Marriage and finances

[Tetley08]

Going into 2017 I would really like to get our household finances in order. However my husband and I keep arguing about it & can't seem to agree on the fundamentals. I'd like us to come up with a fair solution so that we no longer have this hanging over our heads. I would like us both to be happy with how we deal with our finances.
My husband earns a decent amount of money in a fairly stressful job, he works long hours and travels a fair bit but overall he enjoys it. I was made redundant several years ago when our son was about a year old. I have since retrained and now work for myself. I earn about 25% of my husbands salary. When I decided to retrain this was done with my husbands approval & encouragement. I now try to work 2 full days when our son goes to after school club and 3 shorter days, just school hours. Again I ran this past my husband who at the time said this was fine. On those days I take our son to sports lessons or play dates which I feel is beneficial to him. As I'm self employed there are quieter periods when I don't have as much work but during this time i do household tasks, cleaning, shopping etc. I do pretty much all of the childcare during the week. During school holidays he'll take time off to look after our son the odd day here and there but it falls to me to take the lions share of time off, and for the most part I don't get paid.
Now id really like opinions on how our finances should be split? Or if you have a similiar set up, how do you do it.

If he disagrees with equality because you "chose" to take care of his responsibilities regarding the house and child raising, tell him you now chose to concentrate on your career and maximise your earning potential. He has been free to do this until now so he can't begrudge you the same needs you met and adjust his workload to ensure he is reliably consistent to take up his half of these responsibilities.

Be sure to explain what his day will be. Half puck ips and drop offs, half after school clubs, half all chores, half making celebrations special...

OP - He is not just quite selfish. He is unhinged.
Seriously what kind of attitude is that?
I haven't earned a penny for 15 years because I've been a SAHM to 4 DC. DH has no concept whatsoever of the money he earns as being "his". We're a family and we each play a part. I have never had to ask him for anything. He would be appalled if he thought I felt worried about money or somehow indebted to him while I'm taking care of our kids and everything else outside his job spectrum.
It has nothing to do with how much people earn or free time or whatever. It's about attitude and mutual respect.
Was he like this when you were dating? Does he come from a weird family background or something? I just can't imagine how any man could take this attitude when he has a family.
Show him this thread. How old is he?

Exactly ! What Madinche1sea said.

Yes I have posted recently about other issues we have. I agree that his attitude screams out that he just doesn't respect me, however when we try and talk about this it always ends in an argument as he is adamant that I am being unreasonable. I'd love to show him this thread but he'd just talk his way out of it and probably say that I haven't given the full picture. His whole argument seems to be that I should be eternally grateful for everything that he does and the fact that I've been given this opportunity of a new career doing something I love. Which is true and I am grateful and in some respects lucky to be in this position. However, and as I have pointed out to him, I have made sacrifices too, mainly financial ones. I have also tried to point out that I have done this to benefit our whole family. I can do pick ups and drop offs so he doesn't have to worry about that side of things I can take time off in the holidays and sickness. I don't know, he just doesn't get it. I did all this with his blessing...if I could turn back time and go back to my well paid secure job I probably would. Now if we split up, I have no security, I don't earn eenough money and will struggle to get a mortgage...he'll be fine however...

To play devil's advocate a bit...

Legally, it simply isn't 'family money' or 'household income' - unless you can get him to agree and transfers it all into a joint account then he is right. It IS his money.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/relationships/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/

He (and you) have the right to acquire and hold any land, savings or property in your own rights - he doesn't have to give half of it to you. Likewise, if he builds up any debts, they are his alone and you are not responsible for them. If you get divorced, his and your property will be taken into account when arriving at a financial settlement.

He has an obligation to support you and your DC, which it sounds like he is doing if he pays all the bills. The suggestion that he is financial abusing you because he doesn't want to pay you 50% of everything HE earns just to be with you is frankly laughable.

This is really the sort of thing that needs to be discussed and agreed upon before you get married; what does marriage mean to each of you? For some sharing everything 50/50 is the only way, others prefer to retain their financial independence as much as possible. It doesn't make either of you bad people to have different views on this, but you have to come to some sort of agreement that works for both of you.

Tetley

Who died and made this bloke king?. How dare he assume that you should be eternally grateful to him as the Big Man. He is now being financially controlling to you as well. He is using his increased power when it comes to earnings against you and in turn his child. Such men rarely are financially abusive in isolation, he certainly sees "his money" as his and his alone.

I think you should seek legal advice because after all knowledge is power and you seem to be coming from a position of no knowledge re your comment of, "Now if we split up, I have no security, I don't earn enough money and will struggle to get a mortgage". This is mere supposition on your part.

I thought I recognised your username and you have indeed posted about him quite recently as well. He does not respect you and only loves his own self. He is also the root cause of your low self worth and esteem.

Is this really what you want to teach your child about relationships?. Its no legacy to leave that young person.

And what Madinche1sea said also.

So it was your choice to work less and swap job roles, you can't surely blame him for that? You could return back to full time at any time you want.

Lots of couples both work full, nobody needs to work part time simpl y as they have children. However you spend your four/five days off they are still days off. It's not childcare, it's just being a parent.

I don't see any financial abuse if he's shouldering all the bills either.

SheldonCRules - I don't have 4/5 days off! Read my posts, I work 2 full days and usually 3 school hour days. And yes this new career was my choice after I was made redundant but it was done with his blessing and encouragement.

"I don't see any financial abuse if he's shouldering all the bills either".

Its far more subtle than just that; he sees the bills as his responsibility. The rest is down to her and her alone. She is certainly not happy and rightly so about the ways in which their finances are dealt with; he holds all the cards here.

This comment from her is also very telling re what she would like:-
"A joint account where both pay in our salaries each month & then from that account all bills are paid, food bought, some into savings, childcare paid for etc. Then remainder split so that we both have equal personal disposable spending money. Anyway I suggested this last night & it did not go down well at all. Apparently because I have a better work / life balance and because 'I choose' this he does not want to let me have anymore of 'his money'. I'm trying to be fair about this and really try to make this fair for both of us but I'm really struggling with his attitude and even if he did relent and go with my preferred scenario I know that he would just end up resenting me (even more, if that's possible), and we'd spend 2017 arguing about money which I just don't want to do...."

Many such controlling men do actively try and sabotage their spouse's future plans to return to work also.

I am not demanding he hands over 50% of his disposable income....A 50/50 split is my preferred scenario but if he doesn't feel comfortable doing that then I hope we could talk and come up with something we are both happy with. The current set up feels unfair as he has circa £1k disposable income and I have none and im constantly made to feel guilty for not contributing more...

the issue is that your career supports his. he doesn't have to take time off if his child is sick, he doesn't have to pay wrap around care, holiday clubs, etc. he doesn't have to do housework, or pay someone to do it for him. he cannot have his cake and eat it i'm afraid. he cannot confine you to a less financially beneficial career that allows the flexibility that's needed with children, and expect to reap all the financial benefits of that.
legally his money is his, but morally it's incredibly unkind to behave this way to the woman you love.
i gave up everything to raise our children and support my husbands business, which is very long hours so not overly compatible with normal childcare, and i would not be with him if he did not value my contribution to the house hold. i save us £1200pcm in nursery fees alone, never mind wrap around and summer clubs, cleaner etc that we'd need if i work similar hours to him!

It always saddens me when I read about these situations. My husband earned about 3 times what I did. Our earnings went into our own account and we each moved money into the joint account to pay household bills. We each had our own direct debits for our professional insurances and subscriptions but if the joint account was running low one of us would move money into it. We used to pinch cash out of each other's wallets too. It was a standing joke that there was a £20 that used to go between us.

We were both independent and yet we were a team with ultimate trust in each other. I eVen had POA over his financial affairs when he was ill in the last few years of his life and moved money around all over the place.
I was under the impression that what we did was normal. My parents were the same and my mum didn't work.
I had thought that marriage was team work.
OP I hope you can sort this out.

It saddens me too Musicaltheatremum, that's how I thought my marriage would be but a lot of things haven't turned out the way I'd hoped

He obviously feels he is doing more than his share though and is also unhappy with the balance.

From your point of view, you want him to pay for more than he already does, have the luxury of working in a job you want that pays little and leaves plenty of down time. From his, he's paying for virtually everything, has little spare time and is obviously resentful you won't share the burden.

If it all goes wrong, you don't have the means to support yourself if your wages only cover tennis lessons and the two after school club sessions a week. That should worry you greatly when you know he is unhappy too.

Sheldon -do you have children of your own?

SheldonCRules - I don't want him to 'pay for more' between the 2 of us all the bills and expenses are met. I would like a more even distribution of the money left over. And i don't have more 'down time', yes my husband works long hours but I do 99% of the early mornings all the bedtimes and looking after a 5 year old and doing housework isn't 'downtime'.

He obviously feels he is doing more than his share though and is also unhappy with the balance

It would be interesting to see if for all his unhappiness, he'd actually cut back his work hours to step up to do more than half of the burden of household and parenting to allow the OP to have her turn to develop her career? Her 'downtime' is spent doing his share so hardly what you'd call downtime.

I remember my DH telling me he worked the long hours for us, trying to justify the ridiculous hours and single minded focus on the job he loves with no need to give any thought to whether it fitted in with being a husband and father.

I asked if he'd have worked less hours and been less career driven if he didn't have DD and I. That stopped him in his tracks, of course he wouldn't have! He got to continue to concentrate on his career as if he wasn't a parent and yet it was 'lucky me' to be a SAHM and be a kept woman making all the sacrifices for him to do so!

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Looking after a child is what happens when you become a parent, it's not hard nor is it childcare. Likewise housework is something every household has. He can hardly do a 50/50 share of that if he's not home as he's having to work to cover the bills.

You are both unhappy with the current arrangement, you want your way and aren't obviously willing to compromise or listen to him. Marriage is about sharing, not one person providing everything.

Switch roles if you feel he has the better deal.

If my DH said he was doing childcare for his own children he'd soon be put straight. Likewise if he said I needed him to hold down a job, I'm an adult not a child needing someone else to be able to work.

Sheldon - yes looking after a child is what you do when you become a parent, but the point is you have to be physically present to do that. Or employ somebody else to be physically present to do it. Beyond that I don't really know what to say.

SheldonCRules - you are clearly not reading my posts

'Looking after a child is what happens when you become a parent, it's not hard nor is it childcare'
It is hard and it is childcare!!

'Looking after a child is what happens when you become a parent, it's not hard nor is it childcare'

It is hard and it is childcare!!

As someone who works three days a week and spends the other four on child/house duty I definitely say it's hard! I work in a very stressful and striking job but sometimes I would rather be there than at home just for a break.

Tetley - I really hope your husband is able to see through his ineptitude and you can move forward as a family. Good luck x