DH and money

[QueenOfTheHuns]

Have name changed for this - could do with some advice or just to get this all off my chest, sorry if it ends up being a long one!

DH and I have been together 10 years, married for 4 months. No children yet.
Now he's always been a bit shit with money in that his parents would pay for everything and he never had to take responsibility for bills etc. When he moved in with me I was living with a friend paying half of the bills and DH would give me half of that back in cash which was the easiest thing for us at the time. We've always sort of plotted along like this, however DH then started to get a bit slack with paying me back on time. We would row about it every now and again and then he would catch up.
I do earn slightly more than him - maybe £300 more a month on average - but I have a car to pay for (he doesn't drive).
When we decided to get married I talked about joint accounts etc and he wasn't keen - but I was fine with it because we both earn our own money and spend it as we like. But he has become a lot worse at paying me back on time and I'm starting to reach the end of my tether.
He says he genuinely forgets and doesn't always go near a cash machine. He refuses to get online banking, god knows why. I suggested he set up a direct debit into my account for every payday and then it's paid and I don't have to keep asking - I'm driving myself mad nagging about it all the time! - but he doesn't want to do that. He still gets his bank statements sent to his mum's house and when we're there he takes them into another room to open. I've asked to see them, he says it's nothing to do with me. I've told him it's not normal to keep finances so separate when you're married and I'm worried he's either skint and hiding it or he's got loads of money and hiding it - I don't know what's worse! He says I don't need to be worried and he just forgets to give me the money.
My outgoings are over £1000 a month including my car, phone bill etc. He's supposed to pay me back £160 a week - I'm currently getting £150 every few weeks so he's just getting more and more behind. He owes me money from rent paid almost a year ago! Meanwhile I'm keeping up to date with bills etc because if I didn't I'd have nowhere to live, no nice things etc. In a way I feel I'm protecting myself financially by being able to provide for myself but also I've shot myself in the foot by letting it get this far.
I'm now scared to start a family with him because I know it would be even worse. Im worried about our future and I feel like he could easily leave me high and dry if he decided he didn't want to be with me one day. This does not shock him into action - he says he's going to try harder to be better but at this point I've heard it all before and so the cycle goes on.
The thing is, he's otherwise a good guy and I love him otherwise I wouldn't have married him. Whenever I've read similar threads in the past I always imagine stroppy teenager type men who sit on their arses all day playing video games - he isn't like that at all. I just don't know where to go from here! Any advice? (That is if you've made it this far )

Get a contract drawn up detailing the repayments. Should take 2 hours max of a solicitors time. That could make him take things more seriously?

It baffles me that women are so desperate to be married that they put up with these awful manchildren.
Sorry if that's harsh OP but really, honestly, it isn't that bad being single that you have to put up with this kind of shit.
This man is not a grownup. He is a little boy. Send him home to mummy and move on with your life. Ending a marriage is not a thing to take lightly but in this case I simply can't see any chance of him growing up and acting like a husband should without having to be dragged every step of the way. That will leave you very vulnerable to backsliding if you have children together. It's not worth it. Cut your losses (quite literally, unfortunately).

If he actually wanted to fix this situation he would have fixed it by now. So he doesn't want to fix it. How can you be with someone like that ?!

The fact he's paying in cash I dodgy to me. I think there's something else going on, maybe gambling idk what but this isn't normal behavior. For what reason wouldn't he set up a standing order? It'd be easier for him and you.. There's something else going on.

My exdp was a gambler and everything you are saying OP rings so true to our situation. Everything came out of my account and was on my name. I was constantly chasing him and he would always just forget to pay me etc.

My concern here is why does he need a loan to pay you back when he's not been paying you and gets a wage? Where has all his money gone?

He has no respect for you and no desire to act like a grown up. Marrying him was not sensible but staying with him and having children would be utterly insane. Split now while you can and get on with your life.

This is one of the best arguments against marrying for love. [Sigh]

Marriage is a partnership. And you can't see his statements. Their delivered to his parents' home and he won't show them after being asked. And his behind paying his share of everything. That's not partnership. That's another p-word I'm thinking 'piss-take'.

Do not stay married to this person (manchild is too polite), just to say you are married and it hasn't failed. I'm here to tell you if he ain't changing, your marriage has failed.

You have to wait a while for his next payday payment. OK.

He could show you his bank statements today. Right now. This second. If he finds a reason not to then you know he is hiding something big, something big enough to end your marriage.

If he has destroyed them / lost them / stored them at his mum's, these are all signs of hiding something seriously bad.

I generally don't recommend being sneaky but in this case I would happen to be passing his mum's house on statement day , have a nice cup of tea and chat then, to be nice, pick up his post for him and take it home.

I would hold the statement in my hands in front of him and tell him that I'm about to open it and is there anything he wants to tell me before I find out anyway.

Though, tbh, that you might need to do something like that shows your relationship is over already because of whatever addiction he has, whether it is to shopping, gambling, posh dinners, other women, prostitutes, cocaine, whatever.

I agree with PP that the fact he won't show you the statements, has them still sent to the parents' house and would need to take a loan out to pay you back suggests he is in debt.

As someone else said, if this is the case, then what has he been spending his money on?

Your life will never be a happy one if you have to live with this uncertainty. I know because I lived with financial abuse for over a decade and it didn't get any better, as others said, it gets worse. You will end up bailing him out more and more. The more you put up with it, the more risk he will take and expect you to bail him out because you won't want the house of cards to come tumbling down.

You cannot have kids with him. You would be better off being single and having kids by yourself, in my opinion. Don't underestimate the value of honesty and transparency and the impact both physically and mentally of dishonesty and increasing financial bail outs. You are worth more than someone treating you like this.

Everyone thought I had the perfect relationship, a wonderful partner and so on. He was living in a fantasy world of his own creation, other people believed what he projected and I was really good at hiding the reality because I was very embarrassed about the truth. My freedom since things came tumbling down has been delicious and its worth truly is immeasurable. I am happy in that respect and you can be too.

If he's supposed to give you £160 per week does he not get paid weekly? Has he literally just got paid on Friday 5th May and can't afford to give you anything????

I have a friend (not married) they split with 4 DC, she worked the entire time and was the lower earner, paid all the childcare etc. She walked away with £0 he had £70k in the bank...

Has he lost his job and not told you op? Sounds suspicious to me. Do you know what he does spend his money on?

All these posters suggesting the direct debits come out of his account instead: would you trust a man who lies about money to pay your rent for you? At least if the rent comes out of the OPs account she knows it's paid and she's not going to be suddenly evicted for nonpayment.

Fair point, but as far as I know she wouldn't be "suddenly evicted" - I don't think you're on quite such shaky ground as a tenant (imagine if there was a bank error, for instance - you wouldn't be instantly evicted). I'm sure she would be informed that the rent hadn't been received and would receive at least one warning before it got to the stage of actual eviction.

And if the OP's husband does fail to pay and so shows that he can't even be trusted with something so crucial as keeping a roof over their heads that would be pretty good grounds to LTB.

But Grand he already hides his bank statements, he could hide overdue letters from the landlord, or ring the landlord and say "Queen has lost her phone, so please ring me about all issues" then the OP is cut out of the loop completely. The man is fundamentally dishonest about money, I would not be happy to let him prove himself by risking the roof over my head.

She's already got pretty good grounds to LTB.

You could start quietly letting other people know. Confide in his and your best friends. You could just say "I'm worried that he is gambling again and that it is much worse this time. He is having money troubles and won't say why. If you know he has started gambling again, please please tell me."

You don't have to get into any more detail. Just put it out there that he is a gambler and he's got money troubles again.

But it doesn't matter anyway. Sometimes couples break up and their mates think, god that's a surprise, I thought they were solid. It is gossip for about 15minutes then no one cares. Every single person in a marriage knows the difference between the public face and what goes on behind closed doors.

There will no doubt be other married people in your friend group who are having issues you have no idea about.

Then again, loads of them might know perfectly well that he pisses away his money and you subsidise him but as long as you seem happy with it they wouldn't say anything.

Send him home to mummy and move on with your life.

On the plus side, he wouldn't have to worry about having his bank statements redirected.

But Grand he already hides his bank statements, he could hide overdue letters from the landlord, or ring the landlord and say "Queen has lost her phone, so please ring me about all issues" then the OP is cut out of the loop completely. The man is fundamentally dishonest about money, I would not be happy to let him prove himself by risking the roof over my head.

Yes, you're probably right. He's most likely dishonest about more than just money.

Funny how you partly blame his parents but here you are having enabled this foolishness for ten years. I get it, finding workarounds around his financial laziness and secrecy was expedient but that was probably the same logic employed my his parents.

Interesting that you fear that if you gave him an ultimatum that he would be back at his parents, that says a lot about the strength of your partnership. What were you thinking when you made vows to this man, if he baulks at setting up a DD and showing you his bank account, God only knows what he would do at the sickness part of your vows.

Op it's time to pull up those big girl knickers and accept your part in your relationship dynamic and if you want it to be different, you are going to have to stop enabling this foolishness.

would receive at least one warning before it got to the stage of actual eviction

Eviction is the least of it. I'm a LL and I'd not give a good reference to a continual late payer (as it won't just be one month).

There can also be additional costs for letters and interest, stoppages from deposit, less speedy dealing with checkout and delayed deposit return, non renewal of tenancy at the end of the period period plus LLs tend to know other LL and word soon gets about. Especially if our property gets associated with a poor credit rating.

Have been at a family birthday today, I have read through the thread, completely agree with the advice given even if it is hard to read about myself. PP are right , I am just as much to blame for allowing him to carry on like this. I think because we were young when we got together (I'm 27, he's 29) I just accepted it at first and then just found it easier to pay for things myself, I've always preferred to be independent and not have to rely on anyone else to pay for me but I've probably taken that too far and shot myself in the foot.
We have talked about it, I told him how it's made me feel like he doesn't respect me, he could leave at any time if he felt like it because he's not responsible for anything and our relationship feels one-sided. I talked about how I would be stupid to have children with him while this continued.
He was a bit 'wounded puppy' at first but he's said he didn't realise it was giving me doubts about us, he wants a future and to grow up and he is going to be better. We are going to the bank on our next day off to sort out a joint account for bills and a direct debit into it from his account. I've seen a bank statement and couldn't see anything glaringly obvious or worrying, most of his money just goes on "stuff" like pub, clothes etc and there is money in there. He gets paid weekly, he has given me this weeks and I've worked out that if he keeps up with paying me £160 a week he will have paid me back by August and he will carry on paying £160 a week once he's caught up and the excess will go towards paying back his parents and into our savings. So for now I suppose I'll just give him the benefit of the doubt and see if he sticks to it. He is aware that if he doesn't I will leave and he will have to explain to everyone why our marriage ended. I'm sure most of you will think I've just been sucked in by his lies yet again but I'm genuinely feeling more positive today. I promise you I'm not a pathetic soul clinging onto "but I love him" , I have stood my ground and he is aware that if things don't change we're done. So that's where I'm up to for now

That sounds positive. He needs to have his bank statements coming to your home together too, tho, and be fully open about finances. Don't let any of it slide any more.

Good for you for sorting it. The wounded puppy is manipulation. He selfish to the bone though, you pay, fret worry about making ends meet while his money is his to spend on shite, clothes, nights out. & now you're the nag spooling his fun

That is all sounding very positive.

If you want DC together the time to start saving and reduce spending is now! Maternity leave and childcare is expensive you both need to be able to live of less now and be happy with that before TTC especially if he is used to being reckless with his £.

That's really good, apart from wounded puppy, assuming it happens like he has promised.

Setting up the standing orders to pay bills and repay his debt to you and parents is the beginning, it is the easy part, even though it probably feels like the hard part is over.

£160 plus half of rent and bills per week, so that's got to be at least £300 per week reduction in spending. He's going to have to cope with a big lifestyle change, get used to counting his pennies and saying no to himself. That will take quite a lot of effort from him. I hope he manages to do it and keep it up.