The usual

[tiredoldcliche]

Been together 20 years & married 13 years that time. 2 DC 12 & 9.

Like many others I find myself feeling a lack of connection with my wife. I work away quite a lot and find apart from the kids there seems to be no happiness or affection that I feel or I see from her. There is what I would describe as small talk. I certainly never feel any happiness or genuine affection in my direction. This makes me sad and then it just snowballs from day to day stuck in my own negative thoughts.

We are both similar in that we are not the most expressive people, nor romantic but I do and have always thought that if did not make any effort to have the odd hug and kiss there would be nothing at all to distinguish us as a couple. Sex is the same, if I didn't initiate it would rarely/never happen, nothing is reciprocated and kissing is cut short/avoided. If I try to talk about it it's shut down as she just doesn't seem to be able or want to talk about anything.

I have always suspected she won't talk because she doesn't want to tell the truth but she says that's rubbish and I overanalyse things. I don't believe that anymore but am unsure what that means for us really ?

Dunno why I am posting really !

Thanks for the insight everybody.

I will say in her defence that she is not spiteful. She is not nasty at all.

She just makes me feel like I am a part of the machine that is her life.

And not much else.

I think I will write a letter and taking advice from another poster will first ask what she wants rather than what is wrong.

Thanks to all.

How often do you spend one to one time together? Not 'date night' necessarily, just hanging out. And NOT talking about the relationship.
I've found this bizarrely mportant for my relationship, which has gone through phases where one or other of us will be as you describe your DW.

Does she work full-time too?
Was there a discussion between you about working away so much? Just wondering if she's feeling resentful of being expected to always be home so you can work away?
Did she put her career in hold so you could do that?

When you're home, at the weekend, how much time do you each get for your own things? For leisure? Are they equal?

Who runs the household/family?
It sounds as though you've grown apart, but I'm trying to gauge if there's resentment there.

There's no point in you posting here, OP. There are too many people who get off on sticking the boot into you because you're a man. You'll only make yourself feel worse.

I've no particular insight into your situation but wish you well.

She works part time but would not work at all if possible. No resentment there I don't think.

Occasionally when on our own I think if I don't drive the conversation nothing will be said. She will happily spend the night on FB which in turn results in me staring at my phone.

FB winds me up tbh. I think there is a bit of issue there aswell.

We don't do date nights but are trying to restart our social life these days. It's new but I suspect for her it's more about time with friends than time to have fun together with friends iyswim.

Is getting an orgasm the answer to it! Ha ha. What a stupid post!

Not really. The OP is all about how he only gets it when he instigates it, so if she isn't getting anything out of it, why would she instigate it? I didn't randomly bring up the subject of sex.

Notice he doesn't tell us what happens when he gets back from all this working away.

It depends what day and time I get back daffodils

Sex is an important part of a marriage. Just because I am a man doesn't mean I am not allowed to say it ain't great. As it happens I think it's the connection problem that creates the sex problem along with others.

Problems though, can be dealt with. If both parties are willing. She is not willing.

You, are determined to come to one conclusion. That is fine.

Please continue

Anyone is wrong sticking the boot into this guy, I think what is correct is to see where she might be coming from, I think a lot of marriages are like this and just depends if it bothers you, clearly it does the OP

Thanks esoteric.

Interesting what you say. Do you think that some women/men after 20 years would think this is normal ? And possibly live without even realising it ?

That is a little scary. It would kind of mean we just are not right for each other though....

Instead of asking your DW what she wants, how about asking "Are there any changes I could make that would make you happier/enjoy life more. Are there any things we could differently that would make you happier/enjoy life more. I feel we are stuck in a rut, do you feel the same?"

Have you suggested relationship counselling to your DW?.

It reads as if she has checked out of your relationship. Anyone who would rather spend her evenings on Fb than engage with their life partner is giving you a message "not invested". Or some unspoken resentment or issue that is being avoided. If there was a closeness , a connection then a browse on the web or Fb would be OK but not for whole evenings and not to the exclusion of communication with you

Has this been a gradual thing? Presumably you were strong as a couple early on? When did you detect a chance approximately in your 20 year timeline?

I agree with random.
Sadly i believe a lot of long marriages where children are involved are like this.
I'm also going to agree with daffodils. If either party isn't reaching orgasm then they are not going to want sex. Sex is important to the op. He mentions it.
It sounds to me like your marriage is stuck in a rut, very common i think.

Tired
Omg I'm delighted you've talked here. Men hardly ever do. And when they do even a tiny bit, a pack of monstrous harpies fall on them, shrieking their venom

I hope the hilarious 'when did you last give her [give?!] an orgasm' made you laugh - it should have done.

I am very sorry as it sounds like you're just getting nothing in terms of either emotional or physical feedback from your wife. For whatever reason, she has just closed off. And she's ok with that, doesn't think she needs more, and wants it all to just roll blindly on like this until you are 95. Depressing. Really.

I'm so sorry she won't talk. Maybe you need to jolt her out of this with something that takes her away from the ordinary context of your routine lives. I don't usually suggest this kind of thing, but what about a holiday? Or even just a few days of the two of you somewhere nice?

I think you need to take her somehow out of her usual sphere, where she might just lift her eyes and see you again. You love her and find her as desirable as ever - presumably she once too felt that about you. She needs to remember that. And when she does, you need to tell her how important it is.

I hope you can do something about it. Such love, and your family together - it is worth trying anything.

It must feel very sad at the moment. Like a constant chronic grief.

Take her to an island somewhere and let her lie in the sun and swim in the sea until she wakes up again. To you.

I have to say I think I have been guilty of regarding sex as just one more job on a list of things to do in the past. I think this is quite common in relationships where there are very young children, but I would expect things to have improved by the time they have got to the age of yours.

Have you tried going away together for the night every now and again? Maybe leave the children with grandparents occasionally. I think that a change of scene can often help.

Other than that, I think she is being pretty unfair to you if she won't at least talk about things, especially when she can see that you are unhappy.

'There are times I behave like a child'

In what way? Could this be why she seems to have less affection for you? An adult man acting like a child would kill my libido stone dead.

Yes, I did laugh at that comment and have found myself wondering where it is coming from. Perhaps for some, seeing a man mention sex on the relationship board was a bit like going shopping when your hungry

In all honesty that side of the discussion is no more relevant than the rest. All of it is important to me.

If I had not mentioned sex I would of been asked anyway. That's also funny.

We will have a holiday and I will continue to try and some suggestions I will use. It's been funny and useful.

I was in the same situation as you OP with XH and raised the same points. Over and over again. He didn't see it and why anything needed changing. I left him.

I'm sad I lost him and our family unit but he had the chance. I'm with a new DP and it couldn't be more different. We talk, we're affectionate, we're intimate. We discuss things and both work hard to resolve issues.

You don't have to put up with it you know.

Yes, I did laugh at that comment and have found myself wondering where it is coming from.

I think that is very telling, that you don't even consider it a serious point. Still it is your life.

Oooooh very telling, yes.

Let's ignore the the rest and stick to the telling bits.

I think that is very telling, that you don't even consider it a serious point. Still it is your life.

Well, I though it was funny. As if how often your partner 'gives' you an orgasm will actually determine how much you open up to him (ahem).

I don't rely on my partner for all my sexual needs, because he might be tired, etc. And I sort of feel my body is my responsibility.

And if the OP's wife avoids kissing, then I doubt giving her an orgasm is going to make that much difference.

I think I don't like the 'give' business because it sounds like she's desperately waiting for this gift. ...

The tone of that first response to the OP was that there must be a load of things he isn't bothering or thinking to do - that he's being thoughtless and not caring enough, and she's withdrawn because of that.

There's nothing in what he's said that sounds as if he's been doing that, to me.

He tries and is rejected. Maybe if he tried invasive orgasm donation he might also be rejected. ...

The answer to rejection isn't necessarily grabbing.

If you feel like just another cog in the family machine to your wife (to paraphrase your comment), have you done anything to add a spark of interest back to the relationship between you both? As many pp have said, life with young children can become stuck in a rut, especially when you work away and I'm guessing this job therefore impacts greatly on what your wife can do workwise and socially. Which can be a cause of low level resentment /apathy.
Do you both have the chance to do things you enjoy, separately and together (child free)? Does she have as much free time as you? Including evenings? Honestly? It's the little things that go unnoticed but add to the mind set. Have you told her that you feel this bad, and why? She may just be plodding on to get through the boring bits of life with young children and not realise you are practically ready to walk over a lack of demonstrated interest...

She wouldn't work at all if possible?
That's sounds a little unusual. Is she lazy? Depressed? Or hates her job currently?

Maybe she hates her job as it is the only one she could get that fits in with OPs job...if you've not had a DP who works away regularly (and not always same days/weeks) you may not consider it difficult, but it can be. It impacts on your ability to work and socialise, which DP might not appreciate. Which can lead to apathy and feeling unappreciated /taken for granted, when DP doesn't notice because they are just going to work and back as usual. Not saying that is the case here, but we don't know the full story.