I feel so mixed up. Is this controlling?

[Poppysquad]

I am sorry, a bit of a saga.

I have been with my partner for four and a half years and we bought a house together about eighteen months ago. I have a son of 19, who lives with me, he is re-sitting his a levels at the moment. My partner has never had children.
Over our initial twelve months together he broke off our relationship twice. The first time we tried again, the second time it happened I did not contact him and left him alone and after time he came back.
There have been moments - when we took my son and a friend on holiday he told me that he would come home if the kids misbehaved. I ended up telling him that I couldn't guarantee their behaviour and I would rather go on my own. He was fine in the end.Since we have moved in probably every three months, he gets cross and threatens that he will leave. A number of these times are as a result of something my son has done e.g. allowed someone to sleep in his bed, i.e.the bed he brought into the house when we moved in, or using his speaker and letting it overheat. Once we reach this trigger there is a series of things that he says to me, like 'what do I do for him' - and I never support him and I don't do anything, I just come home from work and put the telly on. Just after Christmas we narrowed down the trigger for the rage as being the fact that I did not wipe down the work surfaces sufficiently.
It has built and built and just over a week ago, following a return from a weekend away, when my son wiped the table with bacterial spray and removed the wax and, so my partner says, allowed someone to sleep in his bed again, he just walked out of the house. Taking nothing with him. He just left. He stayed in a number of hotels for three nights. He called each day. Sometimes he seemed cross that I was not falling apart without him.
Then he came home! And here he is in the house, sleeping in the spare room, and I really don't know where I stand.
In terms of the controlling, I am expected to cook tea every night even though I work full time in a demanding job and my partner is at home and retired.
He likes to eat early so I feel under pressure to make sure I am home in time if I've stopped on my way home.
He is with me all the time. If a girl friend calls in, he just stays and joins in the conversation. I don't get anytime on my own.
He tuts and roles his eyes if I make a stupid mistake like dropping something,
He is critical of my driving and I have lost confidence in my ability to reverse completely.On the night before I went into hospital for a cancer biopsy with general anesthetic I knocked over a sleeper in the garden with my car. A silly accident and something I've done probably four times before. He had fixed this and I had broken it again. He was so cross with me that he said that he would stay with my during the biopsy, but he would not be here the following day. So, if the specialist had said that there could be an issue, he was saying he wouldn't be there. All because of a piece of wood. I was shocked.
He says that my son is a lazy s**t, who is totally inconsiderate. He is, to be fair, a typical self centred 19 year old. But he really is not a bad kid.
If I moan about how my son is behaving he tells me that basically it's my own fault as I had bought him up.
I don't know. This just sounds like a rant. I do know that I don't feel that things are right. I am worried that the nastiness could escalate. He is now in the house again, and I don't know what I want I happen. Do I want him to stay or not? Do I want a relationship with him or not?
Help ! Does anyone have any views?

I know it's hard but I really do think that you need to start putting some 'distance' between you. You're staying in his 'orbit' and that's not a good thing. No walks, no 'comforting'. You need to be building a wall between your emotions and his need to control them.

He's leaving. Start letting him go now. Turn to yourself. You are stronger than you realise.

Hot and cold. I told him last night that maybe we should wait and see how we both feel about a walk today - rather than just saying yes. I am wary. So he's got up early and he's gone out. He said that he is 'doing something else'and has not got time and maybe another time.

I am just shrugging my shoulders. I am certainly not upset. I did not say 'yes' straightaway so now, it's forget it. I think this shows how stroppy he is. If he truly wanted to spend time with me, he would. Because I did not jump at his offer, he's headed off.

across I know you're right. I suppose the issue is I am still struggling to come to terms with the fact that he is this controlling person - at least some of the time he is. We have really had some good times and he has been incredibly supportive over the time we've been together. BUT he's not like that all the time. He's not 100% the person I thought he was. I am seeing that he is manipulative.

Today - he did not get his own way, I did not jump to spend time with him.

I'm not sure if he is controlling as such but you most definitely are most incompatible.
I can see it's very frustrating if you take care of things, when other don't. It must also be difficult to live with adult son that isn't your own and you have no say in.

Yes he could be abusive (you know him better than us) but equally he could have been swinging between loving you but being unable to actually live with two adults who are so different in values and attitudes.

What is patently obvious is that you need to split up. It would be good if you both can do this as amicably as possible. It might be no one is to blame. You are both incompatible.

My son did allow someone to use the bed my partner sleeps in, when he can't sleep in the same room as me cos I snore. It has an expensive mattress that he bought for himself - ages before we moved in together. My son was asked, by me , not to allow anyone to sleep in it, but reckons he was drunk and was not aware who slept where. Hmmmm. He was told it would be ok if a couple of friends came over, and It looked like the had been more than just a couple. He worked really hard at tidying up afterwards. It was not a party, just a few mates stopping over after a night out. My partner says that this was the last straw. Apparently I was bothered about 'my' table that was damaged but I appeared not to be concerned about his stuff when my son had used and abused it.

Guest uses spare bed shocker. The last straw? Bloody hell, he needs to get over himself. What a fucking princess.

Is it just the incidents that tigger the leaving threat not a deliberate ploy to keep me in my place? Because now he is leaving.

He says he is leaving. He hasn't actually flippin' left yet because he still thinks he can reel you in.

What I would do this weekend is put the house on the market. If it is over it is over, no time like the present. I could not be with someone whinnying about guests sleeping in the spare bed and all that bollocks. He cares more about possessions than people, so let him take his possessions and get the chuff out of your life.

Poppy

Abusive people can be nice sometimes and are not horrid all the time, that is how they keep their target hooked in and invested.

You have spoken to WA and they confirmed that this man is abusive towards you. You are still in a FOG state with regards to him because of his ill treatment of you. Controlling behaviour like he has and continues to show you is abusive behaviour; this man really does want absolute power and control over you. He will not let go of you easily also because he would then have to put in the work to find some other person to target (he does not want to do that). But you do need to free yourself from him and in turn enrol on the Freedom Programme run by Womens Aid. Your boundaries in relationships are skewed and that is probably also how he managed to worm his way into your life.

You come across well in your writings and seem very nice; I would think your son is a kind young man as well and a typical 19 year old. No wonder this individual who targeted you cannot abide him, your son really has the measure of him.

"We have really had some good times and he has been incredibly supportive over the time we've been together"

The "good times" were really few and far between and importantly on his terms alone. He has also certainly not been as supportive as you describe either during the time you have been together. This individual will not go quietly and will make separation from him as long and drawn out as possible by promising all sorts of nothing to keep you to him.

You are not the first person to be targeted by a master manipulator and unfortunately you will not be the last either.

Hi Poppy

I suppose the issue is I am still struggling to come to terms with the fact that he is this controlling person - at least some of the time he is.

I know exactly how you feel here, and I am sure many others on this thread do too. It is indescribably awful to admit to yourself that this is what the man you have loved is actually like, that he can coolly and calculatedly manipulate you for this own ends (whether done consciously or sub-consciously) and that it has crept up upon you and changed you almost without you knowing it. It is hideous because suddenly what you thought was real, seems a lot less real. And that's seismic.

Since I have left by Ex-DP I have missed the good times with him from time to time and have had plenty of pangs of loss. BUT I have had other equally good times with my children and with other friends / family which I would either not have had with him around, or there would have been this glowering human cloud of a man lurking on the fringes, waiting to get us away from the fun at the earliest opportunity, and generally putting a dampener on things before quite probably having a massive go at me later when we were on our own at home for alleged 'misdemeanours" ie: talking to another man!! And all told, I've just had enough of that kind of behaviour from him. But those are my issues.

LIke you though, I have been pro-active, and have not stayed at home, mourning him. I've got out, contacted old friends, exercised, done things that he wouldn't allow me to do when I was with him (swimming in the sea, for example). And that really helps because it's getting the old me back - albeit tempered, I hope, with a bit more relationship- wisdom these days.

Have you told your GP what's going on? I surprised myself by even just asking to be referred for counselling the other day. I' know I need further professional support to help me process what my Ex-DP has done to me, but when I asked to be referred for counselling, I just burst into tears - which is not like me at all! It totally took me by surprise just how crap I had been feeling about my relationship with Ex-DP, and the manner of its breakdown, because I am such a coper normally. But it just showed me how deep the EA he has meted out to me has gone.

But I think you can see it with your DP too. If he truly wanted to spend time with me, he would. Because I did not jump at his offer, he's headed off. You're right. He'd stick around, wait and try to persuade you - nicely - to go out for a walk. Not storm off. I've not heard of push / pull but it sounds about right to me.

And the jealousy thing with regards to your son.With my Ex-DP any time I spent with my children - even phone calls (yes, really!!) - was too much for him. They were all 'too demanding' and 'invading his privacy'. It was madness!! He just hated anyone at all having any claim on my time, energy and affections other than him. And, I also think, that he doubly hated it because me maintaining relationships with non-controlling, non-emotionally abusive people, whoever they were, provided a sense of perspective for me on his own mad behaviour - therefore making me less likely to succumb to his control totally, which, I think, is ultimately what my Ex-DP (rather sinisterly, thinking about it now) wanted.

If your DP really wanted to go Poppy and your relationship with him to end, he would have gone by now. What he wants is for you to say 'come back to me please and stay with me'. From what you've posted here, if you decide to do that, I think you will only regret it in the long term and quite probably find yourself back here in a few months going through all this again.

However, I have been there, and done that, and you have my every sympathy because I can tell just how much you have cared for this man, and how much you want a normal, healthy relationship with a loving partner which will see you both through till old age.

Ending any relationship of depth is an incredibly hard decision to make and no one could, or should, tell you what to do - including myself. Only you really know everything that's gone on, and how you feel about everything.

All I can say is what a very good friend of mine said to me about how she evaluates relationships, which I love because it is so simple and makes perfect sense to me. She says: 'If he ain't enriching my life, then it's time for him to get off my bus!'

Big hugs Poppy We'll be supporting you, whatever.

I'm in tears after reading you post Blessed. I am off out to try and find some distraction until my son comes home from work.

Poppy you need to stop listening to him. You have made such a positive step towards being happy don't let him convince you that you are wrong. If he is around in the evenings then occupy yourself, go out with a friend or invite one round, remove yourself from his vicinity if he insists on bring in the living room when you are there, move to the garden, if he follows you move inside again. You have made the decision to separate, but are still living like before. Things need to change to break this.

On lots of other threads I have immediately jumped to saying abuse and controlling. This one not so much. Yes he wants things his own way, but there doesn't seem like there is much cunning manipulation going on as such. He deals with it by saying he's leaving as he can't cope with living with two adults who don't care about possessions as much as him. He seems very stuck in his ways and unbending. Perhaps when he's calmed down he's pulled by the fact there is love there. Now this is no way to live and horrible for you but it doesn't scream controlling and abusive. I'm not saying he isn't abusive, because you know him better but what I do see is two unhappy people who should split up. Neither of you are getting what you want from this relationship.
Ok its taken him a couple of weeks to get his act together to actually find another place but he's done so now,

Maybe you just both need to accept that you are not right together, nobody is to blame as such and it's best if you split up in an amicable way. I don't want you to be persuaded that it is definitely abusive by pp who aren't looking at the whole picture. OTOH I don't want to minimise this if it is actually abusive. It's just it's not that clear cut from what I've read. If you aren't frightened of him and his reactions then maybe it really does boil down to incompatibility.

Maybe Poppy also make time for yourself today to really read and absorb much of the wisdom on this website. It has helped me so much.

outofthefog.website

rightwhine I have to disagree with you. Poppysquad is clearly in a relationship with an abusive and controlling man.

People divorce all the time because they are incompatible. Not all of them are abusive.

So he finds it difficult to tolerate a typical 19 yr old in his home. I'd find it difficult to live with a messy unrelated teen too. I'm sure there would be arguments and I'm not as stuck in my ways as your DP is.
He's a retired stuck in the mud old man who is from an era when the wife cooked tea. Ok not great but he's as fed up of the cycle of arguments as she is. He's said he's wanted to leave for a long time. But as we know it's hard to get to the emotional place to actually do so as he, like the op, knows they have had good times too.

Are these just normal arguments op? Or are you actually afraid of his responses? There is a difference between wanting to keep the peace and feeling you have to keep the peace.

Obviously I'm not advocating staying with the bloke. He sounds an arsehole. I'm just querying whether he is actually abusive.

Well Poppy has been to WA and they suggest he is abusive.

Missed that. Perhaps he is then.

Thanks liztaylors When I think back the issues started before we moved in together. I used to hear 'we need to spend more time together' and often faced resentment when I ferried my son around.

blessed and hermonie thanks for your continued support and posts. The are so many similarities. Your posts really move me. I Ann so greateful.

I called WA again this afternoon. Just to talk through things. I am looking for reassurance that it's not just me.

I do still sometimes feel like I am going nuts and I've invented all this and I am a neurotic idiot, looking to offload the fact that I have just ruined what could have been a great relationship. Thankfully there are enough people around me to say NO. And I am becoming more accepting that things weren't right.

Morning Poppysquad

No worries . Anytime . Life is hard anyway without emotionally manipulative men in it, making it worse. But unfortunately it seems there are a fair few of these around and it's a part of our journeys to meet them and deal with them.

At least we have the internet and online spaces like this where we are able to share and support one another. Not so very long ago women like us would have lived very different lives, possibly suffering terribly in silence with goodness knows what consequences to their mental and physical health. It doesn't bear thinking about.

Attila says Your boundaries in relationships are skewed and that is probably also how he managed to worm his way into your life. I think she's right. I know mine were when I met my Ex-DP - and possibly still are. Which is why I am throwing myself into a counselling programme wholeheartedly because I know that I need help to heal and change.

I regard it is not dissimilar to physio on a limb, injured after an accident. Counselling is physio for my emotional / mental health after emotional / mental injury.

And because your boundaries are a bit skewed, that's why you think you may be going nuts and that you are a neurotic idiot, ruining a great relationship. Trust me - even just a few weeks living apart from your Ex-DP, even if he is still hovvering and try to hoover you up again like mine is, you will already be able to look back and think to yourself 'Oh my goodness, why on earth did I ever put up with that?' Or 'Why did I ever think that?'

Their will is so great that when we are with them we become subsumed to their desires, putting our own needs and wants on the backburner, if not burying them completely. It's a form of brainwashing. And the demands on your time - more time, more time, more time with just you and him - is another form of isolating you from others, thereby reducing your ability to see the difference in the way others approach their relationships, and your ability to get away from him.

Why don't you write down all that's good about your relationship with your partner and all that's bad. Get it out on paper. Make it real. And keep that distance up from him - don't let him get to you, wherever he is.

Blessed, excellent insight.I also think if you are empathic you are more of a target for these men.Its a positive trait to have but empathics need to have firm boundaries to balance empathy.You are so right about the support we have online.It was through MN that I started to see the pattern in my relationship.I dread to think of how my mental health would be if I didnt have support .

Poppy, I completely see why you keep asking "is it me?".Two of my friends "get" it, one because she was in a similar relationship.The other friend is just someone with strong boundaries and is less naive than I have been.

My family struggle to really understand it, they accept what I say but the whole issue of controlling is an alien concept.I read books on controlling relationships where I highlight all of his behaviours YET still I reflect and question..was it me??
Ex could be lovely and we had some great times, my family all thought he adored me but he struggles with a healthy relationship and is unwilling to look at his behaviours - even through counselling.

Poppy
I have just read the whole thread. It has made me so emotional because a couple of years ago I was in such a similar place to you and to others who have posted.

Even now, although I rationally know that my exP was emotionally abusive and controlling, I find it hard to make sense of. My view of the world had been so distorted that I really believed he was right and it was me that must be in the wrong.

I know it can be really hard to see the wood for the trees in the situation you are in. What helped me was a thread where people were talking about all the lovely things their partners did for them. Not big gestures, just little mundane things, like having a cup of tea made when you came in from a tough day. It made me realise that in 17 years I had never really been cherished, or loved for who I was.

I decided that not being cherished/ loved was enough of a reason to split and making sense of the rest of it could wait. It was the best lightbulb moment I ever had

And the day I moved to my own home (hardly any furniture- what I did have was borrowed!) was the best day in a long, long time. It hasn't always been easy and I still grieve for the nice part of exP, but it was so worth it.

Good Luck Poppy!

And *Blessed's" advice of a list is a great one

Thanks all. I have started the list Blessed.

The issue is I have been cherished. Not all of the time but most days when I came home from work he'd make us both a drink and ask how my day had been. He has spoiled me, very occasionally with flowers.

We had a discussion today and he told me that he offered that we went out for a walk yesterday because it might help me feel better and he's right it often does. It was, he says, him being concerned that I was upset, and going out for a walk might help. When I backed away, he basically thought, well stuff you, I've offered and you've backed away, which is why is just headed off.

He ask explained why he feels so let down by me. He says that in all the instances where my son has done something, usually somehow damaging things at home, I've just said nothing. I can't remember if this is true or not. Apparently he thinks that I've not spoken to my son about the misdemeanours and even if I have I have spoken to my him I have never told my partner what was said or agreed. I can't remember. I did desperately try to clean up the mattress, but I did not tell him I was doing it.

I explained that, what I saw as the threat that he would leave, was uppermost in my mind. I did not want to bring these misdemeanours up or for him to think any less of my son that he does already. So I tried to make things good but did tell my partner that was what I was doing.

He has said that I am not the confident career person he thought I was and maybe I am easily intimidated.

It's all gone back to him being totally rational. The injured party.

He said about counselling that if I had suggested it say twelve months back then maybe but not now.

I told him that I solmetimes feared coming home asi did not know what set of mood he'd be in. He reckons that his moodiness stemmed from a frustration with my son who would lounge around the house watching tv, taking it easy, while he slogged in the garden or doing DIY. Apparently my son did not even offer to make him a drink. And so he was curt and short with me.

Back to the loop again. He thinks that I did not respond to his concerns about his stuff because I did not give a stuff. I did not support him as he sees it. I should have realised how upset he was and have gone out of my way to be more supportive. Instead of which I clammed up.

I am completely lost.

He reckons that his moodiness stemmed from a frustration with my son who would lounge around the house watching tv, taking it easy, while he slogged in the garden or doing DIY.

Your son is a student who also has a job, your DP is retired. Does your partner really believe that your son should be running around making tea for him? He wants to be waited on hand and foot!

I read this thread at the beginning and thought your partner was a rigid, unforgiving man. So someone slept in the spare bed; that's what spare beds are for. Your son sounds lovely, isn't everybody a little messy and thoughtless at 19?

Please stop feeling guilty and thinking your partner may have a point with his complaints. Possibly there is a grain of truth in the accusations he throws at you, but he makes you and your son unhappy. You sound like a kind and thoughtful person, you deserve more than the constant guilt trips and emotional manipulation.

Please read the sticky at the top of the relationships board - making someone a cup of tea when they get home from work is not a superhuman gesture of kindness. This man has brow beaten you to the extent that your perception of a normal loving relationship is severely skewed. It is all about him. He is even controlling your attempted exit from this disfunctional/abusive relationship by using it to point out your flaws. You need to take back some power Poppy.

Hi Poppysquad

I know you are desperately trying to see the best in your partner, but quite honestly, from what you've just posted he comes across as a really inadequate, unpleasant person.

a) why does he think your son should be running around after him, making him drinks? Does he make your son drinks? Does he look out for your son's needs? No. He moans and moans about the slightest thing. Respect is earned, not given automatically. This is not the 1950s where the oldest male in the house can tyrannise everyone else, no questions asked.
b) perhaps if your partner was warmer towards and more involved with your son's life, then your son might be warmer towards your partner (cups of tea while gardening etc)
c) why ON EARTH does your partner think it's acceptable to take out his frustrations with your son on you? I'm sorry, but I simply do not get that at all.
d) why counselling 12 months ago, but not now? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever other than to make you feel even worse than you do already
e) you are clearly a confident career person and you are not easily intimidated - how dare he say that to you?! This man has been playing mind games with you for years and I'd defy even the strongest of characters to resist such mental guerilla tactics while being holed up with your partner for such a length of time and especially during periods of intense vulnerability like the death of your mother
f) decent people don't just think well, stuff you and storm off when a suggestion they have made is not immediately leapt at by someone they love and who is clearly going through a hard time
g) and the garbage he says to you about not speaking to your son about the damage he has done in your home. Good Lord! What is wrong with this man? He makes it sound like your son pulls regular all-nighters with half the local town leaving the place totally trashed! What an idiot! It's supposed to be your son's home just as much as his!! And why isn't he speaking to your son about any problems he has with stuff? Why are you the go-between?

You really need to put some emotional - and preferably physical - distance between you and this man asap to help you rest, physically recuperate from all this horrendous stress, and to get a fresh perspective on what he is saying and doing.

If it makes you feel any better then don't say it's a permanent break, just say you need some time out and you're going to stay at a friends for a few days. Your son will be fine.

You'll get through this Poppy - it is always darkest just before the dawn.

Well done Poppy. I think you are doing really well. I had a similar relationship with my dad (we are now nc) and strongly suspect his current gf is in a similar position to you because he treats everyone in his life the same way. For a while I thought you might be her but she doesn't have a 19yo DS.

I just wanted to say that you have made the decision to split up with him. He has told you he is moving out. You do not need to spend your evenings discussing your ended relationship and where it went wrong. It causes you to doubt yourself and your belief about how toxic your relationship was. It also gives him the chance to tell you again how you have let him down. You need to tell him that the conversation ends here like he did with you and not engage in any more opportunities for him to assassinate your character and make him feel better about himself. You know why the relationship ended. It was because he is no good at them and you are worth more than that.

Remember your life is now on your terms, not his.