One of us is spectacularly wrong.

[user1471456416]

I'm married to a lovely man, he is kind,caring and brilliant dad to our children.
However, he has this horrible habit of not listening to or acknowledging my opinions or thoughts on things. Sometimes trivial, sometimes bigger choices that he just gets on with.
Over many years of marriage this is the only
thing we ever argue about because it makes me feel so inadequate and simply ignored as though my opinion just isn't important enough to be considered.
For example, bigger things such as moving house he will not even entertain because he simply doesn't want to move. I,on the other hand would at least hear him out and at least think about it.
He doesn't even let me finish my sentence before he says no to anything he doesn't agree with.This sends me crazy and I've told him many many times it makes me feel worthless and ignored.
So, the problem. We have a large family and are fairly broke. Everyone's fed and bills paid but little left for luxuries.
I specifically said let's not get expensive gifts for each other for Christmas because we're trying to save for a caravan holiday in the summer. Please could we put any money we had away for the holiday.
I was very clear about this, explaining how we could then have a better holiday for us all.
Despite this, I got a bottle of expensive perfume, which he's bought me several time previously and each time I've thanked him and gently said but please don't buy it for me again and he's gone and spent several hundred pound on a necklace.
I'm so upset! Mostly because he has completely ingnored my wishes again, despite me telling how sad it makes me feel to be ignored. Also he's now really cross and hurt because he keeps saying how he was just trying to do something nice for me.
Something nice would be putting that money in the holiday pot as I asked.
Now I've got perfume I don't like and a necklace I can't return.
But mostly I'm so upset he's just done what he wants again and now I look spectacularly ungrateful.
I can't find the words to express how insignificant I feel when he does this. I know he doesn't do it on purpose but now we've fallen out and I feel crap about myself.

Ok so in your examples when the op discusses with him about xmas presents what stopped him saying 'I don't want to put money in the holiday fund. I want to treat you and I'm going to do some overtime to ensure the holiday isn't compromised'?

He had ample opportunity to communicate with her his feelings. He either didn't or did take part in that discussion but then decided to ignore it.

You assumed the op would be unhappy if he had worked extra hours to spend money on himself. Why? This was never discussed and is completely off topic but I'm sure you could understand that if the op was doing extra childcare for him to do overtime do he could treat himself when things are tight she might be aggrieved for good reason.

The kitchen, you assume he was deliberately excluded from any decisions to do with the kitchen, why? Because she is a woman and women all do kitchens and exclude men from them?! He very clearly decided to go for a different kitchen rather than save the difference without any input from the op so on the one hand we have your assumption that the op had deprived him of any input (even though he was the one ordering it) and you ignore that he made a unilateral decision about joint money.

The dog - it is not excusable to just buy a puppy/dog for someone else ever without their joint input. It is an animal with feelings. The person caring for the dog should have all the input into the decisions re buying it so that there is a better chance it will be well cared for.

The lamb/steak is one of those things that is a straw that broke the camel's back. If you want to be helpful to the cook you buy what they ask for or you discuss buying something different or you are likely to leave the cook with the wrong ingredients/in trouble with timings/planning. It's just common courtesy.

The ice cream - again a straw but as with the lamb you are just reaching for assumptions re his motives that are not based on anything the op has said and ignore the fact the lamb and the ice cream are two further examples of him choosing to ignore what the op had asked for and get her something he thinks is better.

Why can't she decide that she doesn't want a present? Why exactly is that unreasonable? Would you buy presents for people when they had said they didn't want them? When they were annoyed at you for not listening to them when they expressed what they want? Giving someone a present they don't want that they have said they don't want is not kind it is controlling!

Working overtime that the op has to cover for childcare to buy said present doesn't make it kinder either!

Yes, she said she wanted the money put in the pot instead of being given expensive presents. And he chose to ignore her stated wishes.

The OP says that this " horrible habit of not listening to or acknowledging (her) opinions or thoughts on things" makes her feel "so inadequate and simply ignored as though (her) opinion just isn't important enough to be considered". His refusal to listen to her " sends (her) crazy and (she's) told him many many times it makes (her) feel worthless and ignored."

His choice to give her expensive presents, despite being asked specifically not to do that, makes her feel "upset" and "insignificant". His response is to be "cross and hurt" because she isn't grateful for having been given what she explicitly said she did not want. And now she feels "crap" about herself.

Her husband could have listened to her, bought her a small and thoughtful gift which she would have enjoyed and put the hundreds of pounds he spend on the unwanted gifts towards a holiday for the whole family as his wife suggested. Everyone could have been happy. But instead, he chose to ignore his wife and then expected her to be pleased about being treated as a non-person. Because in my experience that's how it feels to be ignored like this and have your opinions, thoughts and feelings ignored and minimised.

Offred, I didn't assume that she would be unhappy if he had bought stuff for himself,l I questioned it and maybe the OP will answer that later on.

Like all the other examples given i'm questioned them and tried to see them from the other side.

user1481840227

You've referred several times now to the idea that he is doing his best to please an unreasonable woman and just getting it wrong all the time.

Really?

Do you really think that?

I know a few women who seem men as rather hapless fools and spend a lot of time rolling their eyes at them. Bless 'em, they're trying...

Are you one of those? Do you think that men probably aren't all that good at seeing mess too? Or that the washing machine is a little bit beyond them with all its settings and its programmes..?

Yes it's an idea and it's based on what the OP has said.
Yes I REALLY think that it's a possibility believe it or not.

Think it's shocking how so many on here just have him painted as an abuser based on what was said! I am trying to look at the other side.

Have you been married to/involved with a person like this, user1481840227 ?

So it all has to be on your terms but when he makes a decision he's selfish?

Upto him what he spent his overtime on, why do you get to say what it's spent on but not him? Does he tell you how to spend your salary?

No but i've been involved with abusive men, please note I am not saying that because I was with abusive men that that means I will look at lesser forms of 'abuse' and dismiss them. That is simply not the case.

I have often noticed patterns and subtle behaviour in friends relationships for example that may be small but affect them deeply.

I am just saying that in this case I think we would really need to hear the other side before any conclusions could be made.

Upto him what he spent his overtime on, why do you get to say what it's spent on but not him?

What does it say about a man when he sends his money on something for his DW that she specifically asked him not to?

By all means, blow his overtime on vintage whisky, hiring a fast car, or 24 hour box set marathons, but really? You think it's OK for him to disregard the OP's request and go ahead and spend it on something for her when she has asked him not to?

If they weren't in a relationship, that would be classed as harassment - one of the cases I knew of involved a man who had a bouquet of flowers delivered to his sister every week. They were estranged and she didn't welcome them. Despite many men (and some women), saying that she should be grateful, it was taken seriously by the police and action was taken against him.

No-one should be forced to accept unwelcome gifts - not even from well meaning spouses.

I think many things people in relationships do or say to each other could be considered crimes if they weren't in relationships!!!!!!

I think many things people in relationships do or say to each other could be considered crimes if they weren't in relationships!!!!!!

Really? Like what?

My DH doesn't touch me without consent, doesn't verbally abuse me, doesn't take my belongings without asking..... what type of behaviour do some people put up with?

Why should she answer a question that has literally nothing at all to do with the thread? You are trying to trap her into confirming she is a sexist stereotype of a woman who is never satisfied.

She is complaining that she isn't listened to or respected by her husband and you have ignored the examples of him doing that and projected a weird made up situation based on sexist stereotypes about women that means the op has caused this.

And I've never 'painted him as an abuser'. I simply said this is controlling behaviour.

Other people suggested it could be the tip of the iceberg and described their abusive partners who also behaved that way.

I think many things people in relationships do or say to each other could be considered crimes if they weren't in relationships!!!!!!

Um... nope... at least not without being fully aware that that was the case!

Ah look that was just a flippant comment because I thought the argument was seriously stupid, you only have to look at this forum to see what some people do put up with!

Offred, because I think it's relevant whether she would mind him spending money on himself!! It does have something to do with it!
Never said YOU painted him as an abuser!

Why do you think it is relevant?

If she did have a problem with him working overtime to buy things for himself meaning she had extra childcare burden at Christmas time and when they are struggling financially as a family why would that have anything to do with her being unreasonable and controlling as you suggest she is?

Why would it mean she is being unreasonable to complain about him buying her stuff expensive gifts that she doesn't want and specifically told him she didn't want prior to him buying them?

You are only asking her that question in the hopes that she will say 'yes I would be annoyed' and then you can smugly respond 'see you are one of those controlling unreasonable wives and he can't do anything right'.

Quite simply though, whether he took it upon himself to work overtime to buy himself something or to buy the op something she clearly stated she didn't want and why in a discussion with him specifically set around avoiding this very situation and during which he could have expressed his feelings, that's not good behaviour on his part in either case.

It is not good behaviour because it is selfish unilateral decision making which shows contempt rather than respect for the op.

look that was just a flippant comment because I thought the argument was seriously stupid

You thought it was seriously stupid that the behaviour you are encouraging the OP to accept from her DH with is considered a criminal offence?

And it's nothing to do with this op being female and her partner being male before you go down that road...

There was a thread recently where a female OP had told her male partner not to get her anything for her birthday, had said she wanted to have dinner and was then terribly aggrieved that he had just taken her for dinner and then accepted her offer to pay half the bill (offered because she thought he would have got a gift) and my feelings on it were exactly the same.

It is not respectful to ignore what your partner says to you. It is respectful to listen and act accordingly. You are an absolute mug if you buy into this sexist bullshit about all women wanting presents and not saying what they mean.

(And in the other op's case for expecting men to read minds/ignore what you have clearly communicated to them)

Offred, I have explained exactly why I questioned the things I have questioned.
I'm not wasting any more time and energy responding to you just because you can't accept that I may look at things different and think this might not be as clear cut as others seem to think it is!

You have not explained why you think that question is relevant.

Your suggestions re an 'alternative perspective' are not beyond criticism/analysis just like anything anyone posts.

You haven't provided much of a response to any criticism/analysis other than 'it's what I think' so meh.

Plus from the tone of your posts you seem to be suggesting that the op is unreasonable because she is a woman and women are unreasonable.

Hard to judge a relationship from a small number of words, especially as their appear to be contradictions. With the three relatively trivial examples you site it appears you made a unilateral decision and are upset when for various reasons the OH has done something different if reasonable. Even with the present example you aren't just refusing to accept the gift you are trying to control how he spends his overtime money.
In summary in these examples you sound like a little bit of a control freak although you've not actually done anything wrong.
But in the other more meaningfull example (house) he doesn't sound very nice at all. Not for disagreeing with you (two individuals will disagree on a particular subject from time to time, that doesn't mean they are "controlling" or "abusive") but refusing to have a discussion isn't very nice at all. In that example he seems to be trying to control the outcome by lack of action. In all the examples control and lack of communication seem to be an issue for you both, from what I can interpret from your OP anyway!