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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I think my mother is narcissistic and I don't know how to feel about it.

83 replies

phoenixnix · 05/01/2017 12:09

I've been doing a lot of reading recently and I'm pretty certain that my mother is narcissistic. What she has always said about herself is that she's extremely introverted, anxious, unlucky and a very nice person who has made a lot of sacrifices.

What it's really been like...she acts as if she is superior to EVERYBODY. Whole groups of people are generalised about, for example all teachers are idiots. She is preoccupied with class and looks down on anybody she considers lower class than her, using pretty dreadful terms. She despises anybody upper class too. She dislikes strangers, neighbours, attractive women, people on TV.

She is always right and cannot take any form of disagreement or criticism. Even gentle banter will upset her. As a child/teen I used to stand up to her, but this just got me labelled as a difficult, horrible person. She regularly told me that I was mentally ill and that she thought I was schizophrenic (I'm not). I realise now that I was the classic scapegoat. As an adult I've learnt to deal with her by just tiptoeing around her, agreeing with her, massaging her ego, walking on eggshells. If I were to challenge her on anything she'd start having a panic attack.

She is an absolute victim who believes she has it worse than anybody else, ever. She talks constantly about her health problems (which I'm sure are real but none of which are serious.) Phrases I grew up hearing, thousands of times - "the gods have got it in for me", "somebody has put a curse on me", "I won't make old bones". Things which other people would regard as an inconvenient yet normal part of life, such an appliance breaking, she seemingly can't cope with. She won't look forward to holidays or christmas because she's convinced she'll be ill.

Everything is about her. When I ring her (and it's always that way round, she never rings me) the entire conversation revolves around her health and problems. If I were to ring her tomorrow and tell her I was getting divorced, I know exactly what her reaction would be. She can't cope with this right now. Why is this happening to her.

I realise that I am constantly seeking her approval. When I book holidays, buy furniture, clothes, change my hair - lots of things - I'm hoping that she will approve of my choices. Sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn't. She often turns her nose up at things, such as what I cook. I can only imagine the absolute shitstorm if I did the same. An ironic one recently was about my house. I always make sure it's super clean and tidy when she comes round. She told me disdainfully that it's like a showhome and clearly I have too much time on my hands! I can't win.

Not that she comes round often, I'm usually the one to do the running. She's always too busy or too stressed. A phone call will often start with her huffing that she can't talk for long. There's always this feeling that there's something more important than me. If she's going on holiday in the coming fortnight, or has an appointment in the coming week, she cannot see me at all. It's too stressful for her. If I were to question this (I don't) I would be told that I don't understand.

My dad I think has been the enabler. As a teen, if I stood up to her, he would come and be very nice to me but urge me to go and apologise. He would acknowledge that I might not have done anything wrong, but this was the way it had to be. I think he is scared of her wrath and will do anything to keep the peace.

Perhaps unusually from what I've read, I have a good relationship with my siblings as adults. I don't think I could talk to them about any of this though as I suspect they would just defend her.

So....I just don't know how to feel now. I love my mum and a lot of the time (as long as I'm careful) I like her too. She can be very funny, intelligent and I can have interesting conversations with her. But only if I'm very careful. I feel disloyal for posting all of this. I think the only way forward is to carry on and remember that she can't help the way she is. But I think it's going to be so much harder from now on.

OP posts:
pklme · 08/01/2017 06:11

That's helpful, Thankyou. I haven't seen towering rages since I was a child, but spiteful comments, and controlling everything...
Generally it got better for me when I detached emotionally. I'm not responsible for her feelings etc. Still catches me out occasionally though.

Belindaboo · 08/01/2017 07:14

Phoenixnix: I also was told the same sort of inappropriate crap that you just shouldn't ever say to a child:

" you were a difficult baby always" (err I was a baby ffs) "The first row we ever had as a married couple was your fault"(again, I was a baby) "I can see why no other kids at school like you" (I was around 9 and actually yes, I did have a lot of friends but I was at the stage where I realised our home wasn't normal and a complete shit tip so avoided brung them home) "It's no wonder you have no friends" (just what every year 9 kid wants to hear when going through being wendied by someone new to their class)
"You're easily led" ( anyone who really knows me knows this is not the case Grin)
" I might kill myself today" ( this in particular caused unimaginable anxiety to me as a primary school child)

I too was a straight A student and no bother. It was easier to choose this route as I saw it as a ticket out of there rather than choosing to take the destructive path but she likes to take the credit for my success " your brains are from my side of the family'. What I notice now was that actually growing up in such an emotionally chaotic environment has been good for me at work given that I can ignore interference BUT there are some scenarios that instantly take me back to that childhood place of insecurity. Being left out of drinks/lunch/party invites is one as I instantly think 'maybe she was right, no one likes me' but outwardly smile and move on. I also have a golden child sibling who is younger and obviously does everything better. Grin

I have one child - a combination of a bad birth but subconsciously I think I have just the one so that I can never be in a position of having a favourite. I have a man who loves me dearly and defends me from her spiteful tongue. He is the only person who knows why she is like as in RL the only one I have told. There is so much shame in your own mother not liking you and one of the last taboos I think left for women to share to say out loud 'I don't like my mother'. It is only now at the age of 45 and being a mother myself to a wonderful, beautiful, funny, talented, quirky and kind child I can see what nurturing can do for a child's confidence and esteem. I have taken my own childhood as a total blueprint for what not to do raising a child. My child is loved, secure, has a beautiful, clean and tidy home ready to welcome her friends at any time. She is not an emotional punchbag for my own frustrations, nor is she a crutch for my issues. She is my daughter and I could not be prouder of her.

Obviously my DM takes all of the credit for her grandaughter's snd daughter's success' " I taught them everything they know" Confused Grin

I have low contact with her which drives her insane.

Teabay · 08/01/2017 09:02

Thank you for your post Phoenix - it was something I could've written, right down to the examples.
My parents have been so good at making me feel responsible for their emotions and well being that I then ended up married for 14 years to an expert in subtle EA.
Following a very recent divorce I'm now finding that my DAD (having learnt from the best) is now showing the same traits.
Any advice?

Teabay · 08/01/2017 09:02

DD not DAD, crazy autocorrect!

Birdandsparrow · 08/01/2017 09:28

Yes, mine did/does the suicide threats. A friend's mum killed herself with an overdose of sleeping tablets when I was about 12 and my mum knew all about it and was also on sleeping tablets and anti depressants. She got me to watch as she flushed them down the toilet, told me she'd been stockpiling them to kill herself but wouldn't now do it "because of me". So, no pressure then. That really cemented my FOG I think, I mean I existed to keep her alive basically in my mind.
Once we had the row that started the LC and then NC she also threatened to kill herself. "you driving me to suicide", also had "you'll send me to an early grave". If I argued back about anything she'd done, she'd just totally deny it "you have a very vivid/fertile imagination" was her phrase. Accused me of being hysterical. Accused me of not loving my son and that she pitied him. I was pregnant with hyperemesis and he woke very early and was a challenging 2.5 yr old (non verbal and pulling everything off bookcases over and over). Made me cry and get upset then said I was hysterical and not cut out to be a mother.
She told my brother (scapegoat) that she wished he'd never been born.

Teabay · 08/01/2017 09:43

Wow Bird no wonder you went NC - a good choice for your own sanity.

Birdandsparrow · 08/01/2017 09:52

Teabay that's just little bits, it's nothing compared to the total batshit mentalness of what preceded NC, which is quite good actually, it helps to hear other people be shocked by it as you get so used to it when you grow up with it. In between all that there were times when she was lovely and we were very close. Although in hindsight, close on her terms and actually not in a healthy way, totally enmeshed.
But it's what's hard about NC, people don't get it and the batshittery is so out there and such a long catalogue of awfulness that you sound insane and that you must be making it up or at least embellishing it, or be part of the problem, nobody would behave like that to their daughter surely, she loves you really. It's easier to just say nothing, and then people often assume you are somehow heartless. None of it is easy, even once they aren't in your life.

pklme · 08/01/2017 10:51

Most helpful comment ever (not!) when I was struggling with something my DM was doing-"oh, you're so lucky to still have a mother. Mine died four years ago and I miss her every day..."

pklme · 08/01/2017 10:52

Mine isn't extreme, but I think she is reigned in by DF. Possibly enabled by him, too. Can that go together, do you think? He is a tower of strength to her, treats her like a princess. Without his care (he is terminally ill), I think she may get much more extreme.

Huldra · 08/01/2017 11:39

Pklme

I have a Hyacinth Bucket one too, or as I call it Naice. She would never swear, get drunk, or anything like that because she is NICE. The house is beautiful, when catering she puts loads of effort in, she can be very generous. It's amazing how she pulls it off when underneath she is very controlling and looks down her nose at everyone.

My df used to keep her under control too, she was constantly treating him with distain, giving him a flow of instructions and corrections. When we visited my df could see her beginning to strop and would get us all up and running around doing things. When he died she fell apart and started to be much more openly shit to people, especially to me who she had always treated as the difficult child. Basically she decided that I should be treated the same way as my df. It was wierd one day she walked up to me and said that I was just like him and I wanted to run her life. From that moment she started huff and puff at everything I did or said.

Birdandsparrow · 08/01/2017 12:19

Yes, totally normal for there to be an enabler.

picklemepopcorn · 08/01/2017 12:43

Oh, huldra! That doesn't bode well for me... Thank you, though.

picklemepopcorn · 08/01/2017 12:44

Sorry, it's me, pklme!

Jellymuffin · 08/01/2017 14:03

This thread is so enlightening! I believe I too have a narc mother and can identify with so many of the situations and feelings above. Just out of interest, does anyone else's mum use depression as a smokescreen for their narcissistic behaviours? My mum seems to use it as a 'get out of jail free' card to ensure no one questions or criticises her behaviour while having no empathy for others (I had shocking PND and when I tried to open up to her about it she tried to trump it by blaming a previously unmentioned suicide attempt on myself and my husband). The 'brilliant relationship as long as I am am careful' statement has knocked me for 6!

Jellymuffin · 08/01/2017 14:09

This is actually bothering me a bit now, may start my own thread. I don't want to hijack!

phoenixnix · 08/01/2017 14:18

Jelly everything is blamed on and excused by DM's depression and anxiety. Except she won't seek any help. She doesn't want to go on medication and wouldn't entertain the idea of counselling because they're all idiots.

OP posts:
Jellymuffin · 08/01/2017 14:37

Thanks Phoenix, when my mother is particularly unreasonable she will send round my dad with gumpf about depression and how I need to accommodate her - like when she called my husband out of bed at 2 in the morning when I was 8 months pregnant to drive to her house across town and taxi her pissed friends home (they tried to bung him a fiver and he was mortified) that was what the suicide attempt was about because when they called be I dared gently say it was a bit out of order. She didn't speak to me for 2 weeks!

Birdandsparrow · 08/01/2017 14:56

does anyone else's mum use depression as a smokescreen for their narcissistic behaviours?

YES, absolutely. But, she almost revels in the drama of the anxiety and depression. Yes, uses it as an excuse too. Any time an argument isn't going her way, she takes to her bed and sulks with "her nerves" and mutters darkly about breakdowns and so on.
I don't doubt she is a depressive, anxious person, but, she won't do anything to actually help it, just pop pills. Any attempts to try to get her to do any sort of CBT type stuff, there's always a poor me excuse. One of the beginnings of me wondering about her, long before the big blow ups and working out she had a lot of narc traits, was her bleating on about depression and claiming the pills had no effect whatsoever and at the same time refusing all help and I just thought, I think she's putting a lot of this on. Sounds horrible, but I know her.

EssentialHummus · 08/01/2017 15:06

One of the beginnings of me wondering about her, long before the big blow ups and working out she had a lot of narc traits, was her bleating on about depression and claiming the pills had no effect whatsoever and at the same time refusing all help and I just thought, I think she's putting a lot of this on

I once suggested to mine that she see a therapist or counsellor. She said that she had been once, but the therapist just said that there was nothing wrong with her, just that her life was very tough. said no therapist, ever

KindDogsTail · 08/01/2017 15:10

My mother was a narcissist with a violent temper. I managed to get on quite well with her by being very careful, having some boundaries about what we talked about, and and seeing her just once a year. Her best side waas extraodinary though - creative, vivacious, generous.

Sadly, it is difficult not to be a narc oneself (possibly in some slight;y different way so it is difficult to recognise in oneself) after a childhood with one, in my opinion.

You are definitely right about your mother Phoenix, and now you are clear about what is happening that in itself will help a lot.

TabbyT · 08/01/2017 21:30

My mother is a narcissist too. It is incredibly hard, but reading threads on here with people who have been through similar things is hugely helpful. My mother threatened to kill herself over Christmas and I haven't spoken to her since. I have realised that I can't take any more. Luckily I live 200 miles away.

Sending hugs to all going through a similar situation.

SeaEagleFeather · 08/01/2017 22:14

kinddogtails Do look up narcissistic Fleas. It might be very helpful and even better, it seems to be accurate :)

Pimplemousse · 09/01/2017 01:00

There are some uncanny similarities here- my DM also made suicide threats if I didn't agree with her on a major decision issue that came up for our family- that fucking terrified me as a child.
Then also as an adult I suggested to my DM gently that she might benefit from some therapy or counselling in view of her awful life she was always talking about.
She said she wouldn't go as there was nothing they would have to say that she didn't already know Hmm
I definitely had some narc traits when younger but feel I am hyper conscious of it now and make a big effort to be self reflective to stamp out any narciness in myself.

Iusedtobedontcall · 09/01/2017 01:20

This all sounds very familiar. My mum has the list of health anxieties. I once thought she was dying when she told me she was very ill when I was 18. I was v upset at uni. It was all untrue. She has a lot of cosmetic surgery and loves everyone to admire how young she looks. If she brings me out, she loves to tell strangers 'this is my daughter, she's 34' so that she can see all of the shocked faces, as she looks too young. If I'm upset about something, it stresses her out, she can't cope: ' why does this always happen to me...'
She used to call me a village idiot when I was little if she was angry with me. She would follow me around the house in a temper if I tried to walk away.
She is also always on her way out somewhere or busy or stressed.

KindDogsTail · 09/01/2017 11:44

I had not realised there was an illness and suicide-threat version of narcissism till this thread came up. Now I can definitely see narcissism may well be behind another person in my life who is always ill. I thought it was a form of self-harm or hypochondria before, but it must be for control and to get attention.

Thank you for bringing this all up Phoenix. Your thread is helping other people. I hope some answers from the other posters here help you, by showing you are not alone.