiped the table with bacterial spray and removed the wax and, so my partner says, allowed someone to sleep in his bed again, he just walked out of the house. Taking nothing with him. He just left. He stayed in a number of hotels for three nights. He called each day. Sometimes he seemed cross that I was not falling apart without him.
Then he came home! And here he is in the house, sleeping in the spare room, and I really don't know where I stand.
In terms of the controlling, I am expected to cook tea every night even though I work full time in a demanding job and my partner is at home and retired.
He likes to eat early so I feel under pressure to make sure I am home in time if I've stopped on my way home.
He is with me all the time. If a girl friend calls in, he just stays and joins in the conversation. I don't get anytime on my own.
He tuts and roles his eyes if I make a stupid mistake like dropping something,
He is critical of my driving and I have lost confidence in my ability to reverse completely.On the night before I went into hospital for a cancer biopsy with general anesthetic I knocked over a sleeper in the garden with my car. A silly accident and something I've done probably four times before. He had fixed this and I had broken it again. He was so cross with me that he said that he would stay with my during the biopsy, but he would not be here the following day. So, if the specialist had said that there could be an issue, he was saying he wouldn't be there. All because of a piece of wood. I was shocked.
He says that my son is a lazy s**t, who is totally inconsiderate. He is, to be fair, a typical self centred 19 year old. But he really is not a bad kid.
If I moan about how my son is behaving he tells me that basically it's my own fault as I had bought him up.
I don't know. This just sounds like a rant. I do know that I don't feel that things are right. I am worried that the nastiness could escalate. He is now in the house again, and I don't know what I want I happen. Do I want him to stay or not? Do I want a relationship with him or not?
Help ! Does anyone have any views?

andtheband

Another pleasant evening in with a friend. My "I don't think so " friend. It's times like this I feel I can do this. I just hope that there's more of these times.

Make them happen. You may have to steel yourself but it will be worth it.

Best wishes

Just read this thread. @Poppysquad you are so strong and have done so well. Keep going, you can do it x

This may sound counter-intuitive, but I think we have to accept that we love this person. Just as someone must accept that they have cancer. It doesn't mean you don't fight against it. It doesn't mean you give in to the feeling. It's simply an acknowledgement that it is there. I think once you accept it, then you can begin to either get rid of it, or build a wall around it.

The feeling will go away, truly it will. But in its own time, unfortunately. Just like any sickness, you just have to ride it out and not give in to it.

I think to try to deny the feeling, or put yourself down because you feel the feeling, is more destructive than saying "Ok self, I acknowledge that I still love him. But that doesn't mean that he is right or good for me. I doesn't mean I have to give in to that feeling. It simply means that I have to be aware of it so that I can consider its effect on my decisions and actions."

Throw the loser out! How dare he treat you like that, it's emotional abuse! Get rid of the baggage, you'll feel so much happier for it.

Glad you had a good evening Poppy, your friend sounds a good'un, good that you've got some support. Good advice from Across above.

Sorry too many "goods" there, it's too early to think properly!

Morning. I'm on my own at home, as usual these days. Thanks again for the support.

I have one huge thing going on in my head today that's not going away. I can't get rid of it, please bare with me. I am trying to understand myself. I am concerned.

My ExP asked why I didn't communicate with him about issues at home. For example, when I tried to clean up the effing mattress I didn't tell him. When I had a word with my son about not using my ExPs stuff My ExP said that I didn't tell him what was said. He says that as far as he was concerned I hadn't spoken to my son, because I didn't tell him what had gone on. My ExP said that this was another reason he was leaving.

I want to understand. I don't want to be that person. It doesn't feel like it's me, I don't know why I behaved like that. I really don't.

I have another session with the therapist today CBT to try and improve my self esteem.

Poppy, I've read this whole thread and you seem like a lovely person. your exP, on the other hand, does not. He wants you in your little corner doing as you're told like a biddable little woman. He's not kind and considerate, he's doling out his nice behaviour to try and train you into 100% compliance with his wishes.
I would suggest that you ignore all his communications apart from house sale stuff. Change your locks. So what if you didn't tell him about the mattress? It's just a mattress! He's trying to trip you up, get you doubting yourself in any way he can - he's looking for a chink in your armour so he can worm his way back. Don't give him that chance. Don't rise to him. The relationship is over, so no need to go over old ground. Your "behaviour" regarding issues at home and speaking - or not - about them with exP seems completely normal to me. You shouldn't have to answer to him, or anyone. He's left and good riddance! Be kind to yourself. He's not worth a single thought.
to you.

Poppy,

I can only speak from my own experience, but you probably didn't tell him because you knew it would cause further argument, you've been conditioned to keep quiet to keep the peace. He would have complained that you hadn't cleaned the mattress properly (I bet it's a relief that that effing mattress is gone!), he would have gone on and on about it, bringing it up weeks later.

I communicate as little as possible with my h, because if I get upset about something he tells me I'm over reacting, if I relay a conversation to him he tells me what I should have said. I don't even tell him now if I go to the GP, because it's really not worth the hassle.

Have a good day.

Morning Poppy

I think Bluebell has it spot on here. I can only speak from my own experience, but you probably didn't tell him because you knew it would cause further argument, you've been conditioned to keep quiet to keep the peace.

Again, referring to my own experiences, there were many things that over time I actually became afraid to raise with my Ex-DP because I knew from his accusatory reactions to previous such 'conversations' that only further argument would come of it.

Given your Ex-DP's inability to bond properly with your son and to see him as a real person with his own needs, as well as responsibilities, I can image him doing similar.

You're able to be candid with us here (ok, the cloak of anonymity does help), but you are clearly also to be candid with your friends and family. Again your Ex-DP is the creator of this issue - not you.

Have a lovely day

He is making you doubt yourself. Any normal husband would have asked you - 'did you speak to DS about using my things?' Or 'shall we talk to him together?' Instead he is making it your fault - it's not good enough that you did what he asked and addressed it with your DA, it's now your fault that you didn't relay back to exH efficiently enough. If not that he would be criticising the language you used with DS (not strict enough/too strict/taking his side) or it would have been the time you spoke to him (whilst DS is eating or hasn't just come home and is too distracted or has been relaxing at home and you've caught him unawares). Whatever you did would not have been good enough and ex just uses his imagination to figure out what your fault has been this time. You won't win against him and be good enough for him (in his eyes) no matter what you do.

Doubting yourself is so destructive, I was exactly the same. It's him, not you.

PPs above are exactly right so I won't bother to repeat.

Poppy, love. Please stop engaging with him. All you're doing when you do that it picking the scab off a wound that is trying desperately to heal. You need to realize that you will never get to the point with him where you are satisfied that you didn't do anything out of 'normal limits' of being a human being. And he will never say anything to make himself look bad or unreasonable, and he is BOTH.

None of us is perfect. We all make mistakes in our relationship. But only a real prick beats us over the head with them and uses them to make themselves look good and make it look like we are 100% at fault.

And remember that whenever you start to rehash things, he gets a real joy and a huge ego boost at pointing his finger at you and making you feel like shit. I'll say it again: HE ENJOYS IT!

Thanks as ever. It makes sense that I learnt to keep quiet. You're right there were quite a few things that, for a number of reasons, I'd not mention or find very difficult to bring up. I always struggled to talk about holidays with him. I remember feeling distinctly uncomfortable. blluebell I am so sorry that you are in a relationship where you still feel like this.

I called in to a friends house for an update tonight. She has recently been taken into hospital. I discovered that her problem is her alcoholism. I know her reasonably well and I had never realised. She has been an excessively heavy drinker for years, or so her children told me tonight, and she is bulimic. They are treating the symptoms at the moment. She has been very ill. Her children say that she drinks more heavily when stressed. She has recently been divorced and her youngest left for uni last September, so she has been in her house alone. It's a very sad situation. I am so wary. I don't want to slip into this. I don't want this to be my life. Her poor children are only 21 and 19 and they are trying to sort out their mums care in hospital. They don't have a lot of support.

And namechanger you are so right. I did hear how, even when I tried to sort things out, he had a go about how I did it, when, the circumstances etc etc. You were spot on. Thank you for the reminder.

Hi Poppy

I also used to struggle to talk to my Ex-DP about holidays and time away from work. I knew I would face resistance when I articulated what I wanted, and when I did do so, I found it difficult to get him to see that that was what I wanted and that these things were important to me. He would give in, sometimes, and he would compromise sometimes. But it was done grudgingly and always at the later cost to me of these concessions being brought up and used against me somehow during subsequent arguments. Looking back, it was really unpleasant and took a lot of the joy out of what should have been lovely times.

Work, on the other hand, provided a structure of sorts to my day, and one within which I could sneak the odd lunchtime or afterwork tea-time phone call or quick visit to a friend. It was so sad that I felt I could only maintain contact with some people in this way, but that was my reality, rightly or wrongly. And I wonder if you have experienced similar?

My Ex-DP even used to get narked even if I had a phone call from a friend, or made one to a friend, during 'his' time ie: time after work of an evening, or during weekends. He would say that they were 'nobodies invading his privacy'. And yet, as I would say to him, they were not 'nobodies' to me. It was crackers. Again, it was that horrible sense of entitlement that he had - I am the man, I work, therefore I come first in everything. And yet, I work too in a demanding job, and I have children to care for, and I have an elderly parent to care for. Where was the 'me time' for me in all that? I wonder how much real 'me time' you had with your Ex-DP?

Hi blessed like you my main 'me time' has been work. Other than that I went to my diet class once a week although I rarely stayed, book club once a month and I even tried to book hair cuts and beauticians appointments at times that didn't interfere.

I called friends from my car on my way home. I once left work early to sneak off to a friends house and then get home at the normal time, so that my ExP didn't know. I just wanted to talk about my son, who was being a revolting teenager at the time, with a mother of a son the same age. If I had gone after work my ExP would have come too and he already thought that my son was a complete wastrel. This was one event that led the counsellor to disclose that she thought I was being controlled.

If I did have a long call with friends in the evening, he never seemed that happy, although he was never as nasty as your ExP seems to have been.

I recall one new year when I had a lot of holidays left but really did not want to fly anywhere. I'd been away a lot with work. He was really miserable about me suggesting that we go to Dorset and got in a few nasty digs about it. Which really cheered me up ?!? The stupid old bugger enjoyed it in the end. We did some really memorable things and he liked to tell others the stories about it afterwards. It was just that it was my choice, not his.

My Ex-DP even used to get narked even if I had a phone call from a friend, or made one to a friend, during 'his' time ie: time after work of an evening, or during weekends. He would say that they were 'nobodies invading his privacy'.

I actually gasped out loud at reading this. Exactly the same words my ex used - my friends were all 'nobodies'

Its a method to control you by expressing disapproval of your friends, so you become more isolated and more reliant on him.

Poppy, I left 2.5 years ago with 3 very young children. It is not a bed of roses, but I met with an old schoolfriend today, and we went for lunch and we laughed and went for a walk in the rain. The mere thought of doing this when married seemed impossible, but it's a natural, human right. You end up thinking you deserve nothing, but you do.

Simple and free things like love, respect, friendship and pleasurable holidays with people you love, these are the things that make us as human beings feel happy. You should not have to explain or cajole him into doing these.

Next week I am holidaying with my best friend, and it's a million times less stressful then planning a holiday with a joy-sucking partner. You can do this Poppy.

Please also think about doing the Freedom Programme, it really opened my eyes to ex's tactics.

Hi namechanger you're not the only person to recommend the Freedom Programme. I've seen some of the materials but have not worked through it. I can definitely see traits of my ExP in a number of the "'perpetrators". I can also see dome of the ways that he has been lovely too.

I've come away from counselling tonight really confused. At one point the counsellor suggested that maybe my ExP and I might love each other but not be able to live together. This threw me. We can't live togther because he wants his own way and if it's not going his way he sulked and threatened to leave.

It doesn't sound like your counsellor is a specialist in abusive relationships, are they more of a Relate type/relationship fixing counsellor? Perhaps you would benefit from one who can focus on healing you, instead of fixing your relationship?

Don't feel obligated to stay with a counsellor if you feel they are not right for you - I did that as well and stayed for 14 weeks of sessions, out of politeness. She really messed with my head and convinced me my husband was abusive because I didn't stand up to him enough, and I bought it on myself.

Your counsellor surely has to acknowledge that loving each other requires a level of mutual respect? He doesn't sound like he respects you at all.

I did the Freedom Programme in person, not online or through the book, and I highly recommend doing it in person if you can. Its shocking how many lovely, professional, articulate women suffer with abusive arseholes for partners. Also found it very useful to read Lundy Bancroft 'Why does he do that?'

I think your counselor is trying to tell you the same thing I have been saying. Just because you 'love' someone it doesn't mean that they are right for you. Not all 'love' is good. Or healthy.

Yes namechager she has been a Relate counsellor previously. Other than that one comments I've been really happy with our sessions. I think that you are probably right Across

Agree with Across Acknowledging your love for your Ex-DP is important, as is acknowledging that it is has not led to a healthy relationship.

Namechanger2015 Isn't it interesting how similar many of these men appear to be? The language they use. Their behaviours and expectations. Huge respect for you and what you have achieved and I love what you say here: Simple and free things like love, respect, friendship and pleasurable holidays with people you love, these are the things that make us as human beings feel happy. You should not have to explain or cajole him into doing these. That is so, so true.

Poppy One of the areas of my own behaviour which I am looking at is a tendency I have to feel responsible for 'fixing' or 'repairing' someone to whom I am close and who is 'broken'. The roots of this lie in my childhood and my challenge is to work out now how to essentially re-programme myself, given that I still have to maintain a half-decent relationship with the person who is responsible for creating this in me in the first place (my mother). I wonder if your counsellor has broached anything like this with you? May not be relevant, of course, but thought I would mention it.

Have a lovely day

Poppy when are you going to get angry? Angry at how HE is making you feel, at his belittling you, at his behaviour towards your son, at his constant mind games? Get angry! How dare he treat you like this?!!

Harness this anger and let it propel you to get out of his clutches.

You have done nothing to warrant this behaviour from him. Nothing! You are a good person, loved by your children and your friends. You do not need someone like this man in your life, who drains you of your carefree spirit and happiness. He has robbed you of this time you could have had with your son before he went to uni. The bastard!

You couldn't have known that this was the man he truly is. He hid it from you until he had you firmly in his clutches, then he felt secure to unleash his true self. You have tried to make the relationship work, but it was never going to work as HE is unable to exist in any normal, healthy relationship, while you will never flourish in a relationship with him.

I suspect the reason he wanted to hear about what you said/son said regarding "mattress-gate" was because he wanted the "thrill" of the drama of it all, watching the severing of ties between mother and son, wanting you to come to "his" side and have the "us versus son" environment, taking delight in your son getting into trouble. Do not be fooled by the dear, sweet, helpful things he is doing - DIY, emailing etc - as these are things which are designed to make you see what a "good thing" you had and let slip away. You did not "come to heel" when it was expected, you were never going to be able to do enough/be enough no matter what. No one will ever be able to. He wanted his dinner early, so you had to come home sharpish to cook it - that screams control. Was he unable to work the oven? The long drawn out moving his stuff out is also designed to twist the knife in you, so he derives pleasure from your pain. He wants to see you miserable, wants you to beg him to stay, wants to see your tears, wants to hear you say you'll change/was your fault/you'll try harder, he wants to see you collapse and suffer without him - just look (and get angry) at how he treated you around the time of your biopsy. This is a horrible, manipulative, sick man.

Please, dear Poppy, understand that NONE of this was your fault. The only thing you can do now is to distance yourself from him. Stop responding to his "caring" emails as they are anything but genuine. Be factual, show no emotion with him at all because he will see any hint of emotion as a door back in to continue his little games. If he phones you at work, don't answer. Start being unavailable to him. Pack all his stuff in the spare room and shut the door. Tell him to take his stuff quickly because there is no need to keep taking bits and pieces - he's keeping a foothold in your life by doing this. And sell the house.

He has no right to treat you like this; you are not a participant in his cat-and-mouse game any more. YOU deserve to be treated with love, respect, kindness - none of these things will be forthcoming with your ex. He is the one with the problem(s), not you.

Great stuff TheDayIBroke

Thank you Arkengarthdale.

Poppy - you are precious and loved by those that genuinely care about you.

This man doesn't truly love you, or value you. As he said to you, don't go by his words, but by his actions.