I don't know how to (or if I can) let this go. Any ideas?

[FrazzleRock]

I have posted a lot about my issues with our missed miscarriage and DP's family.

For background info:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2748670-Im-broken-and-I-have-taken-the-family-with-me?pg=7

This issue is regarding a group family chat on FB messenger.
The conversation started by DP's step mum along the lines of looking forward to Christmas and that it will be such a happy time etc..
Then her own son (DP's step brother) then said:
"well for some of us 2016 has been a bit of a cunt"
(SB has had health issues)
I responded and said:
"I'm with step brother on this, I for one am looking forward to New Year as I want to say goodbye to 2016"
Step mum then said something like:
"yes step brother and Frazzle and her DP have had a hard year but let's not lose sight of the fact we haven't all had a bad year"
I then apologised, saying I was just overtired then carried on the conversation, and that's when the talk of her daughter's (DP's step sister) pregnancy started, which I fully participated in.
I wanted to show that I was interested and trying to overcome my own grief.
I joined in with the discussion around guessing when their baby will arrive and I even suggested we all take a stab at guessing the sex and the weight.
DP's Step Mum said ''Niece will be gutted if she has another boy cousin" I responded with this:
"Awww DD (who we lost) is niece's girl cousin and anyway, the baby could be a girl so niece will have two girl cousins "

(FWIW, I totally understand that I should probably have said 'was', not 'is' but have trouble with the 'was' as DD is still our daughter no matter what)

However, DP's dad then responded with:

"No Frazzle, DD is not niece's little girl cousin. There is no DD, I am sorry"

This comment was the final straw for me and I suffered a huge panic attack about 5 minutes later, which I have never experienced before so was pretty scary .

Since then, I just cannot get my head around it or get the comment out of my head. DP and I are both furious, though DP has now become 'pally' again with his dad as he doesn't want to be angry with him (lots of clashes in the past between DP and his dad and he isn't getting any younger, yadda yadda.... so fair enough)

I just cannot undertand why someone would be so insensitive, especially when I am clearly trying very hard to participate in their joy of the new baby, when all I feel is pain and (I am ashamed to admit on here) downright raw jealousy.
Why is it ok to get super excited about the new baby but our DD doesn't exist? I don't know how to move forward. I know that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I just cannot seem to grasp why someone (DD's own grandfather) would be so brutal. I can't speak to him, I want nothing to do with him right now. All I can feel is rage towards him and feel so hurt that DD's own grandfather thinks she was nothing, but the new baby is to be celebrated.
I keep feeling worried for the step sister and her husband in case they lose their baby, for obvious reasons, but also because the family support is so shit and their baby's existence will be dropped so easily, just like ours was

I know that I need to let this go because it is eating me up. It is causing a huge rift between DP and me. We had a terrible time after this comment was made, talk of breaking up etc . The past few days have been much better after a chat but there is this underlying frustration I have regarding his dad.
I could never forgive him for a comment like that, not that he would ever apologise. He told DP that he would say it again if he had to.

Am I maybe being over sensitive because of my grief?
Friends' reactions to the message tells me I am not, but maybe they are being biased and angry on my behalf. I don't know. I showed my mum and she was furious. But maybe I need to get a grip and just look at it as his loss for not experiencing the presence and love we did for our DD.

Its just all so hard . I want our DD to be remembered and loved. I don't want to be shot down for talking about her, especially when I have done it in such a happy way.

Just before this disappears, from the perspective of a family member, my step mother had a termination for medical reasons at 5 months about 12 years ago.

We were hugely sympathetic about this. We acknowledged 'her baby' and supported her at this time.

But I can honestly say that it has never once occurred to me to feel like I lost a sibling. It hadn't occurred to me that she might have felt this way until I read this thread.

It was also brought up whilst I was pregnant two years later and my dad said he had to congratulate me in private, but was actually quite rude to me in front of her to spare her feelings. My daughter is now 10 and actually, I still find it hard to think that my daughter/pregnancy wasn't regarded as highly as the one she lost.

These are difficult situations, with complex emotions, for all concerned, for different reasons and at different times. No two people experience something like this in a similar way.

I also don't feel it's helpful to you to feel that people are being unsupportive or cruel, or that this has turned into AIBU. People are trying to offer you an alternative perspective that might help you understand your family's reaction. It's not usual to have a CPN following a miscarriage, so I do think your reaction has been strong and is more complicated than just the feelings around this loss.

She should be able to mention her pregnancy without being reminded that you lost one. And your mc at 4 weeks does not equate to the niece having a cousin. It just doesn't.

I also don't think people have mentioned their own losses to minimise yours, they have done it to show that their comments come from a place of similar experience and not ignorance.

I hope you find a way through this.

This thread should really be delted by now. I will chase the MN crew!

But I just wanted to say

Dear OP you do what you need to do & agree that the miscarriage forum is better for you & your situation. Also feel that some people are minimising what you have been through by then adding 'well I had one too'. All the more reason to show empathy & understanding especially as the op has had 2 losses quite close together!

Exactly peanut Thank you.

MrsFozziwig Thank you for you input, however, the baby I lost that I see as my daughter is the first one we lost in February to a missed miscarriage. This one was actually at nine weeks. Obviously the four week little one we lost in May was fucking hideous but it was so early on we hadn't had chance to get our head around it.

We made a lot of changes to our lives when we found out we were expecting our child. We sold our flats and had put an offer on a house in order to be able to fit us all in comfortably. We were going to have a baby, we had imagined and planned our future with our little one in it. We had even started buying stuff and making lists. We had already chosen the names pretty much.

My pain should not be belittled. All I was asking was what to do about that insensitive comment. I never imagined this would get so brutal. My feelinggs are valid. My baby was real and had grown little fingers and toes. I was a week away from finding out her true sex (through a blood test to check for chromosome issues - obviously this was our main concern and not the sex at that point)
There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanted to keep her memory alive. Anyone in the 'babyloss community' will tell you that.
In fact, one of my favourite quotes is from the Velveteen Rabbit:
"Once you become real, you cannot become unreal, it lasts for always"

My DP even inscribed that onto a stone in our garden in memory of her.

Like I said before, I will stick to the miscarriage boards in future.

I hope this goes soon because it is faaaaaar from helpful.

But thank you to those who have been lovely and understanding xx

MNHQ don't delete posts on request, OP, so this may well stay.

I don't think anyone is belittling your pain. Some are pointing out that your FIL was not being deliberately cruel, just factual as he saw it. It could be that the rest of the family are uncomfortable with speaking about your MMC as a real baby. That doesn't mean you shouldn't view her as real.

I had a late miscarriage but my sons know nothing about it. To me it wasn't a baby yet. I grieved for the loss but just with DH. We each deal with our grief in our own way.

I agree no one is being cruel or trying to minmise it by saying that they understand because they have been through similar I think it says a lot about your state of mind that you see it that way.

I also think that you are in danger of eventually alienating you DP's family by continually mentioning the miscarriage in relation to SIL's pregnancy.

OP, I can see that you are grieving profoundly and I am sorry for your losses.

I think the advice being given here is advice aimed at helping you. No-one is telling you to get over it. You - of course - need to grieve in your own way and your own time and it is good you have support.

That said, I think, for your own protection, it's probably best that you stop throwing yourself onto barbed wire, emotionally speaking. Perhaps you do need to take a break from family conversations about your SIL's pregnancy - no-one could blame you for doing so. I doubt the massive effort you are putting into being "happy" and "normal" in them is helping anyone. Secondly, I think you will have to readjust your expectations on what you can expect other people to feel and say about your loss. Other people are just not going to be able to view a pregnancy that didn't make it to 12 weeks as a granddaughter or a cousin, and as long as you demand that of them, you will alienate them and hurt yourself over and over.

I would suggest that you discuss with your CPN or counsellor how to deal best with your desire to have your losses acknowledged, and simultaneously take a lengthy break from any non-necessary communication with your husband's family. I have to wonder what was already going on in your life for you to attach so intensely to an early pregnancy and invest so much in it emotionally, when with the best will in the world most of us recognise that there are no guarantees at that stage.

OP everyone has been kind to you on this thread. I'm sorry that in your grief you cannot see that just now. Several people have shown how they have learnt to live with their grief - you will get to that point at some time. We all do but it can't be predicted how long that will take. I hope you will get some more help with that. You do have good things in your life - your children & your DP for starters - some day you will begin to feel a bit better.

Frazzle I can almost hear your pain I feel so sorry for you. When my brother died any casual mention of brothers or death was like a slap and I felt so hurt by the 'insensitive people' (they were just normal comments) who dared mention those words.
You are still suffering greatly and things will hurt, but others move on. You said yourself I do understand that some people do not see our DD in the same was we do and I think this is what I need to try to understand. Once I can get my head around that fact, I can probably allow myself to let his comment go.
This is the crux of it. The fact many posters are telling you the same is evidence really that most people, including those who have been through it, don't feel the same as you. If you keep pushing the idea of your miscarriage as a dd you will inevitably get told it's not true so for your peace of mind keep that to like minded people.

sarahnova69 Your post is helpful. You have been tactful and supportive and it makes sense. This is the kind of response that helps.

Regarding your question about me attaching myself to my baby and investing so much into our child, I would think stems from many things:

Firstly, a ten year shit relationship with my DC's dad.

Secondly, discovering I have PCOS and being told years ago that I might never have children of my own followed by years of TTC my living DC.
When DP (current) and I found out we were expecting our first child I was shocked considering the pain, effort, and medical involvement it took to TTC my DC.

Thirdly, when we lost our first child, then lost the second one fairly soon after, DP said no more. I think PP were right to say the thought of not trying again has had a huge effect on me. I feel totally bereft and empty. I am trying to work out ways to overcome the feeling and that is why I am getting CBT. I actively sought this help myself, I do not think I am ill. Just need a bit of help with my want for another child. As professionals keep telling me, I am not ill. I am grieving.

What has upset me so much about the responses on here is the 'hearsay' and assumptions being made. For instance the fact I am pining after a baby of four weeks gestation, when in fact ultimately I am grieving my two babies that I lost in quick succession. Two babies that were concieved miraculously after years of fertility issues.

The hearsay that I have been unhappy around the pregnant step sister when in fact it has been the opposite. I have welcomed it with open arms (when inside I am in bits) Who was it that said '2016 has been a cunt'? Not me, I just agreed with it. In fact I immediately apologised to step MIL for agreeing. Step brother didn't (again, not my problem or relative to this).

People assuming I am ill and should not be grieving in the way I am is utter rubbish. I can grieve how I like and if I want to talk about my child in a happy way, then I should be able to. Just as much as the family are talking about the unborn baby. They are both real and both deserve acknowledging, in a happy way. I am not bringing anyone down or raining on anyone's parade. I simply mentioned my child in a positive way as part of conversation and I should not be shot down for that.

I am so tired of this now to be honest. As I say, it was a bad idea to look for support and positive ways to deal with this shit comment from DP's dad, on MN relationships board.

I will stick to the miscarriage boards, because I've had nothing but support and solidarity from them. I just stupidly assumed that this should go in Relationships.

I am going to hide this now as, as PP has mentioned, this thread won't be deleted. Despite it being unhealthy for me.

I need to put your comments behind me and enjoy my day.

What I have got from this is the fact I need to stay away from DP's family for a bit and look after myself.
Again, thank you for the kind support and solidarity from some of you.

I'm sorry for your losses, and understand the desire for your lost fetus to be remembered, however surely you can appreciate that a discussion celebrating the upcoming birth of SILs baby is not not not the right time to bring up your MC! Doing so is very insensitive, which ironically is what you appear to be branding your inlaws as.

Of course you want her to be remembered, but there's a time and place, and that was not it.

Wishing you all the best in your recovery.

I think you said somewhere that you & your DP got together in early 2015 so you are still at the stage of getting to know his family & vice versa. But I think they could probably see that you were really in bits rather than welcoming the SIL pregnancy with open arms as you thought you were managing to portray. Good advice to back off from the fb chats too - people will understand. You don't need to try so hard.
From what you have said it appears your DP has tried to be supportive but is struggling now. I wouldn't view telling his family you weren't coming to the meal (on the other thread?) as mean but that he was trying to protect you because as you came across it was clear there was no way you should be put through it at that time.
Grief sucks. I have been very destabilised by grief (to put it mildy!) & knew I wasn't coping. In retrospect,I wish I'd taken time off work - I was unable to focus enough so messed up then landed myself with a whole lot more to cope with when I was already at breaking point. Are you able to take some time off?

So sorry for your loss OP. I do hope you find some peace as time passes and that your children and partner will bring you happiness and contentment.

I think there needs to be a distinction between the actual losses and how OP is personally grieving those losses, and the expectations placed on the extended family As to how they should react to those losses.

How the OP grieves her losses is for her to decide. And I can understand that If the OP thought she was unable to have any more children, the sudden ability to fall pregnant not once but twice would have created new expectations at that point, and for those expectations to have been removed after the second miscarriage must have felt like being robbed in a way.

But with regard to the extended family, they also have the right to react in their own way, even more so given that these were early losses and the sex of the baby was not actually known - it was the OP who insisted it should be a DD, and that people should think of it as their cousin, sister, granddaughter etc. With this in mind the FIL's comment is very understandable, because in truth there is no DD, there was a pregnancy, but there is just as much chance that it would have been a DS as a DD. Any assertion that it was a girl cousin, or a sister or granddaughter is in essence a fantasy created by the OP in order to keep a memory alive of a baby who never got the chance to be. But nobody should feel obligated to go along with that just because the OP is grieving her own loss. We should be sympathetic to someone's feelings of loss but not to the extent of going along with something like this.

And it goes beyond the adults if the children are being told this stuff and expected to play a part in it. There is no way I would entertain the notion of my children having to refer to a girl cousin who never actually existed and who may in fact not have been a girl. And this may be the dilemma the SIL is facing, because while she is still going through her pregnancy, at some point she will have a baby, who will grow up, and if they go along with the girl cousin idea now then there's a chance that her child will be expected to be a part of that, and she may not want them to be, and neither should she.

Good post wannabe
OP Repeatedly says she has the right to grieve in her own way and for however long and I totally agree but she shouldn't expect everyone else to do the same.
My DC don't even know I had a Mc before I had them and although I may tell them one day I certainly wouldn't expect them to see him/her as a sibling. I didn't even tell DD I was pg with her brother until I was 12 weeks just in case. I don't think mc is something a young child needs to deal with

WannaBe You have articulated the situation perfectly.

OP, I do hope you read this.

I am six years on from a 16 week loss and I categorically disagree that early losses are not babies.

I actually found this thread hard to read and that's six years on. You are not crazy, you are not unreasonable, you are grieving for your child.

If someone said "there is no dd" to me, I would never want anything to do with them again.

And my children know about the dd we lost and ask about her from time to time. We don't dwell on it. But she is part of our family.

Allow spot on post! Totally agree with you