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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Told the children we're separating - what now?

89 replies

Whathappensnowthen · 20/05/2017 22:43

My husband and I have been separated for months but still living together. The children have witnessed a lot of arguments but didn't know we were splitting up till we told them today.

Due to it being a joint mortgage and us agreeing that one of us should live here and take the mortgage on as it's the only house the children have known,we both looked into buying the other out. However, as I will be the primary carer for the children,they counted 'against' my earnings and the mortgage company wouldn't lend me enough to buy my husband out. So he is in the process of buying me out and the children and I will be moving in with my parents in 2 weeks time.

We have tried to explain to the children that we both love them all and that, whilst we no longer love each other we still 'like' each other and so will still be doing birthdays, Christmas etc as a family. We will also try to be frequent visitors to each others places (at least to start with) to soften the blow for the children.

However, they have been crying this evening saying they don't want to leave the house. They said they just want us to stop arguing. It's about more than arguments of course - my husband has an alcohol problem that he refuses to acknowledge and I've had enough. The children rarely saw him drunk though, thankfully, but most nights it's the same old routine of children in bed then start drinking. I feel like I have been single for years as his drinking has been very isolating.

I am unsure what to do next. We want to reassure the children that everything will be ok, but there will undoubtedly be more tears and I want to make sure we say/do the right things. Does anyone have any pearls of wisdom they would care to share?

OP posts:
KarmaNoMore · 21/05/2017 10:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Whathappensnowthen · 21/05/2017 10:11

MissHavisham thank you - that info is exactly what I needed to hear.

OP posts:
pinkandorangeroses · 21/05/2017 10:12

I feel for you, OP.

Flowers

With the older two, I'd be inclined to be honest (in an age appropriate way) - they'll need loads of reassurance so be prepared for same conversations over and over.

The main thing though and I am positive you're doing this is to just keep showing them they are the priority, nothing else.

You sound like you've got your head screwed on - I'm sure you will get through this.

oleoleoleole · 21/05/2017 10:14

If your husband buys you out can you stay in the house and rent it from him. I also wouldn't be in a hurry to leave with four children. It may be that you can delay sorting the house/mortgage until you've both started living totally independently of each other. Please don't rush into anything. Take legal advice.

oleoleoleole · 21/05/2017 10:15

Also the childcare costs should be shared equally based on what you both earn.

AliceTown · 21/05/2017 10:18

Nobody needs to go bankrupt and the OP does certainly not need to rent from her husband. The law makes provision to avoid these kinds of struggles. The greatest burden must fall on the husband, not the children.

KarmaNoMore · 21/05/2017 10:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Miniminimus · 21/05/2017 12:07

I have been through this. 16 years living together, 3 children, though we were not married. So a weaker position legally than you - but I now have the house in my name, paying the mortgage myself. It sounds as if you are being very noble and moral about wanting yourself and your OH to split things equally, but if you haven't seen several solicitors (use the free half hour scheme to test them out), you are putting yourself and the children in a very vulnerable position. From what I learned from the process, it could go something like this:

Ask him to move out. Even just for 3 or 6 months initially. You need a breathing space and to check everything out legally and financially. Whether he stays with friends, bedsit or whatever is up to him. His name will stay on the mortgage initially and in an ideal world he would contribute to this. You may find he does to start with, then payments stop if he meets someone else/loses job etc, but it is a start. Until he has left, the sums are all a bit academic and the fours will be on what you and he can 'afford', i e. you are still thinking as a couple. This focus needs to shift to the needs of you and the children as a household going forward.

The day he leaves, claim tax credits. It sound like you have a similar gross income to me, though I worked full-time. If the number of hours you work qualify for the childcare element, and all the providers you use are Ofsted registered, you should recrive 70% of your childcare costs back. This is a game changer. You also get some basic tax credits per child, even to a fairly high income level, so with four DC, this should really add up. There is a tax credits calculator online and you can try this now, put the figures in as if you are single and paying for everything yourself. I don't think they count any child maintenance paid as income, but the calculator screen will tell you what to do. Once you actually claim and have a notice from them of your entitlement, your mortgage company should take this into account. Mine did, and it really helped offset that thing where they count the children against your earnings.

Get child maintenance organised. We had a voluntary arrangement to start with, ( trying to do things nicely), this started being reduced when he decided he wanted a nicer flat etc and stopped dead when he moved in with someone else. I then had to claim under the old CSA. This went onto a monthly direct debit scheme, collected by the CSA and counted as income for mortgage purposes as well. I think it is a bit more difficult now as the new scheme tries to encourage the voluntary route and that may not be counted as income by some banks. But a good independent mortgage broker could advise on that. Or if you can get the maintenance onto the next level in the scheme, (not suggesting your husband would default on voluntary, just that it is seen as more secure by banks), that may help. I would ring Child Maintenance Options for advice on this.

Get advice from several solicitors re. the house. This is free to start with so does not commit you to anything. I was told that had we been married, with my having main care of the three children, and it being a fairly modest house (three bed in nice area), and ex having slightly higher earnings and earnings potential, I would most likely have been awarded all of the equity in the house as part of a divorce settlement. So no need to find extra money to buy him out. As I was not married, he claimed half equity under property law, long story and eventually got sorted, but you are in a much stronger position. You could then need to take over the mortgage (from your new stronger position with tax credits and maintenance in place). Or if it is a very high value house or other complications that mean he retains some equity, the split can be decided by the court but the sale deferred until youngest child is 18, or completed HE, or older maybe if SEN. He might then remain on and contributing to the mortgage. Lots of reasonable options were outlined by the solicitors but not one suggested me and the children leaving the house if we had been married. If you are still thinking of moving out and leaving him in the house, if your name is still on the mortgage and he loses his job (alcohol dependecy/redundancy?), you are still liable for the whole monthly payments or can get your credit rating affected. And/if he later refuses to sell or has someone else move in, your could be stuck in rented and have to take expensive legal action to force a sale and get your equity out. I have a friend who moved out with her children and this has happened to her.

However much you want a friendly and cooperative outcome to this, celebrating Christmas together and so on....for the sake of your children and your/their future economic security it is time to get professional advice fast. It is much easier to get an amicable legal settlement early on rather than a few years down the line when other partners are involved (or maybe your hushand's alcohol dependency worsens).

With luck you could stay in your home and possibly keep an amicable relationship. The few people I know that have achieved that have had good professional advice and got things settled early.

Whathappensnowthen · 21/05/2017 13:09

Thank you for the info Mini.

I think the problem we have, and perhaps I have not stressed this enough, is that we are extremely squeezed financially. My husband has nowhere to go, no local mates, no family, nothing. Even to rent a 2 bed place anywhere near here is £900+ per month. We can't afford an extra £100 per month, so where would £900 come from? And that's without thinking of gas, electric, food etc. Yes I could claim tax credits, but I must be completely financially independent from my husband before they will even consider giving me anything and I cannot do anything about getting my own place until I get tax credits, so it's a vicious cycle.

My independent mortgage advisor tried every which way to get me a mortgage. The only way I could get one is if I am not the resident parent. Similarly, if my husband was the resident parent he would also have been turned down for the mortgage. How ironic that the only way either one of us can keep the 'family' house is if the children move out with the other parent.

But I digress. The courts could award whatever they like. The fact of the matter is that we have no money. We are heavily in debt. Unless the courts can force a mortgage company to give me a mortgage that I have no means of paying, then it's a waste of time. Besides which, I have no wish to ruin my husband. I no longer love him, I am leaving him and I am taking his children to live elsewhere. I find it pretty heartless to suggest that I demand a bigger equity stake and/or try to kick him out. He is near retirement and has worked damn hard since he was 15 to get to where he is now. Just because I no longer love him does not give me the right to take that away from him. And as I mentioned previously, I am a high earner myself, so will hardly be garnering any sympathy (nor wanting any) from a court trying to play me as the poor downtrodden wife left with nothing. If my children saw my husband as a broken man, which some of your actions would surely lead him to be, they would be devastated. He may be a lousy husband, but he has been the best Dad.

Thank you again for all the advice regarding the children, that has been much appreciated.

OP posts:
inlectorecumbit · 21/05/2017 13:24

You are selling yourself and your DC's short if you follow your current route.
Surely the priority here is your DC's not your H !!!!
Put a halt on everything until you get some better legal advice.

isitjustme2017 · 21/05/2017 14:06

I understand you want advice about your children OP but your current living situation is what is upsetting them, hence why people are trying to help with that.
I'm struggling to understand why your husband even got this larger mortgage to buy you out if he only has £40 left at the end of the month. Mortgages are based on affordability and he clearly can't afford it, so amazed that he got one. Also if you're up to your eyeballs in debt, no mortgage company would touch you. I know from first hand experience how hard it is these days to get one.

AliceTown · 21/05/2017 14:15

This isn't about doing your husband out of anything - it's about ensuring your DCs needs are met. You are working part time and shouldering all of the childcare costs and moving out to somewhere far less suitable, while he gets the family home (where the children want to be) and none of the responsibility. I lost everything because my husband lead me to believe it was the right thing for me to move out because I had fallen out of love with him. It wasn't the right thing and I'll regret it forever. Renting is awful. It's even worse with children.

I understand your resistance, I really do, but people here are speaking sense. The kids have to come first.

Lelloteddy · 21/05/2017 14:37

Have you had advice about a Mesher Order?

notapizzaeater · 21/05/2017 14:41

But surly if he isn't paying a huge mortgage he would be able to afford the rent ?

Whathappensnowthen · 21/05/2017 15:17

The debt we have is a huge overdraft in an account linked to the mortgage. Our current lender is fine about it, but I don't know how others would view it. As I said, they offered us the best rate due to being long-standing customers, so if I couldn't get a mortgage with them, I wouldn't be able to get one from anywhere else.

The children are my priority. Doing things this way, with us living at my parents (who live a 5 minute walk away) the children will be able to frequently see their Dad, even walk to his house. The biggest thing they were upset about last night was the thought of not seeing him often, so they will be happy with this scenario (or as happy as they can be at least).

I have heard of the orders (Mesher?) that force a husband to allow a wife to stay in a jointly owned property until the child/ren reach 16 or 18, but this would leave him unable to get a mortgage himself. He would be way past retirement age by the time the children get to that age. I simply cannot do that to him. Force him to live in rented accommodation for 16 odd years just so I can live in a house that, to be honest, I'm not overly keen on anyway. There hasn't been some major abuse/violence issue with us, I just don't love him any more. But I don't hate him either. Added to which, if he stays in this house the children also benefit, by having a familiar place to go to and to have a happy Dad. Financially things are getting sorted to my satisfaction. Just because I could, in theory, 'take him for more's (for want of a better phrase), does that mean I should? Same as would I claim benefits if I was entitled to them but didn't actually need them financially? According to the hmrc website I would be entitled to almost £2,000 every 4 weeks. Ontop of my good salary. How is this right? Seems far too much to me. What I find a bit sad is that we have had to repay our child benefit due to my husband's earnings being over a certain level. Now that we are separating, I can keep the whole lot. So much for encouraging marriage and 'families' - it actually pays for us to separate. Really sad.

OP posts:
AliceTown · 21/05/2017 15:21

You're entitled to so much because you pay so much childcare. Of course the morally right thing to do would be for your husband to contribute to the childcare, since he also requires the childcare to allow him to work.

Again though, this isn't about anyone "taking" anyone for anything. It's ensuring the best outcome for the children, which means the least disruption. I can't believe that he's happy to boot his children out and keep the house himself. No wonder you've fallen out of love.

marthastew · 21/05/2017 15:27

The childcare costs are not yours alone. They are shared with the other parent.

isitjustme2017 · 21/05/2017 15:39

If you're entitled to £2000 every 4 weeks then your salary can't be that high. I know a lot of that will be towards childcare but seems very high to me.

Why are your childcare costs so high if you only work part-time?

CrazedZombie · 21/05/2017 15:54

Another one who thinks that you need more advice.

If your ex is rarely going to have the kids because of work, it seems silly that he's going to live in a big house with a mortgage that's a struggle. Most mortgage providers allow you to port to a new deal so no penalties etc. The difference in payments could go on the kids. Keeping the house at all costs because it's all they know doesn't make sense. Your kids can have happy memories elsewhere.

I really wouldn't promise doing birthdays and Christmas together. Once you both get new partners, it's unlikely that you'll be able to continue this. My children see both of us on their birthdays and Xmas but we don't celebrate all together.

Whathappensnowthen · 21/05/2017 16:02

Isit, I earn more than £35k for a 30 hour week, but I spend over 2 hours a day commuting to my workplace. I had to travel far away to get this level of earnings. The downside is that I have to pay for childcare to cover my commute time as well as my time at work, hence paying approx £300 per week for that. In the school holidays it's £126 per day 😞 I've only been back at work 10 months after a 5 yr career break, so I have started applying for better paid positions, but I'm stuck where I am for now.

We have signed all relevant documents now, so the mortgage buy-out is a done deal, hence I was just asking for advice on the children.

OP posts:
Gobbolinothewitchscat · 21/05/2017 16:17

You need proper legal advice. Can your parents lend you some money.

What about your DH acting as guarantor?

Therealslimshady1 · 21/05/2017 16:23

I would let go of the idea of keeping the family house.

It won't be a "home" for your kids, without you in it.

Better to sell up and rent?

Why would your H get the house, whilst you get the childcare costs (and responsible for them, solely?!)

You are cutting yourself a very bad deal.

Fight for the best deal you can get. A house is just a house, home is where you (mum) is

Therealslimshady1 · 21/05/2017 16:24

Why is DH not paying for childcare?

Whathappensnowthen · 21/05/2017 16:36

He's not paying because I was a sahm and as I wanted to return to work I need to cover childcare. Anyway, if I'm the one who will (eventually) receive tax credits, it makes sense for me to be paying the childcare. In fact, if I receive tax credits on the basis I'm paying the childcare, then legally I should be the one paying it shouldn't I? With him buying me out he can't afford childcare anyway. But then if I bought him out, I wouldn't have been able to afford it either.

OP posts:
AliceTown · 21/05/2017 17:09

If you pay all of the childcare and then claim it back from tax credits, the state is paying your childcare bill and your H is getting to live in a big old house he can't actually afford.

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