DH and money

[QueenOfTheHuns]

Have name changed for this - could do with some advice or just to get this all off my chest, sorry if it ends up being a long one!

DH and I have been together 10 years, married for 4 months. No children yet.
Now he's always been a bit shit with money in that his parents would pay for everything and he never had to take responsibility for bills etc. When he moved in with me I was living with a friend paying half of the bills and DH would give me half of that back in cash which was the easiest thing for us at the time. We've always sort of plotted along like this, however DH then started to get a bit slack with paying me back on time. We would row about it every now and again and then he would catch up.
I do earn slightly more than him - maybe £300 more a month on average - but I have a car to pay for (he doesn't drive).
When we decided to get married I talked about joint accounts etc and he wasn't keen - but I was fine with it because we both earn our own money and spend it as we like. But he has become a lot worse at paying me back on time and I'm starting to reach the end of my tether.
He says he genuinely forgets and doesn't always go near a cash machine. He refuses to get online banking, god knows why. I suggested he set up a direct debit into my account for every payday and then it's paid and I don't have to keep asking - I'm driving myself mad nagging about it all the time! - but he doesn't want to do that. He still gets his bank statements sent to his mum's house and when we're there he takes them into another room to open. I've asked to see them, he says it's nothing to do with me. I've told him it's not normal to keep finances so separate when you're married and I'm worried he's either skint and hiding it or he's got loads of money and hiding it - I don't know what's worse! He says I don't need to be worried and he just forgets to give me the money.
My outgoings are over £1000 a month including my car, phone bill etc. He's supposed to pay me back £160 a week - I'm currently getting £150 every few weeks so he's just getting more and more behind. He owes me money from rent paid almost a year ago! Meanwhile I'm keeping up to date with bills etc because if I didn't I'd have nowhere to live, no nice things etc. In a way I feel I'm protecting myself financially by being able to provide for myself but also I've shot myself in the foot by letting it get this far.
I'm now scared to start a family with him because I know it would be even worse. Im worried about our future and I feel like he could easily leave me high and dry if he decided he didn't want to be with me one day. This does not shock him into action - he says he's going to try harder to be better but at this point I've heard it all before and so the cycle goes on.
The thing is, he's otherwise a good guy and I love him otherwise I wouldn't have married him. Whenever I've read similar threads in the past I always imagine stroppy teenager type men who sit on their arses all day playing video games - he isn't like that at all. I just don't know where to go from here! Any advice? (That is if you've made it this far )

How, if he is sorry and better for a week or two, has that standing order never been set in any of those improved, remorseful fortnights?

Because he's not actually bothered.

Given your comment about fruit machines, I would put that together with his bank statements going to his parents house and definitely consider gambling is a possibility.

Jesus wept OP!!!

This is so beyond insane I just don't have the words to describe it.

You have two choices.

1. ignore everyone on this thread because you're afraid of this massive thieving cockhead leaving you and prepare to be robbed BY YOUR HUSBAND for the rest of your life

2. tell him he acts like a normal married person TODAY or it's over. That involves showing you his bank statements and setting up a DD to cover the shared monthly living costs plus however much is needed for him to repay the money he owes you within 6 months.

This is so stratospherically mad I'm inclined to say this will end the way of the HDM thread but I won't

I don't see the fact you don't have joint bank accounts as an issue. What I do see as a problem is the secrecy. The fact he opens his bank statements in a different room sounds very odd. He's either earning significantly less than he claims or he's spending is out of control. Op does he routinely spend much money of 'stuff'?
Me and my partner split the bills, he pays some out of his account and I pay others out of my account. Is there any chance you could do that arrangement? For example the rent comes out of his account and he pays for the weekly food shop - whilst you pay the other household bills etc. That way he doesn't need to bother getting cash out and you don't need to then go to the bank etc!
Who doesn't have online banking?

Or he has a gazillion pounds stockpiled in the bank and doesn't want OP to know!

Personally I'd sell his things and stop anything you pay that is for him e.g. Sports Channels, his phone, his food etc

Ask him to make a choice. Either set up a standing order and pay the back log and be open about his statements/debts/savings by x date or go live with his parents and you'll get a reliable tennsnt tenant in. He's presently freeloading and treating you like he would his mum, rather then behaving as a married partnership and self centeredness won't work as you hit different life stages. Illness. Children. Retirement. Could easily slip into financial abuse and so you are drawing a line, offering him two choices.

The secrecy sis a red flag and the freeloading is a red flag.

be honest with people because you need their support. Infact once he's moved out and gone back to his parents you can send an email round to your very closest friends and family explaining that you've asked him to move out because he wont behave like a married couple financially (hes very secret and shirks his financial responsibilities) and this would slip into financial abuse as you hit different life stages. You have been discussing the issue for months and haven't got anywhere so finally gave him an ultimatum.

He doesn't sound very invested in your marriage. Can you suggest to him that you set up a joint account for paying household bills and agree an amount you each pay into it every month? That way you both pay the bills and have some money left over that is your to spend as you wish. If he doesn't agree to this then I would be worried about what he is hiding.

He doesn't want a standing order set up because that would mean you actually get paid on time. He wants to pay as he pleases.

You'll find he won't change unless forced to and when you realise he won't change, you'll have wasted your best years with him and have no children, because you couldn't risk it with him.

Whilst he is extremely immature and taking advantage of you, like his parents you've enabled him over the course of your relationship by not insisting he set up a standing order.

I'm sure that's hard to hear, but it's true. He could set a weekly reminder on his phone to pay you, but the whole arrangement seems so unlike a marriage, it's rather bizarre.

Have you LTB yet?

He either has a million in the bank or a million in overdrafts.

You need to be firm and strong with this man child. Stop being a mug because otherwise it will never end. How can you plan anything in your life, holidays, house buying, kids, etc when you have no idea about his financial situation?!

Show him this thread.

Move on with your life.

My sil complains to me about my brother in a very similar vein. She pays for most of the bills and once gave him a grand that simply disappeared. She has to force him to reveal his debts and statements, his mail goes to our parents house, she's never seen his payslip.

Growing up he was pretty irresponsible financially and I suppose, entitled. I don't know where it comes from. but I have little sympathy for her and anyone else who subsidises any man's antics and lifestyle just to be able to say they're married.

Dh and I earn the same amount and know everything about each other's finances. But when we met I was a single mum of 2 in heaps of debt and we both cut our cloth and ate yellow sticker food to get out of that debt. I'm worried that with my db attitude to money, they'll never get out of debt or buy a property.

Op what are your dreams and ambitions for life? Kids? Property? Travel? Without teamwork and honesty it just won't happen.

He has a problem of some kind, op. Whether it's gambling or greediness or anything else. I think the game is up and he needs to be honest with you. Do his parents know more than they're letting on?

I don't think anyone else has mentioned this, but it's wrong for him to still receive statements at his parents' too. If you both live in the house that both of you rent, he should be receiving all his mail there. It suggests he has not fully left home yet.

Mind you, who still gets paper statements and doesn't online/phone bank? Oh yes, someone who doesn't want to take responsibility for himself...

I had an ex like this (not married) and realised I would always be dragged down to his ways. Dumping him was the best thing I could do for both of us. I still had debts from that period for the next 2 years. New bf (dh) was horrified and pointed out that you pay the bills to put a roof over your head, then food, then nice things. Not the other way round. Your dh sounds like my ex - wants to keep up with what he thinks his lifestyle should be, not what he can afford.

Don't have kids unless you get this sorted.

Impresionante - we still get paper statements are they are sometimes asked for as ID (and online statements not accepted). Both my teenagers have had to produce them recently for ID for work exp in a bank and a PT job respectively. And obviously they don't get other statements, eg utilities, being teenagers still.

Having said that, we all have online banking, DC got it as soon as eligible on 16th birthdays. Who doesn't have it, if they have internet and can.

As for still sending statements to parents and opening them in private, words fail me.

Op - not sure how old you both are, but it does seem like your DH has never grown up, he has just moved from being looked after by parents financially, to being looked after by you. So many red flags here it is untrue.

I cant understand why you married him without resolving these problems, esp if you had to take loans and work extra to pay for it all. That in itself should have been a red flag, that he wasn't interested in helping you save for wedding and honeymoon.

As a pp said, there are so many life events to come, maybe illness, kids, buying a house, etc, that if you are not working together financially now, it will only get so much harder.

Please give him an ultimatum - and not just to set up a SO. Statements to your address, full transparency of finances etc. Once married, esp with DC, all money should be seen as family money, but there is no way that can happen without full transparency.

You do need financial transparency op but IMO it's not the hiding things, he can do what he wants as long as he doesn't owe you money and pays what he needs to on time.
It's the whole financial irresponsibility. It will always be someone or something else who is responsible for what's happened. At some point it will actually be you because YOU wanted the wedding and YOU wanted the honeymoon.
It will be that YOU wanted kids.
He will never take responsibility and he won't have to because there will always be someone around to bale him out.
Leave him op.

Your set up is bizarre. How could you marry someone without knowing their financial history? As his wife, his debts are now your debts. He could leave you high and dry.

He needs to go back to his mummy's as he obviously has no respect for you and I couldn't respect my OH if he behaved like yours.

Be tough, stop enabling him!

I do hope the OP is reading and listening to the advice here , this situation is really worrying.

I've been where she is and when I met my current partner I asked it outright what his attitude to money was as financial irresponsibility is now one of my deal breakers. It should always have been bit you live and learn.

A person should always know the importance of protecting themselves financially, those that don't are vulnerable.

Mrsjamesmathhews up thread a little bit is absolutely spot on!

He will slip further and further into your debt and you are right to be wary of having DC with him. Imagine being on Maternity Leave with a lot less income and still having to fork out for everything yourself. His parents have trained him into bad habits. He is not acting as a "partner".

He knows you really, really want him to set up a DDR but the slight hassle of doing this is not worth it to him to avoid the aggro and to please you, his wife! Put the S/O form filled in - in front of him to sign (you can drop it into or post it to the bank) if he won't do it - then I think you will know where you stand.

It looks like there are several issues here. I'm not clear as to what he is paying you back for now - I assume you're no longer living with your friend - but the following seems to be the case:

1. He's poor at managing money;
2. He is reluctant to reimburse you (I don't believe he keeps forgetting: for whatever reason, this is willful defiance);
3. He is being secretive about the money he has;
4. He is using money as a form of control / low-level abuse (imo).

Could you reorganise finances so that he is paying (via SO/DD from his account) and you have to pay him back instead? I imagine he would be reluctant, but there's no reason it shouldn't be this way round.

All these posters suggesting the direct debits come out of his account instead: would you trust a man who lies about money to pay your rent for you? At least if the rent comes out of the OPs account she knows it's paid and she's not going to be suddenly evicted for nonpayment.

The short version is that you are placing yourself at risk by being legally tied to someone who is crap with money to the extent that he can't even meet his obligations to you nor be financially transparent.

What's more, he knows you're concerned and won't even take that one small step to alleviate your concerns and do is choosing to continue to stress you and your relationship.