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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help! We found inappropriate text messages on dsd's mobile phone.

102 replies

SheerWill · 31/12/2016 09:47

Please forgive me if you find I'm drip feeding. I haven't slept much having only found out about 8pm last night.

I returned home from visiting friends to find dh very distressed. Yesterday he picked up his daughter from up north and brought her down to us. While he was picking up his mum (who is also staying with us) dsd told them she had a 15 year old boyfriend. Dsd is 12. She is a vulnerable young lady who attends a special school for students with mental health problems and Autistic Spectrum Disorder. She's only been attending school find September having refused school since the end of Y6. We have had concerns about her use of internet/social media for around 2 years. She was hospitalised 2 years ago for self harming and dh exw told him that she'd found evidence of dsd emailing older men and that messages had been inappropriate - of a sexual nature. Dh wanted to report it and do something at the time but exw persuaded him that due to her fragile state of mind they needed to not report it and he was persuaded.

Fast forward to now. Dsd has virtually no policing of her social media/gadgets use when she is at home with exw. On a number of occasions since the incident I describe above she has posted videos on YouTube where she talks about things no 12 year old should know. She has now created a Facebook account (separate to the one her mum knows about) that we only just found out about. She has also been texting this 15 year old boyfriend who goes to her school and is also autistic.

Dh asked to see her phone and she point blank refused. We police all the children's internet and gadget use while they are here. He managed to get her phone off her and she had a meltdown. When DH read the messaged they were extremely sexually explicit. No revealing photos have been shared but it has been encouraged. His messaged are more explicit than hers but from what I've read she started it.

DH is absolutely distraught. As soon as I got home and he told me we put his mum in charge of the kids so we could talk privately and we made notes on all the occasions leading up to this incident. We have now contacted the police where she lives as she is already known to social services and CAMHS. We are so frustrated that her mum continues to refuse to police her phone/tablet and internet use. The police are going to get back in touch with us either today or Monday.

We're in a mess and don't know what to do. I would much rather she stay with us until this whole sitation is resolved. DSD will hate it but I feel this has now gone far enough and she needs parents who will not only love her but also give her boundaries and protect her (from herself if nothing else). She has very poor self esteem and body image issues and I'm sure she just likes the attention and the nice comments these men have made but it's horrendous.

Any advice/guidance welcome - please help!

OP posts:
NewNNfor2017 · 01/01/2017 10:11

Quite possibly to stop her turning up on the doorstep and causing a scene, zzz.

I have, on occasion, reported my concerns about my DHs DCs to police/soc Serv without telling either of their parents until it was clear what the course of action was going to be.

zzzzz · 01/01/2017 11:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NewNNfor2017 · 01/01/2017 11:27

Not causing a scene?
Mum screaming abuse at Dad because he's decided to take action that she doesn't agree with is hardly beneficial.

I'm projecting based on my own experience but there are many reasons I can think of why the OPs DH is choosing not to inform his DDs mum until he's had further advice from the professionals. Sadly not all mums put their DCs welfare first, just as some dads don't.

SheerWill · 01/01/2017 13:02

Dsd hasn't been interested in having her devices back at all since having them taken away. She's currently watching cartoons with ds and has helped to bath dd before we put her down for a nap.

Dh and I have kept them all busy or occupied since Friday. We haven't yet discussed the messages with anyone outside use and dh mum who is staying with us at the moment (until we were supposed to take her and dsds home tomorrow). She has made no mention of wanting them back.

Dh want to get back in touch with the police to find out whether they can update us on the situation. Until then we can't decide how to proceed. We want to sit down with dsd and have a chat and explain in a way she'll understand what we have done so far and why. Then we can proceed. Dh and I also plan on collecting together all the sharps in the house and locking them away securely just in case it sends her anxiety over the edge and she gets the urge to self harm.

OP posts:
zzzzz · 01/01/2017 13:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SheerWill · 01/01/2017 13:11

We've been looking into setting up a mediation session for dsd, dh and exw so they can talk in an open and honest environment. Exw is under the impression that as she didn't put dh on the birth certificate (dh was on tour when exw had dsd registered) dh doesn't have parental responsibility but we've been assure by both the police and ss that as he has been making maintenance payments since they split back in 2010 she has accepted him as being the father with parental responsibility equal to hers.

If this ends up going to court (and we have started looking up going down the route of a court order) then at least we have made the effort to mediate beforehand.

Thanks for the advice re. compassionate leave. Dh did get some when dsd was hospitalised so he is going to ask again Tuesday and hope that the army can help us out in some way - they were pretty useless last time.

I am also going to try and contact citizen's advice and the autistic society to get further advice.

OP posts:
CauliflowerSqueeze · 01/01/2017 13:40

I think it's massively important that exw and DH meet separately in advance to ensure they both have perfect clarity and are singing from the same hymn sheet before bringing this vulnerable girl into the equation. The very last thing she needs is to be in a meeting where both parents are tensely sniping at each other.

SheerWill · 01/01/2017 13:40

We have no doubt that exw loves dsd to the ends of the earth and back but she does obviously struggle. Dh has offered to have dsd to come and stay more regularly and we have her for a week/long weekend in the holidays which involves him driving a 400 mile round trip to collect her and take her home, as well as us going up once a month (this isn't easy as I'm only on Stat Mat pay at the moment and I'm the main earner). Dh has also offered to become the resident parent if only temporarily.

During dsd time off school she was home educated by a tutor provided by the local authority. the rest of the time she would stay up till the early hours of the morning online and then sleep in until around 3pm. exw cannot get dsd to wash, shower, bath or brush her teeth. She is able to do these things when she is here and exw has even asked us how we manage to do it. She only washes her hair when exw dyes it bright red, green, orange or blue.

I'm not saying she is uncaring or hysterical, just way out of her depth maybe and unwilling to include dh more in dsd upbringing despite frequent offers. He has never gone down the official route to try and get more access but has always negotiated access through her. Even when she refused to let him see dsd for nearly 2 years.

OP posts:
LIZS · 01/01/2017 13:46

How could your dh have more custody/access if he is so often away? Would it not be you trying to parent two additional children. Are cahms involved with dsd1? If they were married when dsd1 was born does that give him pr?

NewNNfor2017 · 01/01/2017 13:58

dh doesn't have parental responsibility but we've been assure by both the police and ss that as he has been making maintenance payments since they split back in 2010 she has accepted him as being the father with parental responsibility equal to hers.

That may support a case to award him PR if he take it to court, but it catagorically does not give him automatic PR (in England and Wales). He has no legal responsibility for this child at all and no legal rights to influence decisions about her care and welfare.

I had assumed that they were married and PR was not in doubt - this makes the whole mess a LOT more complicated; as she can prevent your DH from having an equal role in his DD's life.

Has your DH had ANY legal advice on this at all? It sounds like someone with professional knowledge needs to step in to prevent this little girl from falling down the cracks due to well meaning parents not really understanding the law.

TheBlessedCheesemaker · 01/01/2017 14:32

If she is able to - for example - wash her hair when at yours but not at her main home, then it is possible that she is adaptable to boundaries and that they are not in place properly at home; it is however certainly also possible that there is a large element of masking going on when she is with you that creates an impression of a much more adaptable child than is actually the case, especially as the contact with you is somewhat limited (a fact, not a criticism). The possibility of a high level of masking would make me pause before assuming that the mum is failing. She may be dealing with an entirely different child than the one you see, and may be dealing with that child quite brilliantly. We are all anonymous posters with no insight of course but I know a child who is quite capable of spending a week with her GPs without a single meltdown (and behaving perfectly); the 'recovery' process after such visits is hellish and lasts way longer than the time away.
I think going in with a no-blame approach (regardless of personal feelings/views) will give you all the very best option of working together to deal with the girl as she is currently. Dealing with the whys and wherefores that led down this path won't really help, will it? I'd suggest that it is only if the agreed plan then fails that a less mutually supportive approach might be better.

MotherTeresasCat · 01/01/2017 14:36

OP I can appreciate this is an awful, concerning situation, and I think that it's great that, as a step parent, you clearly care so much for your husbands daughter.

But your posts are filled with barbs at her mother and I find this concerning too. You don't approve of the way she lets her daughter dye her hair clearly, and everything you say points to the fact that you consider her to be slack.

My heart goes out to this girls mother. I cannot imagine what it must be like to be parenting a child so challenging, all on your own. If it was my daughter self harming, attempting suicide, being sexually exploited, then my heart would be breaking. But you don't sad - you just sound angry and down on her mother. If her mother is struggling this is understandable. What she needs is support.

Do you honestly believe it would be in your dsd's best interests to be separated from the woman who has been her main carer all her life to come and live with you? You have never cared for her full time - only for short periods - and so even though you clearly think you could do a much better job, you cannot know this for sure. You've never tried. A court will only change the status quo for a child so radically if the child is considered to be at risk of immediate harm by staying with the resident parent. You might think there's a case to be presented for this but I would imagine it to be far more likely the courts would rather your dsd avoid disruption (especially considering her issues) and her mother be given more support with monitoring her online behaviour. Her mother does not physically or sexually abuse her? I assume she is fed, clothed, kept warm, shown love and given appropriate affection? If so then her mothers parenting is good enough.

My last point is that is actually very very difficult to monitor entirely a childs online activity. You can keep internet use to family areas for small children, but once they are teenagers it isn't appropriate to be breathing down their necks all the time. You have to give them a certain amount of freedom and responsibility after having discussions with them about safe behaviour. You can check internet history but it can be deleted. You can put parental controls in but they are actually quite easy to get around. And ultimately you have to make decisions about just how invasive and intrusive you are prepared to be.

I have three children. When my teenage son was just eleven years old his father and I discovered that he had been accessing online porn, sharing pictures with his friends and having discussions about them that I found distasteful, and that he had sent a picture of his genitals to someone as part of an online discussion. This person was pretending to be a girl of a similar age but who knows. His father and I live apart and were both horrified. It turned out he had been staying up late into the night on his ipod touch doing all this stuff. I just had no clue. It had never even occurred to me that at his age any of this stuff might be an issue. I thought he was going to bed and going straight to sleep Sad

It was a wake up call. We called the police and took advice. We confiscated his ipod touch and talked to him a great deal about porn and about internet safety. I felt absolutely dreadful. I knew it was my bad - I should have monitored his internet usage more closely, I should have checked he was asleep after I tucked him in.... I went through all the self flagellation.

You know what his father didn't do? He didn't call me a shit parent. He didn't get angry with me. He didn't try to imply in any way that it was all my fault. He saw how devastated I was and how guilty I felt and he offered support and comfort. We discussed appropriate boundaries together. He knew I was a loving mother, doing her best, who had dropped a ball, and decided that it was best for our son for us to be presenting a united front. He had my back.

You seem to lack empathy for the mother, is all I'm saying. Your dsd needs all the adults in her life to be singing from the same hymn sheet if at all possible. Not fighting each other.

Ellisandra · 01/01/2017 15:03

So, her father has offered to have her live with him temporarily.

Yet at the crisis point that involves calling the police and 'disgusting' sexual messages to and from a 12 year old... he can't take any time off work.

Slow hand clap super dad.

This sounds like a very challenging situation but I suspect it's as easy to find barbed comments about her father as it is her mother - I just found one pretty easily from your posts.

I suggest you focus on the girl now not the comments about her mother.

It sounds like he hasn't enforced anything on information and contact. You say that there's not much money in the pot for lawyers after issues with your XH?
Well, your husband is in the army but you're the main earner - so that means as a household you have a reasonable income. And you've got enough money to choose to have a baby.

Another easy barbed comment for you: 2 years his 10 year old (10!) was suicidal and being abused by grown men sending her sexual messages. Did he not think it might be a good idea to save his time, money and emotional resources for his very troubled child, not just to have a baby with you?

You see, very easy to find things to criticise in his decisions too.

SheerWill · 01/01/2017 15:15

The police and ss have confirmed to dh that he does have parental responsibility as he pays maintenance. Exw and he married when dsd turned 1 and they divorced just before we met.

I'm not intentionally trying to be barbed, but I do have views that are obviously different to exw. She isn't on her own parenting dsd. She has been with her partner before I even met dh and they have a son the same age as our ds. So I assume he supports her in her parenting as he is. I do consider them to be slack regarding their parenting of dsd but that is my opinion based on what I have seen, heard and been told by dh and his parents.

I am angry and frustrated, I agree with that. This has been on the cards for ages and despite all our efforts to try and get videos taken down from YouTube and her Facebook managed appropriately we seem to just be met with stonewalled silence from exw. I don't want to cause trauma to dsd but the situation as it is at the moment isn't working and it hasn't worked for a long time. We have tried supporting exw but it would be completely irresponsible for us to just let the situation continue any further now that this new evidence has come to light.

I agree parenting dsd is challenging at times. It's not all roses when she's here, but there are clear boundaries and expectations for all the children and all of them can be challenging at times.

Exw doesn't physically abuse her, but she is not preventing her from accessing dangerous content of a sexual nature. For dsd to know what she knows she must have seen and been exposed to content very inappropriate for a 12 years old (and below). It puts dsd in a very vulnerable situation where she's seeking attention from those who would seek to manipulate, groom and abuse her. This isn't good enough.

This is not the first, second or even third time.

OP posts:
SheerWill · 01/01/2017 15:23

Ellisandra you would have made some very valid points, however it's clear you have not read the entire thread so have got the wrong end of the stick on a number of points.

None of us are perfect but we do the best we can for all our children. I am only able to afford my maternity leave because my nan left me some money after we lost her last year.

I came on here to get help and alternative viewpoints are welcome, but at least read the posts first. I don't have time to explain points already made.

We have spent too much time in doors today. DD needs a feed and then we're going to take the dog out for some fresh air.

I think I will copy people's responses and save them so I can reflect on everyone's very helpful advice before we move forward, but I don't think I can give much more time over to responding now.

I would like to thank everyone for their comments whether for or against, I like to get a wide range of viewpoints to help me clarify my own. I am not afraid of being wrong and would much rather be proved so before we take any action in this case.

OP posts:
Ellisandra · 01/01/2017 15:37

I did RTFT.
I missed the bit about your grandmother's inheritance.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Don't see why you couldn't cut short your maternity leave and use the money saved to fund the necessary legal action to have his ex keep him advised of matters.

And I still think it wasn't the best time for him to choose to divert his time and emotional resources if his older daughter was suicidal and living many miles away. I personally wouldn't choose to split my time between a new baby and an older child in crisis.

Did you also explain why your husband can't take an emergency leave of absence? Because I missed that too, despite reading the whole thread Hmm

You clearly want to do something for this girl.

My point is that you are very scathing of her mother, but from that YOU describe, her father isn't winning any awards either.

The reality is probably that they are both loving imperfect parents (aren't we all?). The point is: if you think my comments about him are undeserved, I'm trying to make you see that so might yours be, about her mother.

Who is dealing with this girl day in day out a fuck of a lot more than her father is.

LIZS · 01/01/2017 15:37

But it seems clear neither you or her father have been successful in stopping her accessing dubious material either. Taking the kit away is one thing but she may become more devious with whatever this replaced or she has access to. You may not be seeking to make barbed comments about his ex or her parenting but that is what underlies the tone of your posts. This child , like most, needs consistency in her life, her father is unable to offer that until such a time as he changes career and/or moves closer, by which time it will be too late to influence her behaviour. Will he choose to put her first now?

zzzzz · 01/01/2017 16:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MotherTeresasCat · 01/01/2017 16:19

So what do you think her mother should do OP? Because the only way you can guarantee complete control over a child's internet use is to sit with them at all times while they use it or not allow access at all.

Your dsd's use of the internet is just one part of a much bigger, distressing picture I think. Poor girl, her poor mum and dad, and poor you too. I can see it must be very hard for everybody.

But are you sure you aren't being pushed away by the mother because she suspects (quite correctly) that you look down on her and judge her. What has your dh done to genuinely try to build bridges? I really do feel that's the answer here. Litigation will be terribly distressing for everyone and your dsd will suffer further. I guess it's up to you and your dh to decide if that's really warranted .

NewNNfor2017 · 01/01/2017 16:21

The police and ss have confirmed to dh that he does have parental responsibility as he pays maintenance

The police and social services are NOT family lawyers and cannot advice you on PR. If they have done so, they have overstepped their authority.

If what You have said on this thread is true then your DH DOES NOT have legal PR.

youarenotkiddingme · 01/01/2017 16:30

If your DH is in the forces can he secure forces SW?

He also needs to do something about getting PR. For his as well as DD benefit.

It's sooooo important you tell DSD mum about the online chat and messages. Tell her you've spoken to police and SS. She may be under the i rosin she has protected DD from these things. She may have no idea. Believe me my Ds has got round the boundaries I've put in place for him. He also accepts when I take the devices away. He doesn't understand why what he's done is wrong. If somebody else found out Ds had been boing inappropriate stuff online and told police and SS and not me I'd feel like more a failure that people felt o was such a terrible parent I'd allowed it than I would for allowing it to happen iyswim?

Raising a child with send is bloody hard work. Seriously, it's very different 24/7 365 days a year than once a month.

TheBogQueen · 01/01/2017 16:41

Op I don't think this thread is going to help you very much in such a complex and sensitive case.

Many people on mumsnet just want to score points and pull you apart when you need support.

I would focus on real life support with people who know what they are talking about and can offer rl expert help.

I hope your step daughter gets the help she needs. Well done for contacting the police, there may well be other online activity you are not yet aware of.

Elendon · 01/01/2017 16:57

Im a SEN teacher at a mainstream secondary school so work with teenagers every day.

I call bullshit on this. If you were teaching my son, I would be having words with the head of year, along the lines of never having my vulnerable sen teenage child in your care. Having read the thread, you are giving me serious concerns. It's people like you who make my life as a parent to a vulnerable teenager within secondary school setting much harder.

Graphista · 01/01/2017 17:28

You're STILL not accepting that

You are NOT this child's parent, a step parent is a social title not a legal one.

If indeed you were told that re PR you were ill advised. He may have PR as a result of their marrying after dsd was born but it's not automatic and has nothing to do with maintenance.

You're STILL far too focused on the 'failings' of the mother, I don't have a great deal of experience of children with asn, but I do with nt children and I suspect (someone with more knowledge can correct me if wrong) and I'm extremely familiar with a common issue of children behaving better/more compliant with carers they spend less time with than their primary carers. Which is usually mum.

Eg 'well she eats her greens when she's with me' doesn't mean that person is better at parenting but that children will push someone they're more comfortable with boundary wise than they will someone they know less well. Ask anyone that's worked in childcare! Or any mum frustrated by a wilful child who won't eat greens/go to bed without a fight/won't wear a coat on a freezing day when told to by mum BUT someone else says it and they're all accommodating!

I'd caution you to take what your husband and his family say of his ex wife too, they're hardly impartial and that will also have influenced what you've 'seen and heard' too.

As a pp said and from what little I know from mn and friends with children with additional needs its bloody hard to get in place what she did for her daughter.

You (meaning you and your husband) have been happy to take a relatively back seat for the past 2 years and let his exw do the majority of the hard work in parenting your dsd with all the challenges mentioned.

Your husband could also have (and still could) applied for a posting nearer to his child on compassionate grounds. There's no guarantee but it could have resulted in being nearer to her and is still something he could look into especially with the current issues.

You say the army haven't been helpful but honestly it doesn't sound like he's looked much into this kind of thing much. Have you contacted ssafa? They have a social work branch and are also a charity so can provide both emotional and practical support. There's also various welfare offices that can provide information and support.
While you don't have to answer or defend here, you would be doing a disservice to your dsd if you don't at least privately (between you and your husband) consider you need to set aside your animosity toward towards the exw to do what's right for dsd.

Cary2012 · 01/01/2017 17:41

I'm an Assistant Senco at a huge high school. I think the girl's mum is getting an unfair pasting by the OP; regardless of her faults, this vulnerable girl's mum has achieved a lot for her DD. I agree with zzzzz, she's already proved her worth by securing her SEND provision, which isn't easy.

And as a mum, I would go utterly ballistic to be kept in the dark like this, especially if my ex's partner was divulging information about my DD on MN. I know you want opinions OP, and feel for you, but to keep this girl's mum out of the loop, whilst you and her dad 'decide what to do' is deplorable.

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