Marriage problems

[Sadandsoconfused]

Have nc for this.

I've been married for 19 years, together for 25, so since start of uni, have 2DC.
I've had two major episodes of depression, both caused by scary health stuff. One several years ago and one recently and I've had therapy for depression, anxiety and PTSD for a year now.
In recent weeks my marriage has been the focus of my therapy work and it's been very tough. A few things came out which I think I've downplayed but felt angry about without really knowing why.

I'm a strong person normally, a coper, and DH is used to that. There were two separate incidences when I was absolutely rock bottom with depression and he didn't do anything. He probably would have let me kill myself. It was so scary for me what was going on in my brain that I self admitted to a mh hospital as I felt I couldn't keep myself safe.

Went on tablets and recovered fairly quickly. Had years of no problems but recently, due to another health issue I became depressed again.

DH has again not been emotionally supportive at all. He actually said he would not be able to stop myself if I wanted to kill myself anyway. It shocked me and brought back that previous time when I so needed him to be my rock and he's just not getting it.

He does help a lot around the house, is incredibly hands on with the children, and has never complained about the state of the house. Sometimes I've been so bad I wasn't able to do anything all day except the school run.

My therapist has recommended to go for couple therapy together, but DH is absolutely against it. We've had several talks about it and I can't reach him, he's adament it would do more harm than good.
I don't know if we'll manage to get this sorted on our own, I doubt it as he doesn't get what I need from him.
He's not talking about emotions at all, and when I do he goes silent. No hugs or comfort, just awkwardness and maybe an attempt to hold my hand when I'm crying, but mostly nothing. I don't cry normally but recently during my three attempts to talk to him I did.

He's a very rational, analytical and introvert person and I'm outgoing and spontaneous and 97% of the time I'm ok. The 3% when I need him I feel he's not there to catch me and I feel so lonely.
He's always been like this so I feel bad for bringing it up, but it's replicating something from my childhood (lack of care, support, safety) which makes this extra hard and triggering.

I love him very much and want to repair this, but I can't do it all on my own. I'm sure my way of dealing with things don't help, getting angry doesn't help but I'm not aggressive or something, I turn it inwards where it is doing a lot of harm.
I also can't tell him exactly what I need when I'm in such a bad place plus it makes me feel like I'm talking to one of the dc and he shouldn't need micromanaging how to support me.

Has anyone got experience with therapy refusers and how can I make him understand how important this is to me? He is all supportive of me going to therapy on my own, but I feel he thinks this is my issue, I need to go there, get fixed and all will be well again.
I feel so angry about it all and now have to swallop the anger because I don't want to argue in front of the DC.

DH has reverted back to 'all is fine' mode after last night's talk and I can sense him being irritated about me being slightly off with him because 'we talked about it'.

Sorry it's been such a novel.

Hi sorry to see you're having a tough time.
I don't usually post on relationships but thought I'd try bump it as I'm sure there's someone who can help much better than I.
Hope your day hasn't been too bad

for you OP.

I'm not going to claim to be an expert. I'm really not. However, have you tried giving him a bit of an ultimatum? Come to therapy and try to make it worse or the marriage will fall apart.

I'm sure someone will come along with some better advice soon.

*work not worse.

Tricky. I've spent 17 years with my STBXH and his MH problems. I was initially supportive but then gradually switched off because it was way too much to deal with, 2 kids and him quite frankly taking advantage of me and manipulating me. I can see it's not quite the same situation for you as you both seem to work as a team.

I can understand the switching off with regards to emotional support. I did it to protect myself. I was exhausted. Has your DH ever been emotionally supportive, and I mean in the everyday sense when you weren't ill? I.e. Has this been a recent thing or do you think it's just your illness he can't deal with? Just a few ideas as to what it is exactly he has difficulty with.

If he won't go to counseling then there's no point in trying to make him. That's really tough. But if these feelings make you resent him then this will eat inside of you whether you can get past this with individual counseling I don't know. Is he aware of this resentment

Hugs you're in a difficult place

My position is different but there are certain similarities.

I became physically disabled a few years ago, 20+ years into marriage. I'd previously been hugely active, organised and busy. Dh has coped really well in exactly the same kind of way yours has: he does all the practical stuff ( well mainly, hasn't yet touched the iron!)

He's supported me through a very unpleasant legal case and provided financially.

But, he just can't do the emotional side. He really struggles with tears even though I rarely cry. He finds any discussion of how angry and sad I am impossible to deal with. I think it's mainly his nature, his own mother is very unemotional. It's also the fact that he can't fix it. So it's far easier to avoid discussing these things...for him.

I've coped by using my very lovely friends as my support. I've had a lot of good therapy and have a great GP. So my network is strong. I just cannot expect dh to be something he is not. I don't doubt his love and commitment for one second but he would totally hate to go to therapy and cannot be my emotional carer.
Do you have other people who can help fill this need?

A few things came out which I think I've downplayed but felt angry about without really knowing why.

Can you elaborate on this OP? What kind of things have come up that make you feel this way?

I would continue with therapy, go on your own. If you've been picking yourself up and coping with all this on your own this whole time, you're strong enough to keep doing it. Focus on yourself and your own mental health. Talk openly about your marriage in therapy, even if he doesn't want to go that doesn't stop you getting marriage councilling, if that makes sense.

He sounds like my OH, who's never had to deal with depression or any mental health issues before. It's really difficult for him to understand how I can't just 'snap out of it'.

I think Matilda has a very good point; an expectation of the other to be an emotional carer. Is this one step too far for him? My sTBXH absolutely expected me to be that person and the resentment eventually finished me.

I hope you can find a way through as it looks like you have many good things in your marriage.

He has always been like this, it's nothing new.
He doesn't do emotions. It's only been a problem when I've been very down and needed him to support me, telling me it'll be alright, we'll get through this, give me a big hug, that sort of support. I'm not needy, we're talking maybe 4 incidences in the last 10 years.

I don't need him as my emotional carer 24/7, I just want to feel he cares about me at all. He's so clinical about this. I'm not very good at asking for help because I'm so unlike my normal self, I never had to. So if I make myself and tell him I'm feeling crap he's distant. He doesn't react in a way that would show me he cares, he backs off and goes silent. He does the same to the children, if they display any strong emotions, he can't handle it.

I have good friends I can talk to and I have, and my therapist is very good, I'm just missing that connection in my relationship.

My therapist wants me to give him an ultimatum, come to therapy or I'll leave you. I can't do it as I don't want to leave him, I want to work though this. Also I don't want to force him to do it, what would be the point if he's not fully on board.

I wonder if he thinks couple counselling would do more harm than good because he thinks it would revolve around you telling him how he is failing you in difficult times, and this might lead him to say something he regrets? So he keeps carrying on until things go back to normal... It sounds very difficult from both sides.
During your 'good times' have you told him exactly what you need from him when in your bad place? He obviously doesn't understand it and might be worried about doing the wrong thing? I don't know why he would be unable to give you a hug when he can see you are depressed, unless he is unsure you want that contact.

I'll be frank, I decided to leave my then H over it and move out, he was primary carer tbf. He had emotionally stonewalled me for years and had caused me to slip to the depths of depression.

He had an epiphany about a week later and decided actually he did very much love me and did want to learn how change so that he could be emotionally supportive etc.

It's been a long 2 years, he still isn't great but the difference is now that he recognises it and he tries. He has had to start dealing with his childhood.

I think you have to decide whether or not it's a deal breaker for you. For me it was and he knew it.

The ultimatum seems a bit harsh, if it goes completely against his nature, which you say is how he's always been.

I can see you love him and want your relationship to work, but that suggestion of an ultimatum has come from your therapist. Sometimes what we want and what we need are different things.

I knew I couldn't spend the rest of my life with someone who wouldn't "be there" for me when I needed them most. It's not about them being great at it, it's the reluctance to even try and learn!! It just ate away at me, what about the DC have grown up and left?

Marshall
A few things came out which I think I've downplayed but felt angry about without really knowing why.

I meant two specific incidences when I've told him I needed him and was unavailable. First was many years ago when the shit hit the fan with my ptsd and I felt incredibly unsafe and told him I can't stop the thoughts going round and round in my head and felt suicidal. He patted my back and went away on a work trip for a week, leaving me alone with a newborn.
I've never quite forgotten it.
The other incident was recently, when I stopped medication and suddenly felt a lot worse. He didn't talk to me at all, went to sleep.

I did call a friend in both cases, they came and were very helpful, got me through the rough patch. I just think it should have been him. I get angry now when I think about it, and this anger has only come out recently through therapy. I can't 'forget' about it again.

I have supported him through a very bad episode not so long ago, so he knows what it feels like to be in a bad place.

He's right, how would he stop you killing your self if you decided to? Are you using suicide as a threat?

He patted my back and went away on a work trip for a week, leaving me alone with a newborn.
Was it actually an option for him not to go though? Does he know how serious things like that could potentially be? Looking at it from an uninformed point of view, you got through it, so how bad could it have been? (Not what I think, BTW.) Does he feel helpless in these situations? Does he need a lot of guidance from you for future episodes? (Some MH issues in our family, so I can empathise from both sides.)

Random, that's exactly it. I do worry about what happens when the dc have left home.
I'm not sure it is a dealbreaker for me. Just coming to terms with the complete refusal to go to therapy.
I'm not sure what stops him giving me a hug. I think there are some mechanisms at work for both of us of which we are not aware, but without having someone looking at it from the outside, I don't think we can break the pattern.
He has had a horrible childhood but plays it down all the time whereas I have worked through my issues and I think I'm quite self aware now.
His childhood isn't something he would ever talk about, not even with me - I had to almost force something out of him during his bad patch - so maybe it's his fear of this stuff coming up in couple therapy.

Footle, of course he couldn't stop me, that's not the point. I didn't use suicide as a threat.
I asked him why he went away, if he wasn't aware that it was a dangerous time for me, and he replied was aware but he wouldn't have been able to stop me. To me, that is a horrible answer.

Fritz, as we've been there before, I think he must have known how serious it could be the second time around. Yet his reaction was the same. I'm not a drama queen, it takes me ages to actually admit I can't cope anymore.
Years ago when I admitted myself the psychiatrist asked him to come in to talk to both of us together. He explained what had happened to me and what I needed. I thought it was very reassuring and that DH had understood.
This time round I didn't wait long before getting help and only had one rough episode after I came off the medication. The one time I needed him to reassure me, talk to me, hold my hand, if necessary all night. He didn't.

but is someone else responsible for emotionally supporting another adult?

surely you can only be responsible for your own emotions - though I do get that you are sad he doesn't give you emotional support. (but is it really the 'child' in you that never got support years ago and not so much to do with whats happening now?)

i'm frankly astonished your counsellor gave you an ultimatum to give him - 'come to counselling or i'll leave you'. why isn't she helping you to learn to support yourself?

some people are just not very good at emotional support - surely that's what your counsellor is for?

why isn't she helping you to learn to support yourself?
Indeed....

as we've been there before, I think he must have known how serious it could be the second time around.
What happened the first time though? And you say you think he must have known... Didn't you discuss it in a way which he could process and understand?
I'm not having a dig at you, it just seems from what you have said that you expect him to understand things which he obviously doesn't. And surely the only one who can explain this to him is you. If he hasn't seen any big consequences from previous incidents he's unlikely to recognise when you are finding something very difficult. ?

Fritz, the psychiatrist had a conversation with him and explained it.
My therapist asked me to bring him along months ago, it's a normal part of therapy. He refused.
Since then we've talked about why I feel angry at him and this came up.
She thinks we need an outside look into the dynamics as she suspects we are stuck in some loop.
I do need emotional support from him, not very often, but why not in tough times?
As I said, I've been there for him, talking, holding him, etc. I thought that's quite normal in a relationship.
It doesn't mean I'm responsible for supporting him, I do it because I love him.
My therapist is helping me to support myself, but being completely self sufficient and not relying on anyone for anything is a legacy of my childhood and not a very healthy one. One that landed me in the depression mess.

"I think there are some mechanisms at work for both of us of which we are not aware, but without having someone looking at it from the outside, I don't think we can break the pattern.
He has had a horrible childhood but plays it down all the time whereas I have worked through my issues and I think I'm quite self aware now."

This sounds very important. I'm not sure I could be with someone who didn't face up to things and work through them, although, in fairness, that's partly because the people responsible for my horrible childhood were like that and it would remind me of them.

Maybe being in a different place over dealing with your issues, meaning that you've developed more as a person, is making you feel less connected to him than you were, and then you've got the (imo reasonable) anger on top of that.

It sounds like therapy really helps you, so I'd suggest keeping at it on your own and trying to keep an open mind as to what you'll need to do about this in the end, even if it means finishing things.

In my experience, being unable to move on from someone for letting you down, and then not apologising for letting you down, is something that sits there in the subconscious causing problems whether you dwell on it or not, so even if it turns out you can't get past his lack of support, it's better to know that you can't, so that you can decide what to do, rather than have it poison everything quietly over years and years.

Other than that, I have no suggestions, I wish I had. If someone doesn't want to do any introspection, that's that.

There could be lots of reasons why the counsellor is suggesting joint-counselling eg so the counsellor can help the OP and her DH to bridge the gap in their understanding; to help OP differentiate between 'her' issues and the ones caused by the relationship. One person can't fix or carry a relationship so the OP needs her DH on board.