The usual

[tiredoldcliche]

Been together 20 years & married 13 years that time. 2 DC 12 & 9.

Like many others I find myself feeling a lack of connection with my wife. I work away quite a lot and find apart from the kids there seems to be no happiness or affection that I feel or I see from her. There is what I would describe as small talk. I certainly never feel any happiness or genuine affection in my direction. This makes me sad and then it just snowballs from day to day stuck in my own negative thoughts.

We are both similar in that we are not the most expressive people, nor romantic but I do and have always thought that if did not make any effort to have the odd hug and kiss there would be nothing at all to distinguish us as a couple. Sex is the same, if I didn't initiate it would rarely/never happen, nothing is reciprocated and kissing is cut short/avoided. If I try to talk about it it's shut down as she just doesn't seem to be able or want to talk about anything.

I have always suspected she won't talk because she doesn't want to tell the truth but she says that's rubbish and I overanalyse things. I don't believe that anymore but am unsure what that means for us really ?

Dunno why I am posting really !

ChuckDaffodils

Are you drunk or is being a confrontational old bag just your usual style?

Are you drunk or is being a confrontational old bag just your usual style?

Sorry - so suggesting some care and attention to his loved one is being a confrontational old bag? Interesting angle you have on life. And your sum contribution has been what exactly? Oh yes, to have a pop at me.

Esoteric- can I ask (very genuinely) why you would choose to limit your relationship indefinitely following a hurtful episode rather than overcome it or separate? I ask because MN has actually opened my eyes to so many (almost all) women who chose or are still choosing to stay in a relationship but withdraw to some extent over such a long period of time. I can understand how it starts but not so easily how this kind of 'limp mode' relationship continues, without deterioration or an affair or a decision to separate? Only I think this capacity is something I am only beginning to recognise. And also - when things come to a head - what is the response - is it denial, self deception or actual deception to avoid addressing? I just think it's a really important phenomenon that (esp women?) in marriages experience without really questioning- if you see what I mean? I'd really welcome some insight.

I'm normally very nice to male posters but here I just can't help thinking you've been married 20 years, My marriage consisted of me jumping through hoops to keep husband happy with nothing in return just for him to dump me in the menopause because i felt ghastly and wasn't making the effort any more. He didn't even try just dumped me.
It takes two to tango, if your life is boring don't expect your wife to sort it out DO SOMETHING for gods sake, initiate counselling, do anything but don't just sit there.

complicated in our case because of work/business. I think many women are reluctant to leave without a "good reason" and timing plays a part too . In my case it would be possible Im sure to "overcome" I guess something though in me doesnt want to. Im still undecided to be honest, but a lot of it is to do with practical stuff too. In all honesty I think its far easier to make the decision if you actually "hate" someone or serious abuse is occurring. If I had known 100% back in 2006 what was going on at that point I think I would have called it a day.

I'm really sorry to hear of your experience Meemaid - which sounds totally shitty. But to be fair to OP - he isn't saying his life is boring or he needs a hobby - he's concerned to have a loving affectionate intimate relationship with his wife. Your earlier description (loyalty friendship and mutual love of children) is more like the relationship you might have with the grandparent. Ultimately I have seen zombie relationships- but have assumed that both parties were happy living in limbo. No one expects the honeymoon to never end - but it seems that one partner can be 'happy' in this state for years?

I would be direct and ask her if she wants to divorce, if you are prepared to hear the answer.

If you were a female poster a lot of people would assume the lack of kissing and sex and not talking would mean an affair.

Does she do all of the grunt work all of the time? For eg cooking, cleaning, ironing, food shopping, driving the kids everywhere, taking them for their clothes, shoes and school stuff?

Does she get a weekend lay in while you take the kids out or have time to see her friends?

Thank you user..498 - that's quite perceptive. I wonder if it is having to trust someone and yet not quite trusting them, having doubts over things which are entirely deniable by the other person? It's a really hard one, and most would say you just have to trust in spite of doubts because without trust the relationship cant continue. So things limb due to 'half-trust'?

*limp not limb

IMO it's incredibly easy to fall into the no affection cycle. So e.g. When you first get together you perhaps have a habit of going to bed together every night, because it's the honeymoon phase and life is exciting. Added to which you do things together because you don't have other commitments such as children. Then life happens, children happen, and after the baby is born you spend weeks, or even months wondering wtf happened, especially if the baby doesn't sleep and you're both awake several times a night. And before you know it you haven't had sex for a couple of months, and one of you is sleeping in the spare room because at least one of you might as well get some sleep.

But the problem then is that you no longer have that intimacy, and you've fallen out of the habit of moving closer together to initiate anything, so with the sex goes the affection, and without the affection there is no means by which you are close enough to feel the urge to have sex any more. And soon not having sex becomes as much of a habit as having sex did in the beginning.

And by then it's too late really, because it's not the same as when you were first together and getting to know each other, and discovering each other again sexually. You already know each other's faults and because sex hasn't happened for so long you no longer have that urge.

So what needs to happen is to start from scratch. Time away without the kids. Time to talk and have conversations about anything apart from the kids and the drudgery of life. To find who you both were before you got to this stage, and to acknowledge who you've become.

It's inevitable that the physical side of most relationships changes over the course of those relationships, but that doesn't mean that all is lost, it just means that things have changed and you both need to change with them so you can grow into the new life you have created together.

yes in my case half/lost trust is a big part of the issue.

I think what you describe Wnnabe is very familiar to (most?) relationships- and as you say you can't start from the beginning again. But at least in situations where the cycle needs reversing both parties are hurting in some sense. So while reversing the cycle might not be easy- both want things to change or know that things should be better. I guess I'm thinking about where one partner knows this and the other has found a new equilibrium of half in half out? So if things are heading toward estrangement- or an affair - or a final horrible argument- I get that. But when one wants change and the other is (sort of) happy or content - it's a genuine puzzle? Are they just unaware - dead to their own discontent, until they suddenly have feelings awakened when some one new enters the scene and they realise what 'love' (more usually lust, a crush, teenage brain return) is again?

User...498 - I'm now thinking about 'half trust' - and even 'half love' or 'half connected' and 'half attracted' - enough to make you content - not want to leave - or look elsewhere - but not enough to be fully happy? Is this a thing? Genuinely interested!

In my case I think I went from feeling like an equal partner (educated, interesting job even if not massively well-paid) to feeling like a housekeeper/drudge after the children were born.

My dh had a much better paid job so it made sense that he continued to work while I stayed at home. Then he was tired/stressed/busy/too important and didn't do much with the dcs, and I think that the resentment that I felt gradually started to eat away at our relationship.

Why didn't I do something about it? Move out, insist on having a job, make him engage more with us, even have a proper, in-depth conversation? I honestly wish I had, but I think it takes a certain level of confidence and energy to really face up to things and deal with them, which I just didn't have at the time.

I'll just add, that the resentment that I felt then hung around for a LONG time. Going on holiday and receiving an occasional present didn't really make much difference. What would have made a difference would have been him really trying to engage with the children, really thinking about how I felt. Small things, making an effort, putting us first ... just didn't happen. I think I probably sank into a mild depression and making an effort to show him more affection definitely wouldn't have happened, in fact it would have been RIGHT at the bottom of my to do list!

Maybe your dw feels the same?

Naicehamchop - I think OP might get some pointers there. - and it's enlightening too - thank you!

If you want to get more from your relationship, think about what you need to give.

She sounds numb to you and perhaps that is due to you ignoring or not seeing her needs for a long time.

Raising children with inadequate contribution from your partner must turn you very cold to them. So maybe that is why she is icy with you.

Coldness is usually an expression of deep hurt.

Just a thought.

dadaist I think you've got something with the half trust concept. Enough to be concerned, but having to trust the word of your significant other because it's hard to believe they could behave badly towards you...maybe not content, but going on 'innocent until proven guilty'. I do think you 'settle' in a relationship (especially women) because if you've given up career and prospects to raise children (with someone you initially had a fun life with) you can't get that earning potential back again and are effectively stuck in a largely monotonous life in order to avoid the alternative problems. You get used to it. Sunk costs idea again...
I don't think a non-demonstrative relationship is ever an excuse to be heading towards an affair though. That is really deliberately crappy behaviour.
naiceham I completely identify with your description here. It must be a very common thing. I'm thinking this is what a lot of ppl wake up to in that 20yr married / midlife crisis stage of life...OP take note

Very interesting and relevant posts from the last batch of peeps.

Taken on board fully. Some parts are more relevant than others but the gist of it seems bang on to me.

Turned into a very productive thread I reckon after the the oddness at the beginning. Shame there wasn't one like it to read before I posted

Thanks again.

OP could it be a possibility she just isn't attracted to you anymore?
If you are a good husband/father/provider, then chances are, her just not fancying you, is not a good enough reason for her to give it all up.

Tiredoldcliche - I'm glad you're still here. We can't know the cause of your DWs disconnection from you. Only she does, and you deserve to know. But what is at the heart of this is whether she is willing or wanting to make things better, or is some halfway house and doesn't want to move either toward you or away from you, or has fallen out of love and not yet prepared to confront this head on and separate.
I should add that 'heading for an affair' is observation of what can happen - I of course think it's very wrong - but it is movement toward exit from a relationship - rather than the cold, half-relationship inertia, which is harder to know what you should do about.
But refusing to discuss things isn't right. In fact, you could view that - if it's some level of 'silent resentment' or conscious distancing - as a correlation with abusive behaviour - secretly punishing you, while being perfectly fine, if you see what I mean? So your feelings and needs do deserve to be recognised, not buried because on the surface there is no abusive behaviour.
There are quite a few potential scenarios- and I think Fitzdonavon's perspective on 'settling' and naicehamchops refection on depression/resentment and inertia are very insightful (and thank you both!) But they are also sort of horrible and scary to ponder aren't they?. And talking honestly together is possibly the only chance you really have, because what you 'really' need to do or change is not obvious. Very good luck OP!

I too had a relationship where my husband was away a lot. When he wasn't there, life went quite smoothly, the children and I got into a routine and I made a lot of friends on the Internet, because that was the only adult conversation available in the evenings. When he was away, we were barely in contact.

When my husband was home, he tended to be critical about things, but never really helped. The children were my job, as was the house. I almost never had a break, because at weekends, he would lie in, because that was 'his time off'. He thought that as he worked hard, he deserved a break. But he completely ignored the fact that I never, ever had one, because my jobs (the children and house) were there to be dealt with, all day every day.

My experience was that when he came home, there was extra work. He made mess / dirty clothes / ate food. I couldn't talk to my wonderful Internet friends so much, because he was there.

And then, we'd go to bed and he would want sex and that too was another chore I had to get to, and how could I fancy someone who thought so little about me.

I can't tell if any of that fits your situation OP. You haven't answered any questions about how much you do, so only you know whether your situation might be similar.

I eventually left him. That was the first time he really started listening.

We are now back together. When he's away, we speak all the time. He phones daily and we message continually, just silly little things, but it makes all the difference. He comes home with gifts for the family. Items of food from wherever he's been that mean that often at weekends, I don't have to think about what to eat.

It's obvious now, even when he's away, that I am his priority.

He stopped moaning about the house when it wasn't tidy. Recently, after further discussion, we have an allocated time when everyone tidies and cleans (our children are a bit older, but not much).

Because he is now focussed on me (and the family), I no longer feel that sex is a chore. We have fun together and make time for each other. Instead of the trips being a relief, life is better now, both when he's away and when he's here. Better still, now the children are older, I just occasionally go with him. I'm fairly sure if he could, he'd take me whenever he was away.

As I said before, you haven't really responded much about what you do when you come home, so I don't know whether any of that rings true. But it is possible to come back from an almost dead marriage. It takes effort on both sides.

Interesting post, Lost.

For what it's worth, I agree with Dadaist that she is being unfair if she doesn't - at least - agree to talk about your relationship. (This is assuming that you are not putting undue and heavy handed amounts of pressure on her - I'm sure you are not.)

"She just makes me feel like I am a part of the machine that is her life. "

Hey OP. I suspect that is because, right now, that is what you are.

I was her a few years back. I was a full-time employee, wife, mother or three, main housekeeper. cleaner, cook etc. I had no time for anything else. Keeping H happy was not my first priority and I assume that he felt the same. It was a crappy untenable situation about which we were both a bit miserable and resentful. I have no idea if you contribute more to family life than H did but even if you do it might well be that she feels jaded and long agonised conversation about your relationship is more than she can handle.

FWIW H had an affair. We stayed together and it's good now but it took 4 years to get to a good place. But what REALLY improved things was communication (we saw a MC for a while and I had my own IC) which tends to be unavoidable after an affair and (most importantly) my realisation that I needed more in my life than work and hard fucking graft! I took up running and photography and I am happier and healthier. Being a parent can become a raison d'etre and it shouldn't. There is so much more. I am a better partner AND parent now than when I thought my kids where all that defined me.

I wonder if your wife is depressed. I was.

irian glad you feel it has turned out okay for you. But FFS! You were depressed and communication was poor, so your H had an affair? Not having a go at you in any way. It astounds me how prevalent it is for (often men) to do this kind of thing when life as a family gets boring and hard work. There's no excuse for being a cheating bastard. We all get bored sometimes!