I think my mother is narcissistic and I don't know how to feel about it.

[phoenixnix]

I've been doing a lot of reading recently and I'm pretty certain that my mother is narcissistic. What she has always said about herself is that she's extremely introverted, anxious, unlucky and a very nice person who has made a lot of sacrifices.

What it's really been like...she acts as if she is superior to EVERYBODY. Whole groups of people are generalised about, for example all teachers are idiots. She is preoccupied with class and looks down on anybody she considers lower class than her, using pretty dreadful terms. She despises anybody upper class too. She dislikes strangers, neighbours, attractive women, people on TV.

She is always right and cannot take any form of disagreement or criticism. Even gentle banter will upset her. As a child/teen I used to stand up to her, but this just got me labelled as a difficult, horrible person. She regularly told me that I was mentally ill and that she thought I was schizophrenic (I'm not). I realise now that I was the classic scapegoat. As an adult I've learnt to deal with her by just tiptoeing around her, agreeing with her, massaging her ego, walking on eggshells. If I were to challenge her on anything she'd start having a panic attack.

She is an absolute victim who believes she has it worse than anybody else, ever. She talks constantly about her health problems (which I'm sure are real but none of which are serious.) Phrases I grew up hearing, thousands of times - "the gods have got it in for me", "somebody has put a curse on me", "I won't make old bones". Things which other people would regard as an inconvenient yet normal part of life, such an appliance breaking, she seemingly can't cope with. She won't look forward to holidays or christmas because she's convinced she'll be ill.

Everything is about her. When I ring her (and it's always that way round, she never rings me) the entire conversation revolves around her health and problems. If I were to ring her tomorrow and tell her I was getting divorced, I know exactly what her reaction would be. She can't cope with this right now. Why is this happening to her.

I realise that I am constantly seeking her approval. When I book holidays, buy furniture, clothes, change my hair - lots of things - I'm hoping that she will approve of my choices. Sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn't. She often turns her nose up at things, such as what I cook. I can only imagine the absolute shitstorm if I did the same. An ironic one recently was about my house. I always make sure it's super clean and tidy when she comes round. She told me disdainfully that it's like a showhome and clearly I have too much time on my hands! I can't win.

Not that she comes round often, I'm usually the one to do the running. She's always too busy or too stressed. A phone call will often start with her huffing that she can't talk for long. There's always this feeling that there's something more important than me. If she's going on holiday in the coming fortnight, or has an appointment in the coming week, she cannot see me at all. It's too stressful for her. If I were to question this (I don't) I would be told that I don't understand.

My dad I think has been the enabler. As a teen, if I stood up to her, he would come and be very nice to me but urge me to go and apologise. He would acknowledge that I might not have done anything wrong, but this was the way it had to be. I think he is scared of her wrath and will do anything to keep the peace.

Perhaps unusually from what I've read, I have a good relationship with my siblings as adults. I don't think I could talk to them about any of this though as I suspect they would just defend her.

So....I just don't know how to feel now. I love my mum and a lot of the time (as long as I'm careful) I like her too. She can be very funny, intelligent and I can have interesting conversations with her. But only if I'm very careful. I feel disloyal for posting all of this. I think the only way forward is to carry on and remember that she can't help the way she is. But I think it's going to be so much harder from now on.

In terms of putting boundaries in place, do less. Call less, visit less, invite her round less. You might want to consider counselling to address your need for her approval because you won't ever truly be able to disengage until you get over this.

My DM has never made a serious suicide threat but she has said numerous times over the years that she's thought about it.

One strange thing she said was that if my sibling (the golden child) ever committed suicide then she would too.

Now I know that if any of us lost a child then we would probably feel like dying. But to my knowledge my sibling hasn't attempted or threatened suicide. So why say that to me? And why single them out specifically rather than say that if any of us did it she would want to? Why wouldn't she want to live for the rest of us?

Kinddogs it is definitely helping. to everybody who has been through this.

Yes, that's very weird phoenix. When we had the big row that precipitated NC (well, it wasn't really a row, she slagged me off to my brother he told me what she'd said and so I didn't answer when she phoned later that day, she twigged I knew and went on the offensive, total batshit defcon 1), well anyway, once she'd realyl twigged she'd gone to far and I was ignoring her, she said to my brother that the only thing keeping her alive were her cats. So, not him, or her grandchildren?
I don't believe any of my mother's suicide threats have been remotely serious, it's all part of the manipulation.

Thank you for the suggestion of looking up narcissistic fleas SeaEagleFeathers. I have been reading some of those articles that came up.

Your mother certainly made it clear she loved the golden child in your family the most, Phoenix and it was odd, as you say for her not to say "If anything happened to Golden...", rather than say "If Golden committed suicide..." Rather a burden for Golden too, I should imagine!

I only started proper self care/awareness after mine died(articles have mentioned this can be missing when there are narc parents).

Please Phoenix start now for yourself and get your life on course including with very good counselling if you can. With good boundaries and awareness you may not need to throw out the baby with the bath water so to speak.

I don't think all fathers of mothers like this are all just enablers. It has come up on some other threads that some apparently passive fathers/husbands can have an insidious control and abusiveness in their own ways. Perhaps they could be described as being "Good Guy" narcissists. They may be leaving such a vacuum around the mother, and making her look so bad, that even more trouble is caused in the family as she tries to balance things alone.

I think some get beaten down too. Or quietly try to support the children but without setting the mother off.

As someone said to me, if they tried to divorce the mother, she'd have got custody because she was convincing. Then the children would have had no one to protect them.

It's just a tragedy sometimes.

Does anyone here live in Devon area? Have recently joined anxiety support group but its so hard having few people to talk with that understand what this is like to live with!
As a teenager felt scapegoated as the ill one, never properly emotionally supported. Remember being bullied and asking for help with it and she didn't do anything except tell a teacher, It came up in conversation the other day and she said "well what was I supposed to do? I said when my daughter had bullying I was straight on the phone to the teacher about it! She said me and your father had bullying as kids we just got on with it or hit them back! I said you told me not to hit back... She said no we said on my hit back if they hit you, never hit first. I didn't do anything at the time as I was scared of getting into trouble if I did attack and scared I'd have no help! I did tell nteacher but they didn't do anything, she then went onto say well, what was I supposed to do...you were friends with that girl and even stayed over her house twice and had tea! If you were being verbally abused why were you still speaking to her... I said she was sat next to me in every class and couldn't easily avoid her.I said you still should of rung up or gone to school and complained about it! She said I did back you up and referred to several years before when she angrily told a girl off that hit me over head with wooden pole and caused egg sized bump. She said see I did help you then! I said I should bloody think so if someone whacks your daughter with heavy pole! She said even your brother thought you were odd for still playing with that girl after what she did to you and told u to saty away from her. That disturbed me as I can't remember playing with her after that,and if I did I think it was because she had apologies and i d forgiven her and was lonely probably, only having a brother to play with and struggled to keep friends.

Could have written the OP word for word at points... Have come to the same realisation in the last couple of weeks and whilst a bit more empowered to deal with it, am also sad that I'm going to have to distance myself, share less etc.
I'm also worried that she'll have passed on certain traits to me and what will happen if I have children...

My mother's a vulnerable and my sister a grandiose - no wonder there's no room in the family for me!

I've been wondering about my mother for years. I recognised my sister as one many years ago, but my mother is different. Reading about the two types made it clear, and there's so much in the parrishmiller link that resonates.

Boundaries are a big thing:

The bathroom in her old house didn't have a lock on the door, ever. I remember my sister's old boyfriend walking in on me when I was a teen, so you'd think she might have fitted on then, but no, absolutely no need. She'd think nothing of walking in from the toilet to wash her hands when I was in the shower, and commenting on my weight, and threw a hissy fit when I told her not to. I used to have to move furniture around to make sure she couldn't open the door.

I was being sexually assualted by someone over a year or so. Despite being in my 20s by then he was in a position of authority and I found it hard to report him, or do much about it. My mum knew, and turned it into a joke with her friends. I remember he once insisted on coming to her house to drop something off for me and invited himself to tea. I begged her not to go out and leave him with me. Tbf she stayed in, but then she insisted I take him upstairs and show him the improvements she'd made to the spare room, despite him never having seen it in the first place so had nothing to compare it to. I argued, but she insisted, and of course, given the opportunity, he put his hands on me. I'll never understand why she did that (and, of course, she wouldn't remember now if I asked her).

Then there are texts and emails. When I first got a mobile she was entranced by the envelope that appeared on the screen and would demand to see it, but would then demand to know who was saying what to me. (Again, I was in my 20s by then, not a young child she had to protect.) And recently I mentioned not wanting my sister to be able to access my emails (there was a legitamate concern for this) and she smiled at me and asked if I'd mind her reading them. She was most put out when I said yes. (I am an adult. There's adult material in my emails, esp between me and DP. Does she really think she should read them???)

Sorry, I could go on all day. Apologies for butting in. I think I was, originally, going to add something useful but it's been too cathartic just ranting.