Utterly predictable ending. But I just couldn't admit it.

[hareinthemoon]

So - let's just start with the fact that despite having been on mn for ages, and read all the posts that sound very much like this one I'm about to write, I just somehow thought that I would be different. And I'm in the same shitty place as all those other women who thought their dh would never, in a million years, act like the other douchebags...

And even worse, I am 20 months into a separation and am only just now beginning to accept the situation. I am just in such pain and part of it is because I have been hoping all along that stbxh was just having a mid life crisis and would come to his senses before the plug was actually pulled. But I was wrong in a thousand ways.

Stbxh has been noticeably unhappy for about the past three years, since I turned 50. I knew this but he had been miserable for at least the 8 years before that - depressed at the failure of a business; I took on a counselling sort of role and we limped along for a bit. I knew he wasn't happy but assumed it was with his life, which was not going the way he wanted it to. I thought it was a rough patch we were going through - busy with the children and the demands of jobs etc. I was hoping that with DD off to uni and DS starting college we would have a bit more time together to concentrate more on the relationship and could come closer together again.

Because when we first met I just fell so deeply in love, it felt so magical, and I have been trying all this time to get it back to that. I'm not mourning the relationship as it was in the past few years, but it's so hard to let go of the memory of how it was when it started. I couldn't even begin to count up the number of self-help books and websites and mantras I've taken on and I know that 'the man I'm divorcing is not the man I married' - that's because the man I married would not have had an utterly predictable affair with a woman ten years younger than me and then lied all about it, the whole time, avoiding having sex with me because of his ED but taking Viagra to be with her, would not have cried about the therapy he was having that he said was all about the silly mistakes that he made that should never have broken our marriage up (but were all about how he wanted to be with her - ironically she broke it off with him because she caught him in a lie, and he has been obsessed with getting her back while telling me he wanted to change). He would not have been telling me that he thought he would regret breaking the marriage up somewhere down the line, telling me about his counselling, and all the while obsessing about one other woman and sexting yet another one...

I feel like a fool but I so wanted to believe him and to believe in him. On the weekend I found out as much of the truth, finally, as I needed to know to accept that this has been a lie for years and that any intimations of regret were just to keep me from causing a fuss. But I am so mourning the loss of my family and of that man who I now know was a fantasy - and how do you mourn a fantasy without feeling like an idiot?

Tonight we had the first discussion that was based on any kind of truth. As soon as I found out about the affair he drove the 80 miles to where she lives (where we used to live, when it started, I suppose) and told me he'd only be back if she didn't accept him back. I was here looking after our son (he is normally the resident parent) and there was no comeback to that. He stayed out; I imagine he told her he'd finally told me about them (though in fact I found out and confronted him, I don't know how long it would have taken otherwise). Since then he has been to the bank to try to close the joint account, appointed a solicitor, and talked to his work about taking early retirement so he can move to be with her.

We've been married for almost 20 years. Our son has 18 months of college left; I would have stayed but got the chance of a funded study position elsewhere, stbxh was working locally, and so we decided he would be the one in the house looking after our son and I would move. Now stbxh is saying his mental state is precarious and he is not sure how he will cope staying in the area for 18 months. If I have to move back to look after our son during his A-levels I will have to do it but it will impact very negatively on my studies, perhaps funding, etc.

If I'd known about the affair from the beginning I would have thought twice about taking the funded position. So many things could have been more sensibly worked through. But the lies have not only caused me to wonder if there was hope for our relationship; they have meant I have missed time waiting for him to 'come to his senses' when I could have been moving on. I could have been preparing the DCs better instead of trying to keep everybody happy by playing happy families. I could have come to terms with much sooner with who it was I actually married instead of the fantasy man I thought I had. The lies have turned me into a crazy person, trying to fit information that only half fit into stories that I tried to believe in.

I know I'm an idiot but that's what lies do to you. I'm just looking for some hand holding I guess, and people to tell me it gets better and people can learn to trust again.

Oh i have only seen him three times!!
I read your entire thread. Before i had just climbed aboard for dating chat. I dont blame you for being pissed off that his secrecy snd lies prevented you from making the best choices for your new future. Grrr.

I hope he at least looks after your 18 yo properly. As for his mental health and not coping, well, if he keeps his life simple and copes with son first, job second, extra affairs third he will be less likely to derail. How frustrating!

It is frustrating. Because I'm (finally) at a stage where I could make a plan for what I do next and how I carry on, but that plan is entirely dependent on him doing what we agreed was the best course of action when we separated. Anything he changes now has repercussions for me that mean that my future just isn't as secure as I could be concentrating on making it. It's hard enough trying to forge ahead at 53!!

I have sorted out a new life and now it's all filled with, but what if...

Gah.

Is your study not deferrable? Have you explained the situation to them? They may be able to find a way to defer it for a year or two. Or make it somehow long distance? Could you travel up there once a week for a couple of days and then complete your studies back with your son - emailing your assignments etc?

As for the house...I'd be tempted just to sell. You'll be hanging on for him to wangle the money out of his poor ow, who may realise actually she doesn't want to give this man any of her monies because he's already started giving her shit too. Visit CAB (citizen's advice bureau) and see what would happen financially if you sold vs if he bought you out. Having that bit of capital may affect you if you were to apply for housing benefit etc so it's best to know beforehand what the options are.

Sad to say when people do this to others, they are usually selfish fuckers who'll gladly spin whatever tale they need to to get what they want and leave their family/children in the shit. He's already trying to get his ow to pay out for the house so it shows he's willing to fuck her over aswell. They're relationship is built on lack of trust too so it's not a happy one (I know a few ow who all say years down the line they were controlled by their man). All very sad.

It is deferrable but I'd have no funding and no way of making money if I did that. At the moment my sole income is the funding. If I did it long distance it might be possible but it costs me over £100 a time to go there even with a student railcard (and that doesn't include staying overnight - it's a 7 hour journey). And I would have to go a few times.

I have to say it is supposition what he wants to do wrt the house - I think he has just assumed that I will come and look after our son and everything will just be hunky dory from there (no actual details as to how this will be achieved). I agree people in his situation will do anything and if the worst comes to the worst I can see myself stuck in a situation I can't afford or finance while he swans off effectively saying he can't pay anything. It's very worrying.

Your story really resonates with me.

When we first got together, we had the most amazing relationship. We had known each other previously through some challenging times and we started from a position of knowledge and honesty. We made an amazing team and I felt safe and connected in a way I'd never had before. Thanks to a dreadful family history, my sense of self was completely bound up in the family 'we' created. Of course, there were niggles, but they were all resolvable, though life became increasingly challenging once children arrived. So far so normal.

He started a new course and got on really well with some of the participants, including one woman who he described as the sister he'd never had. Can you tell, yet, where this is going? After he snogged her one night he came back and told me. I told him he needed to tell me everything she knew before I heard it from her or someone else and he told that he'd had a one-night stand on a business trip 8 years previously.

We did Relate for 18 months, all the time he was insisting that he wanted the relationship to work. Eventually the counsellor worked out what was going on and told me the situation was toxic. Even after that, I still thought I could somehow fix things. My mental health suffered and I was close to falling apart. I finally had the courage to look at his actions rather than listen to his words and it was clear he blamed me for everything that was wrong in our relationship, and had been since that business trip, and his life and that, really, he didn't want to be with me.

The sense of loss when I realised how much of our relationship was based on lies was huge. The rage and fury at what he had done to me and what I had ignored and therefore let him do to me was overwhelming.

I was brought up to listen to people's words and ignore their actions and I tend to look for the kindest explanation for the worst behaviour. It is hard to break the patterns of a lifetime but I am learning to look clearly at behaviour and see it for what it is, not what I would like it to be.

I'll be honest, it's taken a long time and lots and lots of work with an amazing therapist, but I am reclaiming myself piece by piece.

As my therapist repeatedly reminds me, I am allowed all my feelings, to hate being a single parent, hate the responsibility for everything weighing on my shoulders, feel rage that I will never have the experience of having children with a committed partner. Gently, she has helped me acknowledge that my ex in not interested in co-parenting and the degree to which he is failing our children while reassuring me that I am enough, that my children will cope because they have me. My amazing children have struggled with his actions which show that they do not feature high on his priority list while his words claim otherwise and the pattern risks repeating itself.

I didn't feel able to date until my divorce came through, 2.5 years after we separated, but I have been lucky enough to meet my BF through OLD. I really only wanted a few dates but life has a habit of doing its own thing! It's a limited relationship as I'm not ready to consider living with someone else but it works well for us and he is a kind, considerate and thoughtful man. He, too, has been badly treated in the past by people who were essentially self absorbed and selfish though he too, tends to be kinder to them than they deserve. I am cautious and cynical at times, as is he, but we are open enough that we can talk about it when it becomes a problem for either of us. The sex is amazing!

I would urge you to play with the idea of being selfish, to look after yourself first and worry about everyone else second, even if it’s only in your head. Work out what you would like to happen and discount nothing, especially solutions that feel 'wrong' or selfish. In the early days, I discounted solutions as selfish that would have made my life so much easier in the longer term. Yes, there would have been challenges for my children but they would have been okay, not least because my life would have been so much easier – short term pain for long term gain. Others have suggested your son could board but he could also move to where you are studying. The colleges might not be as good overall, but that’s not to say they wouldn’t be good enough for your son, depending on what he’s studying. He might even prefer a fresh start so don't try to second guess his wishes. I know one child who has just moved colleges from the best in the area to an, on paper, poorer option and is so much happier, so don’t dismiss that without looking into it in some detail. As others have suggested, talk to your children, friends etc as they might have solutions you haven't considered.

I hear that money is a concern and I know that feeling well but I look back and realise that money provided a focus for my anxiety about the future. Money is still challenging but tax credits, child maintenance and careful budgeting mean that we’re managing even though I have no idea how!

Sorry this is so long! Short version - treat yourself as kindly as you can!

What does you DS want to do in all this? I think his needs are paramount. Does he want to stay where the house is (and his dad) or would he ideally like to be with you?

I know he may be at a good college - but you know the actual teaching might be as good elsewhere, the support might be better, suit your son more. If you DS is not on the Oxbridge track then the college he attend might not be critical. If he loves his friends and life there then that is different.

I think you should call a family meeting (sans husband) lay out the situation and see what your DC want. They may not want you to struggle to keep the house and may have good insights to offer. They will thank you for involving them and taking their opinions on board.

I would see a solicitor and a benefits rights organisation- get some proper advice about your situation and the house. If you start divorce proceedings and he refuses to sell you may be able to force a sale of the house. You may be entitled to extra CTC if your son lives with you and HB will sometimes help with the rent (even if you co own a property) on a temporary basis until you can arrange a sale. Unis often have their own bursaries and grants available if you have dependents to support.

You should contact the Welfare office at your son's college - they will be able to give you advice about finances if he needs to live alone/in lodgings. He could be declared an independent adult and colleges usually have bursaries to supplement living costs for students who do not live with their parents and can help with contacting social services who can arrange help with rental costs etc.

You need to get all your information. Your DH is totally unreliable - do not concern yourself with him in your planning. Your poor son having to live with him. I am in my 50's and was a SAHM for many years - I know how hard forging a new career is but your DC's needs in the moment should take priority.

secret thank you so much. That means a lot to know that you have been through what sounds like exactly the same scenario and come out the other side.

In my case 'our' created family has been central to both of our sense(s) of self, me partly because of being foreign and just really wanting a closer bond than I had with my own birth family. Xh has been going to therapy in part because his mother left him and he was pushed from pillar to post for a large part of his teenage years. He feels it has really affected him and his life choices. I just cannot even begin to comprehend that he can consider doing the same thing to our boy.

I was brought up to listen to people's words and ignore their actions and I tend to look for the kindest explanation for the worst behaviour. It is hard to break the patterns of a lifetime but I am learning to look clearly at behaviour and see it for what it is, not what I would like it to be. - you have put this better than I could - this is my challenge and I am mad at myself because if I had read his actions instead of his words I would have - well who knows. I didn't do whatever I would have done so it's a moot point.

I'm trying to get my head around the potential scenarios. My biggest worry is that we negotiate a workable outcome (specifically, for example, one concerning maintenance) and he just flakes off and leaves me in the shit (even more than I am).

Your post has meant a lot, thank you.

Thank you loin, I can see that my next step is to get all the information. I am woefully under-informed about divorce in general and my options in particular. I had my head in the sand and now I am paying for it.

I think, given a choice, DS would stay where he is. It's the friends, and he is settled at school. He'd find it hard to relocate, I think.

I hesitate to tell the children as I know it will blow their security out of the water. But I can see it will have to be done.

I don't have any more advice for you, just wanted to say you sound bloody great

AnyFucker I saw there was a post from you and prepared myself for some VERY straight talking - as I said I've been on MN for years - and found flowers and validation. It does mean a lot (especially since I know you are never anything but honest!). Thank you.

I would recommend you nail the details as soon as possible. I waited as I wanted to keep things 'nice' but that meant huge uncertainty and he then tried to renegotiate the deal. My solicitor told me to file early on when he didn't engage and she was right! Your stbexh is seeing someone else so that in itself is unreasonable behaviour and I am sure you can think of several more which are equally clear cut. If you can agree between you now and get the consent order sorted, you'll know what your position is. Do get legal advice first though so you know your parameters around what is reasonable.

Try not to second guess yourself or give yourself too hard a time about previous actions. You absolutely did the best you could at the time for all the right reasons. If you'd seen it differently at the time, you'd have made different choices, for sure, but the fact is you saw it the way you saw it. It's not your fault, you tried your hardest but it does take two and you're only 50% responsible for your relationship with your stbexh.

I am waiting for him to file - it will be two years of separation in May - because I don't want to pay the money - is this valid? Will I just end up paying half anyway?

"I was brought up to listen to people's words and ignore their actions and I tend to look for the kindest explanation for the worst behaviour. It is hard to break the patterns of a lifetime but I am learning to look clearly at behaviour and see it for what it is, not what I would like it to be."

So many of us did this. I did that. I was a terrible people-pleaser, had no boundaries either. Recently on mumsnet I advised a poster to look at a particular man's actions and ignore his words and I was rounded on by a few male posters. But I'm so glad I learnt that. Wish I'd done that at 30(when I met my x)

I see people on here who are so wise, at 25 or younger and I was still a people-pleasing wishy washy boundary less target for jackasses at 30.

Your story resonates with me too, OP and although I can't give you hope for the other side (I'm in the tunnel at the moment too) I can see that you really don't need to feel foolish.

You gave your marriage everything and now you feel that you have been thoroughly betrayed. But your capacity to give everything, to trust, to see the good in people where others might have given up - these are not flaws or the signs of idiocy. These are great characteristics that will hold you in good stead in your recovery and in a future relationship with someone worthwhile.

He, in contrast, is left with himself. Someone so cowardly he slips away rather than saying goodbye to a child and whose first impulse is to blame and lie. I would suggest that those characteristic will not a happy life make, beyond the quick fix of temporarily avoiding the hard bits.

I would echo some of the advice above. For a long time you have tried to solve the insolvable. Focus a bit on yourself and your son's issues may well work themselves out. Some solutions may come out of left field; I personally have focused too much on making things ok for the children, at the expense of my own sanity and happiness (which of course is not good for the children anyway). Forcing myself to be a bit 'selfish' has improved things for the children too quite unexpectedly.

Good luck to us all and let's try not to give ourselves a hard time about what we could have done differently. The liars and the cheats and the avoiders seem oddly reluctant to focus on their part in the hurt. You did your best in difficult circumstances and you will do the same going forward, I'm sure.

Hare, I get it. I get that you trusted him, and never imagined that he would do what he has done. I get that the disappointment and the disbelief are hard for you, and I get too that, because he's acting in ways you never thought possible, you are reevaluating all you know about him and about yourself. I understand that you feel as if the landscape has changed, and it's scary.
Its 2.5 years since I was where you are. I think all anyone can do is make the best decisions with a good heart on the information currently available. No one can ask more of you than that. Your posts make clear that you are hurting, but intelligent, funny and caring, and my own experience tells me that, with those attributes, you will get through this.
I was told, at your stage, that I would be intact in the aftermath of the betrayal, the rewriting of history and the lack of empathy. I didn't believe it, and maybe you won't either, right now. But it is true that I am happier without my exh, am enjoying living without disapproval and grumpiness, am more the me I used to be. Sure there are difficult times, but there were in marriage too. You will be ok, you can enjoy the rest of your life, this is not the end. Take care of you, you are important.

The thing is my DH is good looking and trim and with a 'sexy job'. I know if I go he will probably have a damn good time because at the end of the day ladies like yourselves don't know that he decided it was ok to be an emotional cheater with a 21 year old , has a huge temper and is completely useless in the house or with money , at least not for a good while, whereas I have zero interest in middle aged balding bores , if I leave , men are off the agenda for a good while , think I will write a novel, get some voluntary work in etc to keep busy

By the way I would walk away with nothing too, shall we shack up together!!

Oh.

So, have had a conversation with DS in which I tried to bring up the various possibilities around the changes that will occur on divorce. He was calm and helpful with what he wanted, what might happen, he is going to think about his preferences.

However he didn't seem as surprised as he might have been and eventually told me that he's received a text from xh by accident that said "Sorry I can't stay but my feelings for you are still too strong and I can't just be a FWB". Then a text to DS saying, "soz, busted". This was a good couple of weeks ago. I don't even know how I feel about that.

Anyway. Things move on. Rapidly.

Thank you all for your kind words, I really don't know what I'd do without them.

Esoteric yes. We should.

It's part of my studies as well as my interest that I'm looking into, for example, co-housing, including women's co-operatives, and I am seriously interested in maybe making more opportunities like this. I'd definitley be up for it.

And your story about your H just makes me absolutely terrified that I would be involved with another one like that. Terrified to the point of never being able to trust someone with a Y chromosome again.

Oh my god definitely

" Soz, busted". How profound. What excellent parenting.

FFS.

It's really telling, isn't it? He's completely invested in being able to surround himself with lies (what he thinks he is protecting himself from I have no idea). And his first thought on knowing that his son has some information that might need talking through is not for his son but for himself.

What on earth was I married to?

hare that's great that you have spoken to DS and that he was able to confide in you about the texts.

Yes well. The conversation with DD has not gone so well. She has had a shit time at uni and has really wanted a stable base and she really loves the area where the family home is. All she sees is that her dad and I can't "be civil to each other" and be in the same room - that is what she wants, for the four of us to be in the same room together. Maybe I should be strong enough to be able to do that - but I'm not. And she is really angry with me.

Give her time 💐