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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

So I Really Need Help to end this addiction

93 replies

SoIReallyNeedHelp · 20/02/2017 11:55

Please don't laugh or be cruel as I am being entirely serious.

I have finally realised that have a serious and self destructive addiction to a man (l'll call him X). As a result of reading on here and wider, I think I have a traumatic bond with him dating back to a very abusive incident years ago.

I belive X is a sociopath/psychopath and has very strong narcissistic traits.

Even though I know every time I see him or sleep with him, I get emotionally hurt and he is using and abusing me, I can't seem to help engaging with him and seeing him. When I see him it's so exciting like a high but then afterwards it is terrible; I often end up feeliing suicidally low/seriously depressed.

If I haven't seen him for a long time, I am always much more healthy. He will go months without contacting me and then just re-appear, full of charm and seduction; then just drop me again.

I thought it was just my personal weakness in not being able to ignore him. I have finally realised that I have an addiction and it is like trying to give up cocaine or alcohol. I think this is because of the abusive trauma.

I know this probably sounds stupid but the reason I say it's like an addiction is because I rationally don't want to see him (it is always so awful afterwards; like knowing you don't want to take the drug) but the reaon I do see him is because I actually do want to see him (the overriding part wants the drunk or the drug).

I have read Howard Halpern's book Breaking Your Addiction to A Person.

I know I need professional help here. What sort of help should I be looking for? 12 steps? Individual therapy? What kind? Any recommendations in London area?

*Also had anyone else had a similar problem and overcome it?

I feel really desperate and it is destroying my life. I feel he is draining the love and emotion and joy out of me to the point where I will be left an empty cynical dried up husk.

OP posts:
BeMorePanda · 21/02/2017 10:32

The thing is that I'm not a person with nothing to offer. I'm educated, look ok, fairly amusing, solvent, and a pretty nice person. It really hurts that I'm not enough for him or he can't treat me well or that he doesn't really want to date me or for me to be his gf.

OP it's not about you - you are taking all his flaws and addressing them as some flaw in you. His behaviour is not about you at all. The Bundy book "Why Does He Do That?" is very good at breaking this cycle of thought. Answer in a nutshell is "because he can and because he wants to". Its not about your worth, wealth, personality or any flaw or perceived flaw you might have. You need to stop worrying or focusing on HIS behavior (which is completely beyond your comprehension or control) and start addressing your own.

SoIReallyNeedHelp · 21/02/2017 10:41

Because it's quite simple really, if it's always him that eventually contacts you (when he's bored, fancies a shag misses getting his kicks from humiliating you and having you stroke his super large ego for a couple hours) HE SIMPLY CANNOT DO IT IF YOU HAVE BLOCKED ALL MEANS OF ACCESS TO YOU..

MagicChicken

There are two problems I have with this. One is I do have his landline numbers blocked on my mobile phone but I don't have his mobiel blocked because in order to do this, you need to have the number on the phone itself. I am vulnerable to contacting him when I am out drinking particularly by texting him so I prefer to not have his number at all. It's safer for me.

Second problem is that he has my work number and calls me at work and just gets put through to me. I can't tell people not to put him through to me because it would cause all kinds of gossip and I don't want to get into having to give an explanation to the receptionists. It would require an explanation given our relative statuses.

He is very high profile and very successful. It would be the relative equivalent of if you worked in a special effects company, your job is to generate work and George Lucas phones up but you've told everyone you don't want to speak to him. It would cause major gossip and speculation because there would be no good business reason not to speak to a person of that profile in the industry.

All of this blocking and so on is actually not the point. It's window dressing. Where I need to get to is the point where it doesn't matter whether I have all his numbers on my phone blocked or otherwise; the point where I don't want to see him and have the strength to just say no. That's where I need to get to.

OP posts:
SoIReallyNeedHelp · 21/02/2017 10:47

GirlScout

I'd posit it's not 'excitement' you are feeling, it's FEAR.

I agree with this. I am very scared of him. I know this. I'm scared of a repeat of the initial devalue and discard which was really traumatic for me. That is probably why it never happened again because whenever he appears in the picture I am always so accomodating of whatever he wants - so I don't have to face the verbal abuse that was totally targetted to my worst fears and vulnerabilites. He was very very accurate in his targetting of my weak points.

OP posts:
ColumbosCousin · 21/02/2017 11:03

I agree thats where you need to get to OP and a good psychotherapist if you can afford it could help - make sure you find one that suits you though. But in the short-term it will actually help if you are less contactable, because time makes it easier. Getting a new phone number would really help. Apart from that there still may be a wasp at the window every couple of summers, but they soon get swatted away and forgotten. If you need legal back up you can also consider that, if he is a serious professional he won't want that on his record. The bottom line is legal action and a non-molestation order. But in the short-term you need to strengthen your position, practically and otherwise.

ColumbosCousin · 21/02/2017 11:10

PS I read once that fear is close to excitement, and so its easy to confuse them sometimes.

The other thing that occurs to me is you being/sounding like a nice, intelligent person. Do you ever feel anger, do you know how to express it as you deem right? Its a bit psychoanalytical, but I do believe this is an issue. Normally if someone abuses you, there is of course the response to cry, but there is also the attack back response, the F* Y** response, and the I'm Getting the Hell Away from You response. All are understandable, but you are not using 2. or 3. I remember a Narcisisst short-term boyfriend did a couple of nasty things to me, very nasty. The first time I was unbelievably shocked, and terrified, I even rang the police (calmed down then). A few times later, I was just angry, fucking angry and I told him if he did that he would never see me again. Of course he did (couldn't help himself) and that was it for me. So anger can be your friend. Perhaps its something you have learnt to suppress - in your family or beliefs "nice girls don't get angry".

isthismylifenow · 21/02/2017 11:17

He was very very accurate in his targetting of my weak points.

Not unusual in a narcissistic person sadly.

Chances are though, that they aren't your weak points, he wants you believe that they are.

I have personally found, that a successful narcissist is far more dangerous than a less successful narcissist although most I know are successful in some manner

ColumbosCousin · 21/02/2017 11:26

^ I agree in some way isthismyfellow re. success, though I'm not sure why exactly. however, they will be worried about their reputation. I also agree about the "weak point" thing. They see weakness in a very narrow sense (when in the real world weakness can be strength and vice versa). Also, sometimes topsy turvey as you say. Example, it was a failing of mine that I had been to university and he had not Hmm

GirlScout72 · 21/02/2017 11:58

You're welcome. Glad I had something to add.

It's really not about him, he's just like a cinema screen (and I've done this) on which you are projecting a story - the ending of which you are trying to change. Once you realise he could be ANYBODY, any bloke who pushes your buttons would elicit the same response, you can see it's not LOVE. It's not about love. And he might be using you, but you are also using him (sorry!). It's really, really, really not about him.

The human psyche is an amazing thing, it just keeps on bringing things up over and over because there is a wise and powerful bit of you that is trying to get this resolved. If you think about it, you are trying to help yourself. It's just that currently your cunning plan for doing that is being driven by a part of yourself that is too young and too boundaryless and too vulnerable and scared to make good decisions. So perhaps the way to view it and 'hold' it is with extreme compassion for yourself. In that you really really are looking for the right thing, you are just looking in the wrong place. That's OK. Whoopsadaisy, onwards and upwards etc.

I know it all sounds a bit 'woo' but nobody else has got the answers, you've got the answers. The answers aren't external to you. Prince Charming himself could ring your doorbell tomorrow and say 'how about it babe?' and it STILL wouldn't fix it. As that's not the problem. (And this is where feminism can help, as that very powerful myth in our culture that men rescue women, or that we even need rescuing, is a lie. Sad to say NOBODY is coming to the rescue. The fabulous news is you don't need them to).

This man is telling you repeatedly who is he is, you know already how hard it is to change, a person has to be EXTREMELY motivated to change, to take responsibility, access help, make a commitment to changing, and then put those changes into practice. If he wanted to change he'd have done it already. He isn't going to change. This is who he is. And that's OK, it's a free country, if he wants to live his life like that (and why wouldn't he, being a misogynistic git is working quite well for him, he gets to have his cake and eat it) and take the consequences, that's his business.

So you could say 'that's good information, do I want that in my life?' and go from there.

I totally get that finding and affording a good therapist is difficult, I think the suggestion further up to contact some women's organisations is a good idea, as they probably have knowledge of some women's groups and schemes that you could access. Some counselling services offer discounted sessions for the unemployed or low waged too. There is help out there, it's just tricky to find.

I really wish you all the best, I honestly know how utterly terrible it feels, my abandonment trauma was so bad I used to have panic attacks, it honestly felt like falling into an abyss. But it really is possible to heal, I promise :-)

xx

springydaffs · 21/02/2017 12:26

Absolutely great posts Girlscout! But I do have to take issue with your summation of the 12 step programme.

Yy it's chock full of very damaged people. That includes men but also women. I assume - and hope! - you've experienced at length 12 step fellowships in order to draw the conclusions you have. For all the very clear faults of the members imo the model is stunning. I'd hate to throw the baby or with the bathwater.

Ime I have accessed a wide variety of therapies over most of my life in my quest for some semblance of healing. I have learnt from even the poorest. Imo 12 step is a cut above - somehow? I don't know how, except the proof is in the pudding. I witness and experience quite extraordinary shifts using and working the 12 step model. I've been at this game (healing, recovery) a very long time and I am stunned at what I see and experience in this model.

I don't know what you mean when you say the 12 step model is inherently abusive to women - except it's conception was in the 1930s when gruesome sexism held sway and is yet to entirely die out: so far, so society in general. You're going to get this shit wherever you go.

I am concerned that a model that specifically addresses the addictive issues op is facing should be dismissed so wholeheartedly. It's important to taste and see, to throw out the bones to get the core of the thing. Which imo is good.

There are also female only fellowships op - which imo is a better, sensible!, option when it comes to eg sex /love addiction. Also global phone meetings.

GirlScout72 · 21/02/2017 12:26

Sorry, just seen your previous posts. This man scares you. You need to listen to that part of yourself that knows he is dangerous. He's abusive and cruel. Not good (I know you know this).

Abusers are extremely good at undermining our confidence. They are also utterly shameless - we end up feeling ashamed, when really the shame is theirs.

And not asking you to discuss personal info, but the bugger about childhood trauma is that usually it is perpetrated by someone we also love and trust, or should have been able to love and trust. The legacy of all that is our feelings and ideas about love, get all mixed up with feelings of feeling ashamed and scared. This is a heady brew, it's profoundly disabling. Add to that the way women are socialised in our culture to be 'nice', to put men's needs before our own, to not get angry, and it can be a recipe for disaster.

He is NOT SAFE. And on a very fundamental level you know this. The anxiety and self loathing will calm right down when you let yourself believe yourself and act accordingly.

Another good to thing to remember is your self worth is not earned, it's intrinsic. Simply by virtue of being born, you are a valuable human being with worth. That's why we have the UN charter on Human Rights - human beings have value. You are not an exception. You might feel like you don't have worth, but that's not true. I used to hang onto that very tightly when things got rough.

xx

MagicChicken · 21/02/2017 12:27

I don't have his mobiel blocked because in order to do this, you need to have the number on the phone itself. I am vulnerable to contacting him when I am out drinking particularly by texting him so I prefer to not have his number at all. It's safer for me.

But you could just delete his contact details from your phone, now, this minute and then you can't be vulnerable to texting him, can you? Why haven't you done that? And you can change your mobile phone number so blocking him isn't necessary. All of this sounds like excuses because you can't actually stand to not leave a chink in the door open for him to come in and use and abuse you some more.

Second problem is that he has my work number and calls me at work and just gets put through to me. I can't tell people not to put him through to me because it would cause all kinds of gossip and I don't want to get into having to give an explanation to the receptionists. It would require an explanation given our relative statuses.

So? Does it really matter? Do you think no-one at work has any idea that you are/have been involved with him? Would it be the worst thing in the world if they had to know? Could you go to your manager or HR and explain things to them?

He is very high profile and very successful. It would be the relative equivalent of if you worked in a special effects company, your job is to generate work and George Lucas phones up but you've told everyone you don't want to speak to him. It would cause major gossip and speculation because there would be no good business reason not to speak to a person of that profile in the industry.

I understand and I know that makes it really tricky but I don't think it's impossible to find a way if you really want to. Maybe ask that the account handling for knobhead be passed to someone else from now on? No need to go into too much gory detail, just say that the professional relationship has overstepped some boundaries, you feel uncomfortable and compromised by it, you want to detach yourself but he won't let you etc....

All of this blocking and so on is actually not the point. It's window dressing. Where I need to get to is the point where it doesn't matter whether I have all his numbers on my phone blocked or otherwise; the point where I don't want to see him and have the strength to just say no. That's where I need to get to.

Again I totally understand and I agree with you. But if I can present an analogy of my own, at the moment you are an alcoholic and he is your bottle of vodka. He's still sitting on the shelf in your kitchen, beckoning you every day 'drink me, drink me.' Most days you resist but every now and again you fall of the wagon and drink the lot. But you buy another and stick it right back on the shelf just to make things harder for yourself.

If you didn't keep replacing the vodka, and had no alcohol anywhere near the house and had no access to any then you might stand a chance of getting sober. Then one day if you go somewhere and someone says would you like some vodka you can say 'no thanks, I don't drink.' And you will mean it.

That's why it's important to distance yourself from him as thoroughly as you can by blocking/deleting as many means of contact as possible.

If he rings you at work then try where possible to avoid taking his calls and field them to other colleagues. If he's put straight through say you can't talk and will call back and then if it's professional get a colleague to handle it. If it's not professional then ignore. Have a script ready for when he takes you by surprise. Practice being professional (if that is required) but aloof.
If he asks to see you just say 'No thanks, that will no longer be possible. I am seeing someone and it's getting quite serious so please don't call me again.' If you keep repeating it he will give up quicker than you probably realise. You just make it way too easy for him.

At the moment you just keep picking off the same old scab without ever giving the wound a chance to heal.

Also what is this 'abusive trauma' you keep mentioning? If he was in any way abusive or violent towards you then he doesn't have a leg to stand on as you can always tell him that you have decided the relationship is over and if he won't respect that then you will go to HR and report him for harassment and to the police and report the abuse incident. If he's that high profile in your industry then that might make him back off.

MagicChicken · 21/02/2017 12:30

It's really not about him, he's just like a cinema screen (and I've done this) on which you are projecting a story - the ending of which you are trying to change. Once you realise he could be ANYBODY, any bloke who pushes your buttons would elicit the same response, you can see it's not LOVE. It's not about love. And he might be using you, but you are also using him (sorry!). It's really, really, really not about him.

That is so, so true and the day you wake up and see it is the day you can start to move on a bit. It's a lightbulb moment. I've done it too. It took me years to see it for what it was.

springydaffs · 21/02/2017 12:34

if you didn't keep replacing the vodka, and had no alcohol anywhere near the house and had no access to any then you might stand a chance of getting sober.

This shows a basic misunderstanding of addiction, Magic. How about you'd sell your own children to get it. This is the core truth about an addict and addiction.

springydaffs · 21/02/2017 12:36

Cunning, baffling, powerful.

pregnantat50 · 21/02/2017 12:55

I think the turning point for me was when I mentioned something to my colleagues at work that my ex had done, I was almost conditioned to thinking it was normal behaviour so mentioned it casually, but one of my colleagues was very to the point, he said "you stay with him, you only have yourself to blame, he is toxic and his behaviour will escalate" this plus my children's reaction to him, they seriously thought I was in physical danger, although it was only threats and emotional abuse there was the odd comment creeping in that coupled together with an action could have become serious.

pregnantat50 · 21/02/2017 13:04

Have you got anyone in RL that can help support you with this? Its hard battling any addiction alone. I found taking each day at a time and spending it with family and friends got me through it. I planned nice things to look forward to and realised bit by bit my life got better. A routine that doesn't involve or remind you of him will help, maybe eventually getting back on the dating scene, a 'nice', 'normal' relationship or friendship will help you a lot x

GirlScout72 · 21/02/2017 13:17

Re 12 step.

It's a huge subject but yes I was very involved in multiple fellowships for well over a decade. I've attended meetings all over the world, started meetings, spoken at conventions, and attended literally thousands of meetings. I've done the steps multiple times. All the 12 steps did is compound my issues, and I'm now in touch and part of a network of many, many people who are also survivors. It's extremely harmful.

I'm also a feminist, have undergone a post grad therapy training, and have had about twenty years of therapy - some shit, and some fantastic. I credit the latter with making any difference in my life.

I absolutely stand by my view that the 12 step model is not a treatment, it's hokey faith healing. It was born of the Oxford Movement, an evangelical christian cult of which Bill Wilson was a member. It's literature and ideas have not been updated since 1935. More to the point, it doesn't work (although evangelicals will fight me to the death to say it does, it doesn't, and every study proves it, I usually get told I'm 'resentful' which is a very loaded 12 step terms as from it 'stems all forms of spiritual disease - I am not diseased, and neither is any other person struggling with substance misuse or compulsive behaviour).

It's is not faciliatated, at all, in any way, ANYBODY can (and does) start a meeting - you just hire a room, call the HQ for the pamplets and off you go. There are no checks and balances, if you learn to talk the talk, you get kudos, there is no way of checking, and abuse is RIFE - I'm talking on a scale similar to the catholic church and covered up in the same way. Google a film called the 13th Step if you don't believe me.

Bill Wilson was a terrible womanizer (even in recovery), a misogynist, and he was a white middle class American male, a power driving arrogant man who was prepared to admit that the ONLY thing he was powerless over was alcohol. These men were arrogant, self centred and had WAY TOO MUCH self esteem, for them, a process of ego deflation was probably helpful (although if you look at the success rates for AA it's 5% which is the same as no treatment at all, with worse and more prolonged relapse rates).

Firstly I don't believe addiction is a spiritual disease, I don't believe people are morally and spiritually bankrupt. It's not an equal opportunities 'illness' (it's not an illness for starters) it's disproportionately concentrated in disadvantaged groups - women, economically, minorities. There is absolutely NO oversight of the sponsorship process (I've had many sponsors and was abused by several) and I really, really don't believe doing a moral inventory with a totally unqualified person whose only qualification is they've been attending longer than you, is a treatment and for those with trauma it is DEEPLY DANGEROUS ... that's laying aside the tales I could tell you about wise old timer men doing 'fifth steps' with women (against the suggestions, but hey that's 12 step for you) and then forcing them to have sex. I could tell you a million tales like that, it's everywhere.

Plus fellowships like SLAA are now infected by the fundamentalists, hence programmes like SLAA HOW and there are many abusive women in those meetings, giving utterly damaging advice. These people think they are well, but in fact have just flipped out of the chaos of substance abuse or compulsive processes and into the rigidity of "recovery" - that is NOT recovery, it's just ideology. It's also PROFOUNDLY damaging to vulnerable people, particularly women with childhood trauma (women get addicted for very different reasons to men, sexual trauma is usually part of it).

I don't agree that women's problems are based on selfishness, ego, self will run riot, and nor to I agree that telling women they are powerless and need to ACCEPT is the answer either.

SLAA is full of men - rapists, paedophiles, and misogynists - who seem to think they are powerless who they have sex with. Sexual abuse is not a disease! Handing it over to God is not the answer. Doing the steps is not a treatment. These men have a very slick patter that can be very convincing.

Women are not told that when they go to the mall or a bar that they can trust anyone. They are not told to take 'the cotton wool out of their ears and put it in their mouth', they are not told they are diseased and powerless, they are not told to trust people who have been hanging around the mall longer than they have. The culture of victim blaming in the fellowships (looking for your 'part' in it, and seeing where you 'made decisions based on self' IS ABUSE, it's also victim blaming and sexist).

The big book of AA is still the basic text of SLAA, it's a sexist manual, particularly the chapter 'to wives'.

And saying 'there are dodgy people everywhere' is victim blaming, AA and all the fellowship HQs are acutely aware they have a massive sexual abuse problem and they DO NOTHING about it despite repeated complaints. Victims are blamed. I WILL NOT endorse a programme that blames victims and does fuck all to get rid of predators. I'm talking gang rape, organised rape and paedophilia ... it's endemic. There are men hanging around those groups, looking for women with kids, listening to what they share. Men in AA joke about going to SLAA when they want to get laid. It's disgusting.

There is no background checking, no complaints procedure, NO WAY to shut any meeting down, or hold anyone to account. The 12 step fellowships are registered charities, they are subject to ALL the same rules and yet they don't follow them due to some hokey idea of 'anonymity'

I attended CODA for a long time too, and Al Anon and ACOA and I also started and set up meetings, several, and I've come to believe that codependency is actually a feminist issue, it's internalised oppression, not a disease, it's the normal and natural consequences of being a second class citizen in the world under patriachy - the way out of it is not to say we are powerless, and 'accept the things we can not change' but to kick the doors down and demand better treatment for women and kids. it's not about admitting powerlessness but claiming our power.

Finally, the premise of addiction that AA et al uses is not backed up by any science. Our understanding of addiction and substance misuse has moved on leaps and bounds, and I don't agree that 'once an addict, always an addict' - it is possible to leave addiction or risky behaviour far far behind. There are far far better and safer ways to access help, particularly for women.

stinkin-thinkin.com/2011/06/11/why-addiction-recovery-should-be-a-feminst-issue/

vimeo.com/ondemand/the13thstep

charlottekasl.com/many-roads-one-journey1/

I could write a book on this topic, in fact I AM writing a book on this topic, but in every way, and I mean EVERY the 12 steps are not a treatment for ANYTHING, and worse than that, the fellowship is NOT SAFE. I've seen that behaviour over and over again with my own eyes. If you are a long time member you've heard the joke (made quite openly) to 'get her on her back before she gets on her feet'.

I don't want to derail this thread, but there is a wealth of feminist writing out there on this topic, there are also now a huge amount of resources for anyone that is struggling with substance abuse or compulsive behaviour that is empowering and not toxic or shaming.

I do NOT recommend any woman attend any 12 step fellowship (oh and abuse and rape is also very prevalent in rehabs, they just call it 'acting out' and cover that up too, with most therapists being 'two hatters' - ie 'recovering addicts' whose only qualification on the topic being their attendance at 12 step fellowships).

I am very very clear on my views, and have been very involved in working with sexual abuse survivors from 12 step fellowships, it's not an isolated incident, it's inherent in the structure and the ideology of the place.

Sorry OP, won't derail your post further, but for the love of GOD don't go to SLAA.

MagicChicken · 21/02/2017 13:25

This shows a basic misunderstanding of addiction, Magic. How about you'd sell your own children to get it. This is the core truth about an addict and addiction.

No it doesn't. I said she 'might stand a chance' of getting sober, I didn't say I could guarantee it would be easy and straightforward so long as she didn't buy any more vodka to keep on the shelf. Confused

You don't have to be a genius to work out that the first step is going to be to pour all the vodka down the sink and to not buy any more to keep on the shelf for 'occasional use' like non alchoholics can do.

It's never going to be easy but it's a damn sight easier when you aren't around it, smelling it, seeing it, knowing it's there and watching other people drink it.

AtrociousCircumstance · 21/02/2017 13:35

Maybe it is specifically this hideous man's narcissism which keeps you coming back - for he has broken your ego so much, you need your OWN narcissism and self love. He represents self-love and egoism to such an extreme and perhaps he seems like the walking solution to your crushed sense of self - you need what he has: self-belief.

And that idea takes grip: he took it away, maybe only he can return it to you...which is of course completely irrational as you know all too well.

What you need to do is focus on being bigger than him. You can be bigger than him! Practice behaving in a way that declares that you are more amazing, more charismatic, more interesting, sexier and more desirable than him. Make affirmations to your mirror. Put everything you have into boosting yourself, rather than trying to focus on removing him from your psyche.

Feed your psyche with the self-love it needs more than ever. Do all you can to give yourself pleasure and comfort. Build yourself up in any way you can.

You can give yourself permission to be narcissistic and put in those much-needed building blocks.

It won't make you an abusive bastard like him - it will heal you.

Easier said than done I know but your attachment to him is highlighting a real deficit within you that is ravenous, and you can address it yourself. Good luck Flowers

GirlScout72 · 21/02/2017 13:47

Addiction is NOT 'cunning baffling and powerful' - that's religious talk. It's a maladaptive coping behaviour and we are not powerless over it.

There are also degrees of dysfunction, some temporary, and some that require lifelong abstinence - that's entirely down to the individual circumstances and person. There is no one size fits all. It's also not a life sentence or a life long diagnosis. You can do the work, and leave it behind and MOVE ON.

And I agree, giving yourself every chance to get well is key, including removing temptation and getting help. No contact is really the way to do it, even moving jobs if you feel in harm's way.

There is a lot of bullshit spouted about addiction not based on any science or studies. Process addictions are usually about attachment issues. Which is fairly obvious. Sort that out and the problem will go away.

springydaffs · 21/02/2017 14:28

Then I look forward to your book GirlScout!

You're obviously the expert (not meant aggressively). I'd like to ask more but perhaps here isn't the place, as you say.

Though a pp makes a good point, which is to take this a day at a time. You could start there, op.

shesnotme · 21/02/2017 14:48

Problem with blocking is you can unblock easily. Good advice on here.

GirlScout72 · 21/02/2017 15:44

Thank you Springy. Not taken aggressively :-)

Honestly I was a true believer, I loved the fellowships, but that voice inside of me got louder and louder. In the end I was pretty much chased out as I would not shut up about the rank abuse of power and frankly dangerous advice being doled out.

I also came to see that I'm not an addict and never was, I was referred to AA by a zealous and misinformed therapist and my female socialisation meant I did what I was told and went. There I was told 'no one ends up here by accident' and actually they do, and if I'd consulted the actual medical guidelines for substance misuse I don't even meet the criteria for risky drinking really.

I had issues for sure, but all I did was recreate my trauma over and over again and disempower myself further.

They are not safe places for women and totally at odds with our current understanding on DV, rape, trauma and even why women end up feeling so profoundly disabled and disempowered in the first place.

It really would take a book to explain it all, but for women in particular there are far better ways. I also still rankle when I think of all the credit I gave to a weird religion for my OWN resilience.

What has helped me is feminism, the solidarity of women, very good skilled trauma therapy, and learning to trust myself. 12 step just reinforced that I could not trust my own thinking, that my best thinking got me here.

I can see now that my response to what had happened to me was SANE and LOGICAL, it wasn't that I lacked acceptance, but that what had happened was totally unacceptable!

imho, women need to learn to listen to themselves, have their reality affirmed, learn to have boundaries, to stand up for themselves, to get angry (that's a very big no no in 12 step, usually called 'self pity' or 'resentment' - the latter is actually just a mild feeling of irritation and is totally normal!) and take, not surrender, control of themselves.

The rape culture in AA and other fellowships really turned my stomach and there is no way of changing it. So I chose to walk away. At which point the literally hundreds of friends I had all dumped me as 'sick'. That was illuminating.

I've never looked back. I'm so much happier, and I'm being authentic, no longer churning out that story I'd been taught so well about 'what we were like, what happened and what we are like now' - as I'm quite funny and articulate, I was a popular speaker (there are still tapes me of me knocking around there, on the speaker sites) and after a while, even when I was speaking, and getting laughs, cheers, and claps, a voice in me, that was getting louder and louder just kept saying 'taht's not true'.

I realised I'd done what I'd always done, been a 'good girl' and tried to do it 'right' - the 12 steps were a perfect way to beat myself up in public 'admit the exact nature of my wrongs'.

I realised I'm not wrong, there's nothing wrong with me, what's wrong is abuse, and sexism, and rape, and being ignored and belittled cos I'm female, being told that I don't matter as much. I did not get raped because I was drunk, a rapist picked me as an easy target, as he knew in our culture, I'd have no leg to stand on, as I'd be judged not him. The problem wasn't me, it was him. And the only reason I was acting out like that was because of what had happened to me as a kid, not because I was spiritually bankrupt (I had a 12 step therapist tell me that, seriously that was their diagnosis, 'spiritually bankrupt' ffs). If I had a time machine, I'd go back to me as a teenager, give myself a big hug, and say 'honey, the only thing that's wrong with you, is you think there's something wrong with you'.

All I did in AA etc is recreate all those dynamics that were hurting me, and more relevantly, it wasn't my fault, as that's what the fellowship does, and what it's based on. It's inherently harmful to women.

I seriously haven't given it a backwards glance, which is fairly miraculous after ten plus years of being bawled at that if 'you go out there you'll die'.

The cognitive dissonance, gaslighting and bait and switch in the whole thing is so obvious to me now.

And I was in an abusive relationship like the OP during my time in Al Anon and CODA, I look back now and all I feel is compassion for me, driven utterly demented by all their stupid hokey 'help' - with people not qualified to give me advice, giving me very dangerous advice.

Then I found there is a whole world of women survivors out there, who all felt like I did. And I'd seen some really fucked up stuff whilst I was part of it, but OMG the stories they had, they were just appalling. After that there was no going back. Best thing I ever did was get away from that place.

But yes conversation for another day in another place.

springydaffs · 21/02/2017 23:52

Reminds me of the church. And I'm a Christian. Though there was a time nowhere near passed when I loathed the church with a loathing. I seem to have made it my life's work to get involved with hugely flawed bodies in order to battle my way to the kernel. Which is God (speaking for myself here). All in, it's been worth it imo; both the church and 12-step.

Isn't feminism another body, another movement of great promise/s? That is as flawed as everything else. It's the human element that does all the corrupting I find.

GirlScout72 · 22/02/2017 09:11

Humans are corrupting yes but it's patriarchal institutions that allow abuse to happen, cover it up and prevent justice.

For me, feminism is a structural analysis of power, and the systems of power that benefit men and harm women. The church and AA (and the courts, the list goes on, the medical profession etc etc) are that system.

It's not enough to write it off as 'people' - it's MEN.