The usual

[tiredoldcliche]

Been together 20 years & married 13 years that time. 2 DC 12 & 9.

Like many others I find myself feeling a lack of connection with my wife. I work away quite a lot and find apart from the kids there seems to be no happiness or affection that I feel or I see from her. There is what I would describe as small talk. I certainly never feel any happiness or genuine affection in my direction. This makes me sad and then it just snowballs from day to day stuck in my own negative thoughts.

We are both similar in that we are not the most expressive people, nor romantic but I do and have always thought that if did not make any effort to have the odd hug and kiss there would be nothing at all to distinguish us as a couple. Sex is the same, if I didn't initiate it would rarely/never happen, nothing is reciprocated and kissing is cut short/avoided. If I try to talk about it it's shut down as she just doesn't seem to be able or want to talk about anything.

I have always suspected she won't talk because she doesn't want to tell the truth but she says that's rubbish and I overanalyse things. I don't believe that anymore but am unsure what that means for us really ?

Dunno why I am posting really !

Maybe she's just totally fed up. Life can become one repetitive routine particularly if money is tight, child care is non existent, opportunities for getting out and about are limited or indeed, if there are any health issues in the relationship.
After twenty years and a pre-disposition to avoidance/shutting down, your wife is unlikely to change unless something radically shifts in the way you do things.
Do you buy her flowers? A bottle of wine? Tell her she looks lovely without expecting anything in return? Being a grown up means seeing the other person's point of view and appreciating their individuality. No one is an extension of anyone else. We all need a certain autonomy in life and just maybe, she finds her autonomy through shutting down emotionally with you because she knows what your reaction would be if she did disclose how she feels.
Check out why she loves facebook so much. Could it be vicarious living? Maybe, she's looking at other peoples lives and comparing them unfavourably to her own. Its very common for dissatisfied people to use that social platform as an emotional crutch.
Hope you find some answers OP.

You're sure she's not having an affair?

I very much doubt she is having an affair. She is very loyal, as am I.

She would rather not work purely to from a childcare perspective and as some have mentioned life is just to busy for us both.

This has helped me in a way already as I can see some of my thoughts or fears don't make sense when someone else is saying it.

Will see what happens.

Thanks again to all who took the time to post.

OP, firstly I am sorry there are arseholes on here being nasty to you.

You both have to work at a relationship, it's not just down to you; I'd suggest date nights, just the two of you, you can then talk without distraction and go really deep to find out if she is still interested in having an intimate relationship with you, if the answer is yes then that can be worked on but if she says no, you may have to face facts that you may need to separate; I'd not stay with someone that was not willing to have a loving relationship with me, kids or no kids.

I was probably a bit like your wife. I was no longer in love with my husband ( sorry) but didn't have the guts to tell him or do anything about it. Things dragged on and on for years.

I regret being so cowardly now.

There was a thread recently where a woman was complaining that her husband never wanted to have sex with her. The replies were completely different, I believe someone even called the husband a bastard, and many posters made him out to be selfish.

There is such a double standard it is crazy!

My husband would probably describe me as you've described your wife. I have 3 little ones and a husband that was not very engaged with the practical side of raising them due to his career and commute. If I asked for help his stock answer was "But I work". For the first few years I felt angry, now I would describe myself as in survival and self protection mode. That makes enjoying sex very difficult too. My husband has softened but it's not consistent. I would say actions speak louder than words. Kindness and appreciation needs to be shown in the little ways - when you're there unload the dishwasher, take the kids out, make a cup of tea, get the vacuum out. All without expectation of anything in return - and keep it up. The mistake my husband makes is that any of these things might happen for 2 days and and then he gives up and/or when he's doing it he's very vocal about what he's doing and wants praise. For me these small tasks completed by one partner to make the others life easier speak volumes in a marriage and are worth much more than expensive flowers and gestures. Women really store things up and over the years - however any consistent change in my husbands approach would melt all that resentment away. If only he could keep it up as failed or half hearted gestures breed yet more resentment.

Not sure if it's the relationship that's the problem or if she's depressed.

When I had depression I went on for ages denying anything was wrong and not wanting to talk about emotions. Maybe this could be it.

Is she sleeping a lot? Or maybe not sleeping well? Does she want to do things, but then changes her mind last minute? Can she get excited about things or not?

If she isn't depressed generally then I would say she is being unfair to you in checking out of the relationship but keeping you hanging with on.

I don't know maybe arrange some kind of activity for the 2 of you to do together without it turning in to a deep and meaningful about your relationship.

It sounds to me like you just want to feel loved and needed. That is a very human thing and affects both women and men. I believe that both partners go through phases at different times of the relationship when they feel a bit overlooked or under appreciated. Life gets in the way and your relationship or partner can sometimes feel like another item on your to-do list. With the situation as you describe it, your wife must be feeling unhappy too. Or possibly she's too busy to really think about her own feelings. It sounds to me like as a first step you need some time alone or a holiday to get away from the current situation and try to talk to her then (when she's not thinking about putting on the next load of washing or the kids' homework). It will be good for both of you if you can get your relationship back to a more loving place. Things can change but it does need you both to wake up and realise that there's a problem to address and then it will take work to rebuild that love and affection that was once there. I do believe that can be done - you must have had a happy and loving relationship once upon a time. Maybe a nice weekend away at a country hotel without the kids if that's practically possible?

There was a thread recently where a woman was complaining that her husband never wanted to have sex with her. The replies were completely different, I believe someone even called the husband a bastard, and many posters made him out to be selfish.
There is such a double standard it is crazy!

Yeah, so the real answer to OP should have been:

OMG that is so awful - I can't believe she thinks she can actually expect you to work, earn for everyone, and never have anything emotional or physical back from her apart from a wall! Whatever she is doing all day, she still needs to pull her weight in your partnership! When's the last time she spontaneously gave you a blowjob, or offered you her ass? She's such a monster - I don't know how you can go on. LTB.

Maybe you should see a solicitor? Wouldn't hurt to be prepared.

... ha

Yes, you're right, Nancy!

Hilarious.

Suppose depression is a possibility. We are not the sorts to think that might be possible.

There is such a double standard it is crazy!

Not really Nancy. You could, instead of having a go at other people's comments, actually give your own. But it is much easier to have a pop innit?

She would rather not work purely to from a childcare perspective and as some have mentioned life is just to busy for us both.

Why does she work, OP? You say you've been encouraging her to get back to work but she doesn't want to. Afaik trips to Everest (I think that's right, without looking back) aren't cheap, so you can't be hard up for the money. Does she feel that you get to do exciting things and she doesn't? As pp said, and I think probably true for many parents who have main caring responsibilities - her mind is probably always thinking of what needs doing next, be it kids hw or what's for dinner. I know my OH has a quieter mind....doesn't have to worry about all those things, maybe this is partly to blame for you feeling like part of the family machine?
I also think you're partly right in thinking many couples may suffer this at a particular part of childrearing life. Doesn't mean you're not right for each other. Just means life is a boring plod at the time. More so for the part time worker/ main carer, I imagine. Like I asked before, have you explained all your feelings to her?

tiredoldcliche - that is tough; but please do stick with it. It is a phase of life that most of us have weathered. I have been married for 46 years, so I have seen a few phases!

If loyalty and responsible parenting matter to you then hang on in there.

Maybe you can try to improve things with actions rather than words, as she finds that hard.

Cook a meal, bring home a takeaway, do something with the children that is helpful to her etc. etc. - you will know what is right in your circumstances.

Try and look what at you have achieved together and accept that life moves on, things change, and that there are good things to be found in the new and it is no good always looking back.

I wish you every good luck with this situation - life chucks challeneges at us and we just have to step up to the plate.

Daffodils I'm not even going to engage with you after reading your strange response to the OP. You are suggesting that she will have sex with him in exchange for shopping and goodies.

Personally OP I think you need to talk to her about this and see if there is any underlying depression or a problem that you haven't noticed. Tell her how it is making you feel. If possible try to get a night to yourselves and try to have a laugh together. You can't force intimacy but once you're both chilled out, not stressed from work or childcare, I feel the intimacy could come back.

If she isn't willing to have this talk or doesn't want to spend any alone time with you then I think it's time to end things as she needs to make an effort too. Best of luck.

If a guy cooked a meal for me it wouldn't make me want to have sex with him.

It wouldn't put me off, but it wouldn't persuade me if I didn't want to in the first place. Ditto gifts, etc.

This is to do with a rut she's got into. You get her out with something other than a takeaway and a bunch of flowers.

Yes, but they are small actions demonstrating thought, consideration and appreciation. Which is what OP feels is lacking, so would be good coming from both sides. To do with the 5 love languages etc.

Really sorry OP, just realised I posted relating to a different thread further up . Just ignore me!

Cooking a meal etc. reinforces their shared existence; helping with the children does the same thing. This is what is needed: a sense of teamwork and shared aims; finding ways to solidify their relationship.

Showing concern for the future of the relationship by acts of kindness has to be positive.

im not even going to engage with you after reading your strange response to the OP. You are suggesting that she will have sex with him in exchange for shopping and goodies.

Actually the opposite. I suggested coming in and dropping a pile of dirty clothes would be a turn off. However bit of a cop out, isn't it? Moaning without contributing. Suggest you make your own contribution before you start whingeing about other peoples'.

I understand how she feels. Not saying she is right I just get it.
Having been in her shoes over the years God life can feel like endless drudgery with no end in sight sometimes, it's the same thing every day. You don't hate it you just become quite indifferent to everything and just want to get through it.
I will say that I have probably spent most of my adult life in depression and this is me usually. I have had really bad obvious depression, which is obvious to all but this kind of depression is hard to spot and acknowledge, for me it's just like everything is in tones of brown and beige. Sometimes things are a little brighter but usually it's just brown and beige.
I think trying ways to make her life more enjoyable can help, things to look forward to, new adventures and bringing colour into life in small ways. She probably doesn't know how to say what is wrong. And maybe doesn't know how now your life is turning beige too

FWIW - I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask whether DW has an orgasm during sex - as an indicator of whether it's enjoyable for her - and if not it may explain a lack of initiating on her part. With hindsight perhaps it could have been phrased better - but a lot of flaming here - and it's far less common for a man to not orgasm so not directly comparable.
But what OP is asking is whether his DW has checked out - because the lack of affection, connection, fun, mutual admiration sounds pretty miserable. But what is worse is feeling that a partner isn't bothered about it? So is it possible to reconnect without talking (do some housework and give her an orgasm might be a start I guess) or is her refusal to discuss these things symptomatic that she. O longer loves him? Answers seem to be OP that it could be she is in a rut or it could be she no longer loves you - and you need to confront this really. So don't be too easily discouraged by being fobbed off - and whether you write or try talking, I think you deserve to know how she feels. But realise that your behaviour may well be contributing to how she feels and this is a two way process where you both might need to change things.
If she does want to improve your marriage you can explore how - maybe suggest counselling. If she really isn't interested then she could be having an affair, fallen out of love, depressed, we can't say - but it wouldn't be a good sign and you may need to think about separating (although you might be the first DH on MN to leave without another woman in the picture!)
Why not let us know how you get on? as this is one of the most common relationship issues on MN as I see it in one form or another.

A few weeks ago my DH told me that he thought we were over after 20 years together and many of his reasons sound similar to yours. He'd been having these thoughts for ages without speaking to me and he'd definitely got the wrong end of the stick on some of the issues and his negativity had spiralled. You have to find a way to start a dialogue and listen to each other. My DH has many things wrong and decided the only solution was divorce. Turns out that I also had jumped to some wrong conclusions too but we hadn't talked properly in years. I didn't see how unhappy he was because I'd got distracted by everything else in life. I don't know if we'll make it now or if it's gone too far, so please do something for your marriage before it is too late. I used to find some things very difficult to talk about but I'm finding now that we're talking so much that I can say everything out loud. I think this means be ready to be patient and keep trying, it will likely take more than one conversation.

Thanks to all again for posting. I can see that this is not uncommon and works both ways.

We spoke last night and it went as I thought it would to begin with. There was progress though and as the last poster said I think this will take more than one conversation.

We disagreed on a lot but have agreed that we are caught in a cycle of me withdrawing because She is unwilling to acknowledge the problem and just ignores it. She acknowledges the lack of affection also and says she will try but it is not natural for her. I am not sure about the last bit but I believe she still loves me.

I realise I play more of a part in the issue than I thought I did.

It's a start.

Feel a bit better aswell.

If I can just say I too could be perceived like this, in my case for the last 10 years since I discovered an emotional affair, I brought it up once and it was then swept under the carpet but to protect myself I think I was never quite so affectionate/engaged as I had been. Some people just 'arent' they often focus more on the practical and it may be your wife is like this, it doesn't mean she doesn't care, if however you feel you can't cope without the romance/obvious affection then it may well be best to accept or move on in as kind a way as possible , as I found that those feeling sleighted can become resentful