I think I hate him

[Pwc12]

I'm so fed up of my dad. I am generally a happy person but he just brings me down constantly. He's the most arrogant self absorbed person I have ever met.

For some background, he physically abused my mum for years. They split when I was 7 (20 years ago).

He got into a new relationship and physically abused her too. I phoned the police one night at 13 as I heard him battering her and was terrified. Had to go to court and stopped seeing him for about a year. In that time I got letters begging for forgiveness and threats that I would ultimately be the one losing out as my sisters would get all the stuff from him and I'd lose out.

He has a terrible temper and used to scream at me until I wet myself. Myself and sisters were terrified of him. There's still a really tense atmosphere around him.

Anyway I started seeing him again after the letters and sure enough he did improve but there was still a tense atmosphere. He now has a new wife who he verbally abuses but for some reason (money?) she's happy.

Now I have two children and he's keen to be a part of their life. He picks my daughter up from school and she went to his house but I was told by my sister who was also in the house that all my dad done was shout at my daughter for various things like not sitting properly whilst eating dinner, not sitting still whilst watching tv, not being able to read his homework reading book etc.

Tonight I was over and we were talking about how my kids look like their father (my OH) and his sister who are both overweight and the conversation went like so...

Him "there's no way to say this without sounding unkind but I'm really nervous they (my kids) end up really fat. I mean look at My daughter and her appetite I don't want her to grow up to be a big fat woman. "
All I manage to say is no I don't think so.
Then he says "how much does OH sister eat? Is it a lot or just the wrong kinds of things?"

I just say I'm not sure.

But it's so hurtful and we are not close that it would ever feel ok to say this to me.

I feel maybe I'm over reacting as I don't like him as a person and the things he done in my childhood but I don't know. I don't want to tell OH as I don't want to hurt him.

I honestly just feel pure hate towards him and I don't want him to be part of my kids life. He's so negative and he used to make comments about my weight growing up and it made me feel really insecure. He's very very vain.

For background, my dad eats very unhealthily but has an active job so is a healthy weight. I'm a healthy weight and so are my kids. My daughter will eat anything and snacks on fruit. She is often hungry but will have fruit.

Not sure what I want from this but I just feel so hurt by his comments but feel like I can't do anything. He's constantly phoning me and I ignore him half the time but then he just turns up on my door.

There's countless other times he's made me feel awful. When my daughter was born he made comments about her looks and how he hoped they changed when she grew up.

I hate feeling this hatred towards him but just having to put up with it. I have sat him down about 5 years ago and told him exactly how I felt. How he makes me uncomfortable etc and he was hurt but nothing changed and it's as though it was just never spoken about again.

Are the comments tonight hurtful or do you think I'm so hurt due to the accumulation of things he's done and said in the past?

I'm a wimp. There was an argument. He massively overstepped some boundaries. My new husband stepped in and was very reasonable but very firm. No contact. No phone calls. No letters. He left it as if I may change my mind. However I didn't. He still sees my children from my first marriage but via my ex husband who won't facilitate anything other than a basic quick take them out for a bit to eat. Much as he hates my guts he agreed that no overnights and only short visits as he can't be trusted with his temper. My little one with husband 2 hasn't seen him since she was a baby and doesn't know he exists. The older kids have started complaining about him. Not wanting to see him. He's reverting back to type. Losing temper. Bossing them about. Being too opinionated. I have told them any time they want to stop I am right behind them. It was my sisters who used to wet themselves. I became an alcoholic. Dry now for over 5 years. I can see my sisters going the same way. Shite mental health. Drink too much. Trying to recreate an idyllic childhood that we never had. It's a fucked up situation. I lay the blame mostly with him. My mum who chucked him out after many affairs swinging etc has never recovered from the abuse. She's bi polar and lives alone. Pm me anytime

Wow, that's so sad.

My mum also had some mental health issues which I can honestly say are related to the abuse he gave her. Truly awful.

What really pisses me off is why then does he not face his karma for all the shit he's caused.

I guess his family all secretly disliking him, avoiding him and never acting themselves or comfortable around him is perhaps his karma. Especially when he's so desperate to create the perception to outsiders of a perfect family.

See I actually hope there is a major argument which can lead to nocontact. I would happily let my OH do the telling too if he could.

I'm thinking the next time he says anything even remotely offensive or rude to call him out on it. His reaction will be shock horror that anyone could talk back to him especially myself.

Then afterwards just completely distance myself.

That's how it plays out in my mind although I would probably freeze on the spot and just accept his abuse.

See I'm not a big drinker but the sister that wants to please him no matter what is and it wouldn't surprise me if she did become alcoholic one day. Or rely on it more than Is healthy.

What I do find is that I'm unable to handle confrontation of any kind and I think the reason for it is due to him.

I read a blog post today in a similar topic. If I find it I'll link to it.

Your father is an abuser, he shouted until you wet yourself

Please take your children away from this man

I say this as a woman who CHOSE to cut all contact with a narc father. I am keeping my children safe by staying away from him. They gain more from not having a narcissist GF than they lose by not having a GF.

There's no two ways about this.

I genuinely can't believe you think there's an option here or that you allow him to collect your children

My father was probably less a dive and narcissistic than some of your descriptions but there's no way I will see him.

Talk to your family,DH and begin to severe ties.

Your childrens safety comes first.

Thanks fox, yes if you get the link then please post it!

I guess I let him see us as his temper has definitely calmed over the years. there's no way I could imagine him losing control in the ways he did when I was a child.

Yes he shouts at my DC but not in a terrifying kind of way and certainly not in a way that makes them scared.

But it's in a constant way over trivial Things which I think wears her down and therefore I don't like it. But I don't think she's scared by it.

I guess when it's the norm for your family and everyone just accepts it, it's easier to just ignore it or attempt to avoid it as much as possible.

Other the other hand he plays with DC & spends time with them entertaining them and making them smile. So it's not so clear cut.

When I speak to my DH, he just says that he thinks it's due to things in the past and that I should try to leave them there. And that he is my dad after all.

Cutting contact seems unimaginable to him although he does agree that we should reduce it.

When I spoke to him tonight he ended the conversation with "just before you go, I just want you to know that I'm such a nice generous GENUINE guy" which is him taking the piss out of my dad as this is genuinely how he describes himself in conversation

www.romper.com/p/i-wont-let-my-kids-have-a-relationship-with-their-toxic-grandfather-47661?llid=3zyP8&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=pro&utm_term=9jko&utm_campaign=liq

Took a while to find and is more severe than your situation but is worth a read

Thanks I appreciate it.

Good grief, he sounds awful.

First off, read the first post here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/698029-Right-listen-up-everybody

So he doesn't shout as loudly or as angrily at your child as he used to shout at you? It's still abuse. NO SHOUTING is acceptable, anything else is not. Your child might not seem upset but it's still potentially damaging to be treated like that. Add to it the abuse he deals out to his current wife, which your child is also seeing, and there's a lot of damage going on there.

You don't need a big argument to go no contact. All you need is the realisation that he is abusing your child and that it's causing damage, and that's that. Tell him you don't want to see him for a while because he abuses his wife and shouts at your child, and then if he tries to draw you into a discussion about it say, "this is not up for discussion". If he comes to your house don't open the door. Tell him to go away and if he doesn't, phone the police.

You can get counselling on the NHS but you do have to wait for a while to get it. Go to your GP and ask for it. They might try to fob you off with anti depressants but if you keep saying you want counselling you should be ok.

If your sister is desperate to keep him happy and gives you any fallout because of this, point out to her that he's controlling her and abusing her, and suggest she gets some counselling too. This is no way to live.

I haven't seen my parents for nearly four years now. My father is much the same as yours, my mother is narcissistic and blames everyone but herself for almost everything. It's been so much better without them in my life.

I only read the op but my goodness what a horrid person
Keep this man well away from your children op He sounds toxic and abusive
As for going nc just fade away. Be busy phone less. Take longer and longer to respond. Don't go round
if you say why your going n/c it gives him a chance to be nasty-
Fill your life with other people who are a positive influence on you and your kids
You can do this. It's hard but it's worth it because the other choice is to let him ruin your kids life
Have you got support in RL?

Thanks.

Your right, he is horrid. Writing this thread has brought back some truly awful memories of him scaring me beyond belief over trivial things.

You know the things that your kids do that irritate you, like my daughter drops the toilet roll and shouts on me to come and pick it up and I'll think to myself "for god sake!", well a similiar thing happened which I can remember, but it wasn't me dropping the toilet roll, I couldn't physically reach it in my grans house so I shouted for help over and over (I was 6 I think) & he came & roared at me.

It was terrifying and truly unnecessary.

It affects my parenting now too as I'll always think to myself "don't be like him". If I ever get annoyed at DD and snap at her or tell her off for something I feel terrified I'm becoming him and that she'll be scared of me. But obviously she does need told off at times. It's hard to see where that line of discipline and abuse is for me sometimes. Even though I know I never abuse my kids, I'm terrified of them being scared of me.

What makes me feel really bad is that when I witness him shouting at my DD for trivial things, I just sit there staring awkwardly in another direction as I'm too scared to speak up. For my own child

I know if I say something I'd be so scared I'd burst into tears. And he'd jump on that. That I'm clearly mentally unstable or too emotional or too sensitive. But I'm not I'm just too terrified because of him.

I wouldn't allow my dc to be shouted at by a carer. There are ways of disciplining them that don't involve shouting.
Can you enlist the help of your sister or dh to get him to stop doing this?
If not, I would reduce contact considerably - maybe cutting it altogether.

In terms of real life support - I have my mum who I love and get on really well with. We've always been closest and my other sisters closer with my dad even though they openly slate him behind his back but they still love him I guess.

I love him too just not in the same way. I think I dislike him more. Or dislike the way I feel around him.

So I have my mum who doesn't speak to him or get on with him. She just says I need to stop pussyfooting around him. Stand up to him.

But it's easy for her to say so. She left 20 years ago. It's been a hard time for her. She left with 3 kids. No job no money. We lived in a refuge for a year then my gran for another year until we got our own house.

We moved school multiple times. But she done all of this because she had to get away from his abuse. and I'm so glad she did.

It's almost easier to leave when it's a husband. But when it's a parent it's less common and therefore people don't understand why you could cut someone out of your life when nothing particularly major has happened recently.

Do you know what's really scary, since starting this thread I've had a minor shaking in my hands.

I'm anticipating his reaction when I start to ignore his calls. When I tell him we're not coming on the holiday he assumed that we were going on. When he realises there's an issue.

He will ask me outright "is there a problem?"
Or he will say or do something that I find rude or offensive and I'll say something.

But even the thought of it makes me tremble and shake and almost cry so how would I manage to explain what the problem was or stand up to him.

But you don't need to explain or stand up to him.
You just make yourself unavailable. The big showdown doesn't need to happen.
In some cases the showdown IS required but it sounds like it's not in this case. And don't let your DH turn your dads behaviour into a joke, it's really not.

So when he asks outright what the problem is, as he'll realise there's an issue, do I just so no issue sorry I've just been busy?

Next year he wants to book a big family holiday. If we say no and go on our own family holiday he'll know there's an issue.

I have done the whole ignoring phone calls thing before and he would say I called you yesterday and I would say oh yeah I was busy and he'd say "well do you know it's rude not to call someone back?"

He knew I was avoiding him and turned on the charm. Coming round constantly, taking us out for dinners and lunches. Constantly in contact so that only so much ignoring for being busy could work.

In the last week I've seen him 3 times and my DD 4 times. He asks 1-2 times a week to collect her from school.

So to go from that to hardly speaking and then not booking holiday etc, he's going to know and confront me.

Do I just keep saying there's no issue I'm just really busy sorry!

I personally think you need to take the bull by the horns if hes not going to let you go LC without constant questioning and shit that will draw out and to be honest be just as damaging to you, your children and your wider relationships. You will constantly be in the wrong, constantly be questioned Nd having to justify and makes excuses. This is exhausting, stressful and quite honestly you will give up.
Polite is good with people who get it - people who are all over your boundaries already - forget it.

You need to prepare a statement that you use over and over - hopefully someone clever here can help.

I agree polite is good for rational people for bullies it won't cut it.

That's what I'm thinking too. It's just makes me nervous but I'm sick of putting up with it so I'm think I'm ready.

OP, this could have been written by me.

My dad lives 5 minutes 'round the corner, he was physically and emotionally abusive, he bought his way into a relationship - it's power play, and without going into a book's worth of details, I have real issues from growing up around him.

I decided enough was enough and wrote all my thoughts down to him in a letter and posted it telling him not to contact me again. So far, he hasn't.

Cut contact. Be brave. You'll feel so much better once you've done it. Don't let this man bully you or buy his power over you x

DM me if you need some help structuring something

Shakey - thanks so much for your response. I can't believe how common it is.

I've spent some time reading about narsatistic behaviour and OH my goodness I genuinely cannot believe what I'm reading.

Every single trait I read is just a description of him. Unbelievable.

It was a real light bulb moment but really scary too.

I'm not sure what to do.

I feel like I need people's support. Especially if I am to cut him out or write him a letter.

I was texting my sister earlier (not the one who constantly pleases him). She was bitching about him for some reason and I said "I think I'm honestly done with him. I don't want to visit or go round anymore. We aren't going on the holiday".

I told her that I don't want it affecting my kids and that's where I draw the line.

She said "Being their grandad it won't effect them I don't think. I think it's us who still feel the way we do when he shouts cos we've seen other stuff when we were younger. They'll just think he's a grumpy old man."

She said she'd still continue to go round even though she hates it and feels unable to act herself or speak up.

So no one quite understands or feels the same as me to the same extent.

What especially ran true about the narcasstic qualities were that he's unable to take ANY criticism which is so true and which makes confronting him so so difficult as I need to be prepared for a tirade of abuse ripping my personality to shreds.

None feels the same because they are not as strong as you or as concerned about the effects on their children
Do not think you are over sensitive or similar.
They are stuck in FOG and children learn by what they see. They will see him abusing you, they will see him abusing his wife, they will be abused themselves. And more to the point they will see you tolletsying the abuse and indeed taking then back for more.

Your sister is wrong when she says his shouting and abusiveness won't affect his grandchildren. Of course it will.

You don't have to speak to him at all. Tell him by letter or text that you have had enough of him and ask him not to come to your house, or to phone you. Ask that all future communication is by text or email. And then get your husband to screen any texts or emails you get from him so you don't have to read his nastiness and abuse.

If he turns up at your house anyway, don't let him in. Tell him if he doesn't leave you'll call the police, and then do it. Refuse to talk with him, don't engage, and you will be fine. Honest.

It will be tough - but you will be fine - and long term you will be great x