I feel so mixed up. Is this controlling?

[Poppysquad]

I am sorry, a bit of a saga.

I have been with my partner for four and a half years and we bought a house together about eighteen months ago. I have a son of 19, who lives with me, he is re-sitting his a levels at the moment. My partner has never had children.
Over our initial twelve months together he broke off our relationship twice. The first time we tried again, the second time it happened I did not contact him and left him alone and after time he came back.
There have been moments - when we took my son and a friend on holiday he told me that he would come home if the kids misbehaved. I ended up telling him that I couldn't guarantee their behaviour and I would rather go on my own. He was fine in the end.Since we have moved in probably every three months, he gets cross and threatens that he will leave. A number of these times are as a result of something my son has done e.g. allowed someone to sleep in his bed, i.e.the bed he brought into the house when we moved in, or using his speaker and letting it overheat. Once we reach this trigger there is a series of things that he says to me, like 'what do I do for him' - and I never support him and I don't do anything, I just come home from work and put the telly on. Just after Christmas we narrowed down the trigger for the rage as being the fact that I did not wipe down the work surfaces sufficiently.
It has built and built and just over a week ago, following a return from a weekend away, when my son wiped the table with bacterial spray and removed the wax and, so my partner says, allowed someone to sleep in his bed again, he just walked out of the house. Taking nothing with him. He just left. He stayed in a number of hotels for three nights. He called each day. Sometimes he seemed cross that I was not falling apart without him.
Then he came home! And here he is in the house, sleeping in the spare room, and I really don't know where I stand.
In terms of the controlling, I am expected to cook tea every night even though I work full time in a demanding job and my partner is at home and retired.
He likes to eat early so I feel under pressure to make sure I am home in time if I've stopped on my way home.
He is with me all the time. If a girl friend calls in, he just stays and joins in the conversation. I don't get anytime on my own.
He tuts and roles his eyes if I make a stupid mistake like dropping something,
He is critical of my driving and I have lost confidence in my ability to reverse completely.On the night before I went into hospital for a cancer biopsy with general anesthetic I knocked over a sleeper in the garden with my car. A silly accident and something I've done probably four times before. He had fixed this and I had broken it again. He was so cross with me that he said that he would stay with my during the biopsy, but he would not be here the following day. So, if the specialist had said that there could be an issue, he was saying he wouldn't be there. All because of a piece of wood. I was shocked.
He says that my son is a lazy s**t, who is totally inconsiderate. He is, to be fair, a typical self centred 19 year old. But he really is not a bad kid.
If I moan about how my son is behaving he tells me that basically it's my own fault as I had bought him up.
I don't know. This just sounds like a rant. I do know that I don't feel that things are right. I am worried that the nastiness could escalate. He is now in the house again, and I don't know what I want I happen. Do I want him to stay or not? Do I want a relationship with him or not?
Help ! Does anyone have any views?

My ExP has emailed this morning saying that it was good to see me. He says that he knows its a difficult time for both of us but if I want to 'pop in' and see him in his new home, I should feel free to do so. He says that he still cares - and signs off with an x.

Back to feeling mixed up. It all sounds so kind and rational.

What is the message? He's looking after me? He's lonely? I don't think he wants to be with me. He said last night that moving out for him was a big deal. He's not done this on a whim. Things were so bad for him that this was the only option. He didn't say it, but again the message is that he doesn't think I'm good enough to live with.

Hi Poppy, I've been lurking for a while.
I think he's just jerking the string to be honest, trying to dangle the bait (nice life with him), so that you'll be reeled back in if he decides he wants you.
To be honest, I think the sooner you cut ties with him, the better. Selling the house as soon as possible would be the best thing for you really, because then he'll have nothing "on you", and no excuse to keep coming over, and you can actually move on and find a nice man who deserves you!
All the best (I know this is frowned on on here, but )

Hi Poppy

Huge well done for getting through your meeting with your Ex-DP yesterday with such courage and insight. It has obviously not been easy for you - and the 'fantasy' outcome that I am sure you would love (and that I still stupidly hope for, at times, with my Ex-DP) ie: I'm sorry, I can see how I have been horrible to you, I will try to change with your support, let's give it another go, etc etc etc - has not materialised.

You say He didn't say it, but again the message is that he doesn't think I'm good enough to live with. I have to say that this is your interpretation of events and one which you arrive at because he has been so critical of you for such a long time, that you automatically blame yourself and your 'inadequacies' for the failure of this relationship. Another interpretation is 'I don't want to live with you because the relationship is not what I want.' And this is fundamentally different from 'you're not good enough.'

I've come to realise that what my Ex-DP wants is not what I want, which was a cause of a deal of conflict. That's very different from me being 'good enough' for him. I too, had ten tonnes of negativity and criticism heaped upon me by him, when I would not, or could not, do as he wished. And until very recently, and moving out of the home we shared, and having time and space away from him to start to regain a healthier emotional equilibrium, I too have blamed myself for the failure of our relationship.

Also, what you should also be asking yourself, in my view, is 'Is he good enough for me?' And, I think you know the answer to that one.

Tears again Blessed

So that I understand fully, The relationship my ExP wants is one where I comply with his wishes? Parent as he thinks I should. Do what he wants me to do ie tell my son he can't stay in the house and stop my son from using my ExPs stuff. And behave as he expects me to. And I have not complied?

And he doesn't meet my needs because he stifles me and I feel restricted. He doesn't make any effort with my son. He doesn't actually seem to find me attractive. He gets angry and shouts and is nasty and says that its only when he shouts its the only time that I'll listen.

Do you know what? I've never really told him that. And even if I did, I don't think that it would make any difference.

It wouldn't make any difference at all, because he's not interested in what you want or think or feel, only in what he wants and thinks and feels.

He might not think you're good enough for him to live with but if he does, so what? He's treated you appallingly and you deserve so much better than him. He's moved out. That's good. It might not feel like it but it is good. Celebrate in every little way you can. Don't invite him back to your place ever again. You've done really well, and things will get better, they will.

It seems to be so Poppy. Space and time away from the constant narrative of 'you are not good enough, you need to change, you are ruining this' has allowed you to see this.

Do you want a relationship like that? Much as I loved the 'good bits' of my Ex-DP, I didn't. He wouldn't, or couldn't change - who knows which? And so painful as it was I am so glad that I moved on from that relationship because, exactly as you say, it was stifling me, didn't meet my needs, and, was having a detrimental effect on other key relationships in my life.

You might want to tell him what you've just told us, when you are ready to do so, if only to assert yourself in ways that you have not done so already. I'd suggest waiting until you feel really calm and detached though and probably best done via email rather than face to face.

He'll probably react by saying that the issues were down to your 'faults', but, clearly, while no-one is perfect, the real issue here are down to his rigidity, ridiculous demands on your time and energy, lack of empathy, sense of entitlement, inability to reflect, inability to learn, inability to grow, inability to compromise and narcissistic tendency to blame everyone else for things that don't go to plan in his life.

You are doing so well Poppy Thousands of people are stuck in abusive relationships and the courage of people like yourself to make these changes gives other people such hope.

Poppy, I can't believe how similar these men are..I got the same speech "what am I getting out of this relationship"

It's a horrible attitude, counting score and designed to make you feel you need to try harder.I gave up loads to make my marriage work, he had whatever freedom he wanted and he persued his career whatever the impact to homelife.
However he didn't get 100% of his way, I wanted compromises on decisions..this was too much for him.
I don't think you will ever be able to relate to him as you don't have the same mindset.

I am further down the line and it's getting easier, I am less upset and more accepting of the need to end the marriage.

Poppy you are doing amazingly well, I was in your situation and left 3 years ago with my children. What he is doing now is partly "future-faking" please have a google about it.

I'm astounded at how similar these horrible men all are - they all appear to read from the same script and will (deliberately) do what he can to tempt you back. As long as you are aware of what he is up to you will be fine, you sound like you are making great strides. The wobbles are very normal, please keep talking them through. We are listening and we are with you.

So, it's not just me, a number of you have had 'What am I getting out of this relationship?' I found it crushing to begin with. I did end up getting irritated by it as I heard it a number of times. He'd sigh and imply that he was leaving, again. I would say to him you're gettting nothing, we established that last time.

I also used to hear - how do you support me? I'd then get a long list of things that my ExP had done to support me, which were true, and then I'd get again ''How have you supported me?'. I'd ask how could I support him? And he told me, I shouldn't have to ask, I should know. So, again, try harder. What you're doing now is not good enough.

Thanks Namechanger I checked out future faking. I think you're right there is an element of this going on.

Flower show today with one of my good friends - the tickets were a Christmas present from my thoughtful ExP. Then off to my cousins house tonight and a day out with her and her children tomorrow. And that's my weekend. Keeping busy while my son is away.

Morning Poppy
I used to get the "what do I get out of this relationship" drivel. My h sometimes makes snide comments, usually in front of other people, implying that he is so supportive, the main breadwinner, and I do nothing. I usually reply that we are so very very lucky to have a cleaner, cook, laundress, shopper, gardener, dog walker - oh that's me!
Enjoy your weekend and your freedom.

Oh Poppy poor you! He really has done a number on you. I agree wholeheartedly with blessed that this man is not good enough for you, not the other way round! Also sneaking into my mind is the possibility of his keeping you dangling just until he finds another new partner, then blame you for pushing him into it because you just weren't quite trying hard enough, or taking his needs into account enough, or some other nonsense.

Change your house. Move your furniture round. Change the photos you have out on display. Have your hair and nails done. Buy a gorgeous new dress in a colour that looks amazing on you but that you've not worn before. You are good enough!

Poppy I've been following this and I am so angry for you. Your ExP sounds so entitled, he thinks he can keep you dangling.

You are doing really well (well done on using the tickets for you and a friend rather than invite him along as implied). I think the sooner all his crap is out of the house and it's sold (unless you want to/can afford to keep it?) the better, then you never need to see him again.

It's an emotional shell game. They put the pea under one of the shells and move them around and around. Try as you might you can never guess where the pea is! But you try over and over and over because they keep shilling you in with 'nice behaviour' and 'if only you would XX, I would YY'. You think if you play that game one more time you'll pick the shell with the pea and win the jackpot. But you'll never actually win, because they've swept the pea into their hand when you weren't looking.

When they give you the list of 'what they've done for you', it's a good idea to really scrutinize that list carefully. You'll find that the majority of the things they've done 'for you' are actually things they've done to make you do things for them. The rest are things you didn't really want to have done, but you felt you should be grateful. Like someone painting your living room putrid pink. You hate it but when they say "But I did it for youuuuuuu!!" in 'that' voice you end up saying to yourself "I really hate the colour but I'll suck it up because they were doing it to 'be nice'. I guess I should be grateful they did the painting at all."

If you think of the things that you really wish they'd do for you, you'll find they've actually done very little of that list!

Really good post AcrossthePond. I couldn't agree more!

Thanks again for your supportive posts. Across you are right. On my list would have been: Making an effort and exchanging a few civil words with my son, cooking tea every now and then, actually fancying me a bit.

I am still hearing from my ExP via email. He told me that he had spent yesterday traveling to the crematorium where his parents ashes are scattered. It was their wedding anniversary. It must have been at least hours drive there and four hours back.

I guess until he meets someone new he may need you to be his friend..its a sign of his loneliness.He will be missing you.

It would have been so much more amicable if he had been able to say "I'm difficult to live with, perhaps I've been alone too long and never having had children I'm not tolerant of other peoples children".Instead he heaped on blame and criticised you and your son.

My stbxh is so similar and has to be blameless/must win.Its something I will watch for if I ever have another relationship, the ability to reflect on their own behaviour and take responsibility.

Good point Hermonie I expect he is lonely. And I do feel for him. He really does not have anyone. Although the fact that he may not be tolerant of other peoples children etc etc does not excuse the fact that he has at times been so nasty.

Hermonie is absolutely spot on. He's going to keep dangling around you, demanding your 'friendship' and attention until he hooks someone new. Then he will be out of your life like a shot and you'll be left wondering what the hell happened. Another reason to 'beat him to the punch' and get him out of your life first. Don't respond to personal emails or texts. Don't answer his calls, and only return a call if he leaves a message that is 'business' (i.e. the house). If he gets hold of you somehow and he makes a personal remark (like going to the crematorium on his parent's anniversary) you greet it with absolute silence. Don't give him the attention he craves.

He probably did the same to the other women he had failed relationships with!

He told me that he had spent yesterday traveling to the crematorium where his parents ashes are scattered. It was their wedding anniversary. It must have been at least hours drive there and four hours back

I find this very difficult to believe. More likely it's the sob story of a master manipulator to elicit your attention and concern.

Actually Keepon I really think he did do this. He's talked about doing it previously and we did call in to the crematorium last year when we were on holiday in the area. It's a helluva long way to go.

It has really upset me and I do feel for him. I can feel my mood and resolve dipping. Back to self criticism. It's him that left me. It's him that can't bare living with me and my son.

Then again - it's him that was so insensitive before my biopsy and him that I am pretty sure lied about my son to put him in a bad light.

He's doing it deliberately to keep you emotionally engaged. Because you're a nice person, you'll naturally want to support someone you care for when they are going through 'difficult moments'. So he's putting himself through 'difficult moments' and telling you about them so he can manipulate your emotions. And it's working.

Can't remember who said upthread about only talking about 'business' instead of emotions but they are spot on. He can't console or comfort you, he's the one who hurt you.

Best wishes, you really are worth so much more that this crappy poor manipulative bullshit behaviour. Sorry I'm getting cross with him!

It's because you are empathic and caring that you have these emotions, but he doesn't.As you say he can be nasty (which maybe a choice or perhaps just how he is wired).My stbxh is similar and I don't know if he's highly manipulative or personality disordered...whatever the cause I've realised he isn't capable of really loving anyone.

My empathy is a strength when around
good people but it's a weakness when with ex.The same applies to you.He will take whatever kindness you offer but give back, if and when it suits him.Your needs are secondary.His offer of going to the flower show was "dressed up" but really the benefit was for him.You went with a friend and he was alone..he knew that would be the case but does loneliness encourage him to change his behaviour?

Is he writing that he now realises what a gift you were and how he wishes he could change so that you would consider living with him again? No, he gives you a tale that he knows will get your compassion flowing.He knows you and your buttons.

I just think he's not capable of "normal"relationships..science may show why if brain scans become routine at the start of relationships!

My stbxh in a rare moment of reflection did say he would remain single, although still heaps all the blame on me, as I think he knows deep down that he can't do "love".

I don't know if I've suggested this yet (I have on other threads) but perhaps you need to write 'The List'.

Sit down and write down a list of the most hurtful things he's said, the worst times he walked out on you, the most selfish things he's done, the way he's treated and lied about your son.

Then fold that list up as small as you can and carry it around with you, in a pocket, tucked in your bra, in your shoe. And whenever you feel yourself weaken or being drawn in again, touch that list and remember its contents or take it out and read it.

It may sound silly, but it works. It's so easy to get caught up in the 'sympathy' of the moment as they work their 'magic' on our heads. You can't think of why they are bad for you, all you can think about is that they 'need you' or they can be 'so sweet'. That list is a real, concrete reminder of how things got to this pass and why you do NOT need that man in your lives (yours and DS's).

Thank you Across that's sound advice. I have a mental list of the miserable things he has said about me. I remember how I felt when I was wary about going home. And I recall the lies about my son - those that I am pretty certain about. But I had not committed these to paper. I have started.

The trouble I have is, as you describe, balancing these with sense of still loving the man and being drawn in.

And, to be honest, there isn't even an option at the end of being drawn in. It's possibly just being drawn in to be dumped again.

And, to be honest, there isn't even an option at the end of being drawn in. It's possibly just being drawn in to be dumped again.
This rather sums up the history with him, doesn't it?

Regarding his travel quest to the crematorium, I agree with the response of silence. It has absolutely nothing to do with you.
Or a completely objective (unempathetic) response that it is too bad he didn't choose to move closer to it. Maybe he should consider that on his next move. Think how convenient it would be for holiday, birthday, and anniversary visits. It would bring him so much more comfort to be closer that it really does make one wonder why he chose to be so far away in the first place. On and on in a similar 10,000 word vein.