Marriage problems

[Sadandsoconfused]

Have nc for this.

I've been married for 19 years, together for 25, so since start of uni, have 2DC.
I've had two major episodes of depression, both caused by scary health stuff. One several years ago and one recently and I've had therapy for depression, anxiety and PTSD for a year now.
In recent weeks my marriage has been the focus of my therapy work and it's been very tough. A few things came out which I think I've downplayed but felt angry about without really knowing why.

I'm a strong person normally, a coper, and DH is used to that. There were two separate incidences when I was absolutely rock bottom with depression and he didn't do anything. He probably would have let me kill myself. It was so scary for me what was going on in my brain that I self admitted to a mh hospital as I felt I couldn't keep myself safe.

Went on tablets and recovered fairly quickly. Had years of no problems but recently, due to another health issue I became depressed again.

DH has again not been emotionally supportive at all. He actually said he would not be able to stop myself if I wanted to kill myself anyway. It shocked me and brought back that previous time when I so needed him to be my rock and he's just not getting it.

He does help a lot around the house, is incredibly hands on with the children, and has never complained about the state of the house. Sometimes I've been so bad I wasn't able to do anything all day except the school run.

My therapist has recommended to go for couple therapy together, but DH is absolutely against it. We've had several talks about it and I can't reach him, he's adament it would do more harm than good.
I don't know if we'll manage to get this sorted on our own, I doubt it as he doesn't get what I need from him.
He's not talking about emotions at all, and when I do he goes silent. No hugs or comfort, just awkwardness and maybe an attempt to hold my hand when I'm crying, but mostly nothing. I don't cry normally but recently during my three attempts to talk to him I did.

He's a very rational, analytical and introvert person and I'm outgoing and spontaneous and 97% of the time I'm ok. The 3% when I need him I feel he's not there to catch me and I feel so lonely.
He's always been like this so I feel bad for bringing it up, but it's replicating something from my childhood (lack of care, support, safety) which makes this extra hard and triggering.

I love him very much and want to repair this, but I can't do it all on my own. I'm sure my way of dealing with things don't help, getting angry doesn't help but I'm not aggressive or something, I turn it inwards where it is doing a lot of harm.
I also can't tell him exactly what I need when I'm in such a bad place plus it makes me feel like I'm talking to one of the dc and he shouldn't need micromanaging how to support me.

Has anyone got experience with therapy refusers and how can I make him understand how important this is to me? He is all supportive of me going to therapy on my own, but I feel he thinks this is my issue, I need to go there, get fixed and all will be well again.
I feel so angry about it all and now have to swallop the anger because I don't want to argue in front of the DC.

DH has reverted back to 'all is fine' mode after last night's talk and I can sense him being irritated about me being slightly off with him because 'we talked about it'.

Sorry it's been such a novel.

... unless... I've just filled in the gaps all the time and was fine with it.
Until now.
I know that is the dilemma, he won't change unless he wants to. And he might not even be able to even if he wants to.
Will be very open about everything tonight. Maybe he will have something of an awakening.

Thank you lovely vipers! Lots to think about.

Am going to pm you.

Sorry nothing significant to add but admiring the helpfulness on this thread.
I am looking at it from the 'DH' side (in that I am a man) probably with my own 'issues' but my efforts of being caring and supportive have not been fully appreciated. I have managed some 'crap' comments and failed to judge situations correctly in the past. I am about to become an 'ex' but I would like to learn. I don't want to derail the discussion but I think that OP's DH should be encouraged, not forced, to get into discussions to help him see your side of the situation better. Therapy may be a bit 'heavy handed'. I really hope you can make things work.

Just an alternative view, from someone whose DP has depression.

I found it so hard keeping all the plates spinning (being the main earner, dealing with 2 young DC & elderly parents, work, commuting, all the house stuff) that I had very little to give.

I was trying to keep my own head above water & just felt that DP's illness would have drained my few remaining reserves.

I felt his illness had such a far-reaching impact on all our lives that I needed to put boundaries up around what I could offer, or it would completely take over. In which case we would both go under. I also realised I couldn't "fix" him & he needed professional help.

Not being unsympathetic, but it's very hard living with someone who has depression.

your therapist told you to issue him with an ultimatum of therapy or leave? How dare they !

I don't blame your dh for not wanting to go to her/your therapy sessions either.

If he has always been like this is not fair to force him to do therapy he doesn't want to do it's counter productive - therapy isnt for every one. I hated it. You've spent 25 years with a man who you now say needs to change because of a trait he has had the whole entire time you've known him.

My mother and father (separated) had/has depression and tbh both of them are incredibly selfish people. The illness has changed them both irreversibly. They both blame every one else for their shit lives. My mothers therapist actually asked myself and my bother to attend a few sessions so she could get the gist of our family dynamics but we both declined. We both did not want to be more entrenched with her illness. It was suffocating. My mother used to say that she would kill herself too, on two occasions tried to gang herself - and failed and was commuted twice on different occasions.

I'm not in any way saying this is the same for your dh.

You can not force some one to let some complete stranger in to their minds because you think it would help you.

I think it's narcissistic sorry .

OP, sorry but it sounds like your DH is actually quite good - "except for those few occasions", as you keep repeating. Well, no one is perfect and it seems to me that you're expecting perfection from this man. He can't do that, can't hug you, doesn't know what to do when you cry. He's probably not alone amongst men, and you'll find loads of women here who have far greater issues with their DHs.

You also say he has always been like this - so you knew this when you married him. I actually think it's rather unfair to push a 97% "ok" man to produce the missing 3% just because suddently you need that 3%, too. As a pp said, get this kind of support from others (friends, other family).

I am only up to you being suicidal and him leaving you to go on a work trip - because he would not have been able to stop you? What about the baby? It must take nerves of steel to leave a depressed person with a newborn. I get why you would resent that.

Now I am up to why you had depression- nearly dying after having that baby. I would be struggling with that - that is not loving, considerate behaviour. I would be wondering why on Earth he thought that was okay?

What got you into a suicidal state in the first place? Does your DH have good reason to fear the therapist?

I think, with your therapist, you have probably done great work to get you to a point where you can begin to articulate your needs. One of the main points my counsellor kept making was that it wasn't about DH. I'm genuinely concerned that some well-meaning but inexperienced posters will convince you to make it all about your DH again. There's a relationship book that's often recommended on here and one of the first points it makes is that women often try to fix everything and when they feel they should still be trying harder, making more allowances, they're usually already way past healthy boundaries.

outabout
thank you. I'm sorry you're splitting up.

MoreProsecco,
I certainly don't think he can fix me, I'm doing that myself I hope, with help of therapy.

Jazzy
Of course my DH does not know about what the therapist suggested to me. Why would I tell him she thinks I should give him an ultimatum? It's between her and me, and I decided against it.
I am not looking to force him into therapy with me, as I've said several times. I was trying to understand why he is so resistant. The idea of letting someone into your mind is interesting, and it may be part of his reasoning.
I don't know what's narcissistic about wanting to go to therapy together. You're right, it's not for everyone, but he has never tried it.

Iona
I'm aware there are women with far bigger problems with their DHs out there, but I think it's valid to post here with my issues, as they are important to me.
I don't think my anger about these occasions is unreasonable.

Cocoa
He thought it was ok because he didn't get it. I told him and he still didn't understand what it meant.

I've talked about it with him tonight and he said he misjudged this situation completely. He knew me to be strong and resilient and had no idea how to cope with me being weak. So he trusted me to pick myself up.
He said he felt the weaker one in our relationship and has always felt supported and safe. I'm the one who's good in a crisis usually and he has always relied on that.
I think we need to talk loads more but he has at least started talking about his emotions.

Well that is a good start!!! Yes to loads more talking, I really hope he grasps just how much he has let you down and that it wasn't ok and that he needs to learn how to step up for the next time (if it ever happens).

I think in general men are less likely to want to get involved in therapy. I have incurable cancer - my husband managed one session, and despite his need to talk to people outside of the situation he just won't entertain going back.
Is it possible that if you have a long connection to this therapist he will feel "ganged" up on - as she will have built up her own picture of him from your point of view.
He just sounds unequipped to be what you need in those times, so his support is done with practical measures. It certainly doesn't sound as if he doesn't care, it probably just scares the hell out of him.
Dealing with the stresses of my illness has put my husband in to depression, resulting in us trying to get by on our own problems with little left over to support each other emotionally. I'm going through treatment for a second time - but its different - this time I feel I am on my own.
This is probably no help at all but I see both sides.

I honestly can't see any decent therapist suggesting you back your self in to a corner with a threat. I think couples counvikking with her would be awful.

My dh is a fantastic bloke, he has the patience of a saint and puts up with a lot but there is a tiny slither of his personality that I don't understand and I'm not going to force myself in to that space to find out why he behaves like that (to do with his father I think)

Sorry maybe narc was too strong a word but I think it's stretching it to expect him to go to treatment - because that's what it is - to inadvertently make you feel better.

I havnt jumped out of a plane but I know I wouldn't like it.
Serious about your therapist though - I had a psychologist and no way would she have ever tried to back me in a corner like that.

What if you did threaten that and he walked and you were devastated. What the fuck would she say then?

I'm glad you have had a chat.

Two instances that dh upset me

1. went to his new job thirty mins after dropping me off at hospital as was having an etopic pregnancy after being told for a decade I would never be able to get pregnant . We had been with each other about a year. Was supposedly madly in love.

2)Three years later was heavily bleeding and in serious pain to the point I was shaking. Asked him to take my walk in clinic and he was huffing and asked we to wait a few hours so he wouldn't miss his Sunday football. Walk in clinic rushed me to hospital in ambulance as was having another etopic this one was rupturing. Dh took dd home and watched the football on TV while I was in theatre. His dad told him to move his arse and get back.

He honestly is not like this 99%of the time but on those too occasions he was a bad prick.

Hope things get better for you all

Just throwing an idea out there, is there any possibility of ASD in your DH? A quick look at the typical 'traits' might be a bit of a clue. There is also the 'fact' that men see situations quite differently to women and may simply not 'see' what is totally obvious to you. I am not trying to make excuses but being relatively 'analytical' myself I want to know WHY something is so, even if I don't agree or can change things.
One aspect of ASD is that in strong emotional situations the brain can 'freeze' and not comprehend anything but is otherwise 'fine'. Online 'tests' are available and you could even complete one for him giving answers you think fit. Takes about 10 mins. Although not as accurate it is an avenue to think about. IF this is the situation then knowing about it can help you both work around it and through talking hopefully you can get back on track.
Picking up on Winnie's comment, you can't necessarily fix your DH but being aware of the way he ticks you can work around things and get him to help by explaining exactly what you need from him.

I was and still am indeed quite unable to say that it's not been acceptable.
I think this is the key. Your therapist should make you secure in this for your own benefit in this situation. I don't think dh is going to want to go to a counselling session in which she 'helps you' express yourself in the conversation with him- I suspect he might feel rather harangued and get defensive. He doesn't sound like a bad person, he's stayed and helped in his own way, unfortunately you haven't told him exactly what you need, when you need it. You have changed and you want him to change too.
Hopefully the conversation at home will continue positively - he sounds very open and honest about it.

thing is I'm not very emotional. I have learned through therapy to let my emotions out and to ask for help.
This is important progress.
I don't know about your relationship, but I do know that not needing any support at all for 97% of the time but needing it really badly for that 3% is not a healthy pattern. Much better to ask for help more frequently when you are not at your wits end. Then dh may be able to learn to respond.... 1) more opportunities, 2) less pressure to get it right.

I agree, what a lot of thought people are putting into their replies on this thread. Good luck op.

outabout
Yes. I've also had a few PMs asking me that. There is a good chance and I think it could contribute to our problems communicating. There are other aspects of it that fit too.

Fritz
telling him what I need, in clear terms, is what I didn't do and that's a learned thing as I had no chance of getting my needs met as a child. I just carried on coping with everything on my own.
I have changed and will hopefully manage to ask for what I need more often and not just when the shit hits the fan.

Thistly
Thanks, I realise this has been a rather unhealthy balance. I have been his safely net much more frequently and maybe this imbalance has contributed to me feeling angry.

Hi sadand.... the way you are talking about unmet needs there makes me think that nonviolent communication might be something you and your dh could do together.... it's not therapy, but helps form constructive patterns of communication.
sharedspace.org.uk/

Not sure if this outfit is anywhere near you?

I thought I‘d give you an update after 7 months.

I changed therapist in the summer and the new one got bombarded with DH stuff early on because I’d just had a particularly bad evening trying to talk to DH.
The therapist said, he‘s either a total arsehole or on the spectrum (well, he didn‘t use the word arsehole, but that was the gist of it).

I started reading extensively into ASD and the first book I read (Maxine Asten - The other half of Aspergers Syndrome) had me in tears on the sofa, there was just so much that was familiar. And it was put in words how I felt, with words I didn‘t have. So many aspects of ASD fit, and have been problems in our relationship, not just communication.

Well, he‘s on the spectrum. He has read one of my books and found his own literature about it and read it over the summer months. He‘s done online tests and it‘s obvious. Since I read the books, especially about the childhood criteria, which fit 100% it was already clear to me.

I‘ve always known him to be an introvert and a bit of a crazy Maths professor, but because he was so hands-on with the kids and household I never seriously suspected ASD. It’s a spectrum, I think I never fully understood what that really means.
The rigidity in certain aspects (food, routine) was noticeable, but it was never an issue for me. Well, I used to have an ED and I‘m not exactly normal around food either.

He has come a long way since I met him (at 21) and I have covered for him in social situations until he was more able to manage them, with limits.

The way he talked to me when I was emotionally broken was so confusing, because deep down I knew he didn‘t mean to hurt me but he did.

Afterwards he was totally unaware. I just couldn‘t make sense of the way he reacted to an emergency situation, it confused me no end that he didn‘t get it.
He is emotionally unable to react to certain situations and I‘ve since remembered a few more bizarre situations which now make perfect sense to me.

I have learned how to talk to him so he isn’t feeling threatened (no eye contact, walking while talking etc) telling him when I need a hug as he misinterprets expressions of extreme sadness, thinking it‘s anger - and it saved our marriage.
My anger has totally vanished, we have talked lots in small doses.
We went away for a weekend, just the two of us, something we‘ve never done before, and it was great to talk without time pressure or kids.

He has opened up about his childhood, as we looked at the diagnostic criteria together, and it seems he put a lot down to a miserable childhood, when in fact, his ASD probably contributed just as much.

He won‘t seek a formal diagnosis, because (he doesn‘t trust doctors and) things are ok for him as they are. He should have had help in childhood but that‘s another matter.

I‘m still in therapy but a lot better.

Thanks to those of you who pointed towards ASD, I needed a lot of prodding to finally look into it.
Not Sadandsoconfused anymore 🙂

Very pleased to read your update op!

such a happy update

It's good to hear how you've improved your relationship by acting on the advice you asked for. Doesn't seem to happen all that often.