Have I destroyed trust in marriage?

[mummalugs]

Hi MNers,

Please, some constructive advice much appreciated.

DH and I married 14 years ago. Everything has always been shared - shared bank account, our house, including the money my parents have gave us to help buy our first apartment. We were totally blessed in this.

I love him dearly and imagine our retirement together. We both do. We've had a few rough patches lately. During a couple of arguments he's suggested he could conceivably leave me/separate. Although we've always patched things up. It totally rocked my confidence at the time. I have never made this threat to our marriage.

Anyway, things were in a good place. But today with great difficulty and nervousness I brought up the subject of inheritance and said I would probably like to maintain some control of what my parents leave me as I was shocked and lacked trust after he'd threatened to leave me. I am fortunate enough that there may be some money for us, whereas my DH's side is less likely. Something he apparently has various issues about.

I now feel terrible. Like what was once 'us in it together ' is now like some sort of awkward Pre-nup agreement. He was pretty defensive and upset by it, saying he'd be left with a one bed flat in Timbuktu etc if we split up. He also said he feels overshadowed, emasculated by my parent's money, like he will never have done enough to earn it and what I've now said only confirms that in his mind.

Neither of us want to split up. I feel sure of this. DH loves and looks after me so well. But after he made those earlier threats that he could leave me I felt nervous it may be possible if things got ugly and maybe he would once I'd inherited. Although deep down I don't think he would.

We'd started to plan stuff long term with the idea we would come into a bit of money, but it's made me feel uncomfortable lately.

A long one sorry! It's quite involved.

Any similar stories? What agreements do you have with your DPs? Do you discuss it openly?

Leaving the money issue aside for a moment, if he brought up splitting and that was genuinely an out of the blue shock for you, the first thing you need is marriage counselling to sort out what the hell is going on in his head.

It's unfair to say that just because he talked about separating once he's started all of this and it's all his fault.

It's been said more than once actually; and personally I'd find that kind of threat very seriously; would make me wonder if deep down it's what he wants.

Then there's the crass comments re what kind of house he'd be living in once the OP mentioned she may keep her inheritance to herself.

I get that neither are divorce inducing comments but can totally see why the OP is concerned and wants to protect what she is given.

You're both feeling insecure and shaken by recent discussions, totally understandable. But money arrangements must not be swayed by emotions. I'd put safeguards in place now to ensure inheritance stays with you, this means a frank discussion with your parents. Hopefully you and husband will get through this bad patch and it'll be academic.

Thanks troodiedo.

I agree with your DH. If you want to keep a happy marriage going you shouldn't have said anything now, even if you were thinking it. The time to deal with it is when the inheritance is a reality.

It shows him you are thinking "me and you" rather than "us". I think you have some work to do to rebuild trust.

I also think this is classic Mumsnet in that if the sexes were reversed in this story you would have some completely opposite responses.

My brother and I inherited half a (small) house each when our mum died. He put his haf into buying a property to live in wiht his wife: but the money was ring fenced as a percentage of the total purchase price so that when the property is sold he - or his heirs- will get that percentage back as well as half the rest. Not that he's thinking of divorcing, but there are so many other possible scenarii - him dying and S-i-L remarrying and either having more kids or her new spouse's kids laying caim to a share of the marital home.... that money is from our parents for my brother and his children - not to be shared with any step relations they may later acquire.
Where I live this is, in fact, the law: I didn't need to ring-fence my part of the inheritance as on my death it goes automatically to my children, not to my busband prevcisely because it was inherited from my family. O/h has quite a bit of inheritance from his side and that will also go to our kids rather than to me.... Not all countries and cultures view this the same way.

Your inheritance is yours, Op. Surely if you want to buy a house together he should contribute too? And if - God forbid - you ever split up, you should get a portion of the joint assets that is equivalent to how much you put in - i.e. if you put in 80% of the mortgage, you get 80% of the value of the house.

Would you consider asking your DP to sign an agreement to ensure this? This way, you could both enjoy your inheritance, and you will protect your assets in case of separation. I don't think he could reasonably object.

My DH (and I by extension) have just received an inheritance from his Aunt and Uncle. My DH and I always knew this money was coming, it was talked about openly that DA and DU would leave their nieces and nephews everything as they had no children of their own. It has come as a considerable surprise however the size of the inheritance - not millions but certainly a generous amount which will see us comfortably through our retirement, assist our children and make a generous donation to a suitable charity on behalf of DA and DU (a MNer suggestion when I was struggling with a bit of guilt initially, which we've done and I'm thrilled about).

DH and I have been together almost 30 years. We've had our ups and downs and there has been more than one occasion, particularly when our children were younger and I was predominantly raising them alone due to DHs work, where I have discussed a desire to leave. We've always managed to work it out, and are completely committed. To my DHs credit he has not once revisited those conversations nor shown any hesitation with regard to this money (or indeed any of our mutual monies).

I believe if you are both thinking along the same lines ie. "what if we were to divorce" this speaks volumes about where you both feel you are in the marriage, whether you can admit this to each other or yourselves or not.

i do think it's tricky - i wouldn't feel i had a claim on my DH's inheritance and likewise for mine, but it's a situation where you'd expect your partner to use it on something that would benefit your family as a whole, otherwise they wouldn't be acting decently. Perhaps it's a catch-22. That's why protecting it upfront is a tricky subject, you're saying you don't trust your partner not to act selfishly and that's why the state of your marriage is called into question.

mummalugs I've tried to read all your posts but might have missed some. Can I ask if you have kids or are planning any?

My mum gave us money about a decade ago which we used together for fertility treatment.

"Just so as we keep this from descending into a judgment about the state of my marriage, please can we look more to how people approach this sort of financial matter while maintaining trust in a marriage?"

Well, first off be careful assuming what you will get. When my dad died 12 years ago my parents had a house worth about 350K. By the time my mum came to move it was worth more like 300K, she downsized to a flat and eventually went into a nursing home eventually ending up with only just over the 23k threshold people are allowed to retain before getting state help with fees.

When she died this money became mine and my sibling's inheritance and this money was then split between me, my sibling and some for Mum's grandkids. The husbands were not left any money. I chose to share my inheritance with dh and it is in our general funds.

I would always do this if my marriage was 'together'. If I felt we were not going to be together I would have kept the money separate.

I am worried you say your dh feels emasculated, and I would suggest a frank chat and maybe some counselling. Make sure he know how you feel yourself in it for the long haul together.

I think thinking and talking about the money before it comes is a bad idea, who knows what the future holds.

ToffeeForEveryone "It shows him you are thinking "me and you" rather than "us". I think you have some work to do to rebuild trust." Her dh mentioned it first, surely.

"I also think this is classic Mumsnet in that if the sexes were reversed in this story you would have some completely opposite responses."

i always give my answer as honestly as I can for any person. I have said my answer on what i would do, irrespective of sex. I am so sick of hearing that it would be different if one was a male or female. It is not always the case everyone thinks like that, even on Mumsnet!

Totally agree with Butterymuffin

"Leaving the money issue aside for a moment, if he brought up splitting and that was genuinely an out of the blue shock for you, the first thing you need is marriage counselling to sort out what the hell is going on in his head."

We did one counselling session and DH did not want to persist / I didn't push for it enough, clearly. I often ask him to get counselling with me. He does tend to see our problems as being my fault and not his, so thinks it's me that needs the counselling.

Italiangreyhound we have three DCs including a 2 month old.

Despite how it all sounds we generally have a happy family life. But my DH does have some anger there, perhaps from his own family life as a child. It's tricky. His unwillingness to face that may be part of a lot of these problems.

Or he's just a knob.

Maybe counselling for yourself could be an option?

I think inheritance should be kept individually. My other half inherited a small sum of money from his gran, and he kept all of it, though most has gone on paying our bills anyway, as we're really broke.

If I inherit money, it will be mine to decide what to do with. We were generously given a deposit for a flat by my dad, but wrote a "pre nup" contract that in a split, I would get the full amount back, and we would 50/50 share the remaining profit.

We are not married though, so not sure how it would be different. Also, your husband's comment about being left with a one bed flat, would suggest he might not have as much trust in your marriage as you would like.

Re him "threatening to leave"

Was this a case of him saying along the lines of if you don't improve XYZ then I'm going to leave
or was it more like You'd be sorry if I was to leave you! You don't even know how to program the washing machine!

If it was the former then I'd say that was "threatening" to leave. If it was more the latter then I don't think it's a serious concern to your marriage, although of course he should understand it was thoughtless and hurtful.

Unless your parents are both at death's door, the point seems rather academic anyway. The money will belong to you and you can do with it as you see fit at the time, whether that's paying off your mortgage or giving your DC a house deposit.

Did he threaten to leave first or did you mention the inheritance first?

I personally would agree that you should have born it in mind, but not said anything.

He is the one who threatened to leave.

I think it's fair enough to protect yourself OP. It's your family money and he doesn't have any right to it. And he should understand why you have misgivings.

It hasn't been long enough for you to completely trust him again and he should respect that.

It doesn't mean you're never going to spend any of the money together, just that it's protected in the mean time and that if there any any changes in your circumstances (ie a break up) the majority of your pot is protected.

I think it sounds very sensible to ensure you can take care of yourself properly if the worst should happen with your marriage. He sounds like he has one foot out the door anyway.

I think you'd be foolish to put your head in the sand and pretend he didn't mean what he said.

mummmalugs you;'ve painted a more full picture now and I feel that it is a bit shakey to me. And you have not make it more shakey!

"He does tend to see our problems as being my fault and not his, so thinks it's me that needs the counselling." OK so what problems does he see? (I am quite sure they are not your fault, that kind of blanket 'it's all her and not me' seems to come from a certain place of 'assurance', which I feel is unlikely to be true. I would imagine if you have problems there is some blame to both sides or maybe it is all him, I can't see how it can all be you when you are willing to get counseling and work on things. The fact he is unwilling to work at it suggests he is the cause of some of the things (to me).

You've got three children and one is very young, so you both have a lot on your plate, but I am guessing you are on maternity leave or are the main carer for three kids, (that's pretty standard, is that so for you?).

"But my DH does have some anger there..." is this anger directed at you, the kids, his own family, some combination of these factors?

"...perhaps from his own family life as a child." Did he have what might be called a 'deprived childhood'? If so it does seem very relevant that he gets counselling about this so he can ensure this doesn't continue to hurt him and damage and jeopardize his life now, IMHO.

"It's tricky." Can you explain what this means? Tricky for him, tricky for you, tricky for you to help him, tricky for him to trust you, tricky like you are walking on egg shells the whole time or am I imagining that because in so many relationships where the man has issues, these issues affect the wife and the family? (I am sure it would be the same if the roles were reversed but I don't read about many families where this is the case.)

"His unwillingness to face that may be part of a lot of these problems."

It seems clear it is.

So there is a big discrepancy in your upbringing? You have a family with money etc (support, love etc) and he had a much poorer upbringing or one where there was a lot less love or a lot less support?

I think you can either hide from this, as he appears to be doing, and carry on, or seek some counselling to reconcile these differences and work things out together.

Certainly for me it felt normal/natural to share the inheritance I got (which was relatively small, I can't even remember now but say between 6 and 8 K) with my dh. But if my dh had been musing about our not being together I would have felt differently.

From your OP it is clear that your dh has already benefited from your parents, as have you, ".... including the money my parents have gave us to help buy our first apartment."

Has receiving this money made him feel emasculated? I think this really is his problem to work through, your parents helped you out, as mine did with money for fertility treatment. (Ironically the money my mum gave us was probably more than twice what we eventually inherited because this was years ago before she got ill).

But it also seems clear any issues were there before the day you posted and started this thread, the day mentioned about the inheritance.

Because you said "We've had a few rough patches lately. During a couple of arguments he's suggested he could conceivably leave me/separate. Although we've always patched things up. It totally rocked my confidence at the time. I have never made this threat to our marriage."

So you are not the one who has caused this current 'shakiness'!

Italiangreyhound thanks so much for taking the time to dissect things so fully. It sounds to me you have counselling experience.

Your thoughts about his upbringing are spot on. I think he was deprived of freedom of expression and talking openly with his parents. I'm far closer to my own family, as is my DH with my family.

So, my DH took my hand today and said he totally understands that my intention is to bring us closer together by being up front about this. Also that he already knows whatever I inherit is intended for me. He's always known that. That I should keep inheritance separate if I so choose, but he'd just prefer me not to have told him I'd do this, and to have arranged it at the time. It made him feel like I was deliberately separating myself from him.

I'll still be keeping the conversation flowing about counselling and building trust. But feeling much more secure.

I also feel justified in my thoughts and actions re money, but will approach more sensitively in future.

Glad you're feeling more positive and in control OP :)

It made him feel like I was deliberately separating myself from him

Pot, Kettle Black then OP, how does he think it makes you feel when he threatens to end the marriage.

Glad you are getting on a good level of communication though, stay smart.

You see I am a bit baffled by some of the responses. My own interpretation is that there is a moral view and a legal view.

Legally, he would be entitled to half - regardless if you split or not. It's a joint asset surely?

Morally, well if you feel it's yours then that's it.