I don't know how to (or if I can) let this go. Any ideas?

[FrazzleRock]

I have posted a lot about my issues with our missed miscarriage and DP's family.

For background info:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2748670-Im-broken-and-I-have-taken-the-family-with-me?pg=7

This issue is regarding a group family chat on FB messenger.
The conversation started by DP's step mum along the lines of looking forward to Christmas and that it will be such a happy time etc..
Then her own son (DP's step brother) then said:
"well for some of us 2016 has been a bit of a cunt"
(SB has had health issues)
I responded and said:
"I'm with step brother on this, I for one am looking forward to New Year as I want to say goodbye to 2016"
Step mum then said something like:
"yes step brother and Frazzle and her DP have had a hard year but let's not lose sight of the fact we haven't all had a bad year"
I then apologised, saying I was just overtired then carried on the conversation, and that's when the talk of her daughter's (DP's step sister) pregnancy started, which I fully participated in.
I wanted to show that I was interested and trying to overcome my own grief.
I joined in with the discussion around guessing when their baby will arrive and I even suggested we all take a stab at guessing the sex and the weight.
DP's Step Mum said ''Niece will be gutted if she has another boy cousin" I responded with this:
"Awww DD (who we lost) is niece's girl cousin and anyway, the baby could be a girl so niece will have two girl cousins "

(FWIW, I totally understand that I should probably have said 'was', not 'is' but have trouble with the 'was' as DD is still our daughter no matter what)

However, DP's dad then responded with:

"No Frazzle, DD is not niece's little girl cousin. There is no DD, I am sorry"

This comment was the final straw for me and I suffered a huge panic attack about 5 minutes later, which I have never experienced before so was pretty scary .

Since then, I just cannot get my head around it or get the comment out of my head. DP and I are both furious, though DP has now become 'pally' again with his dad as he doesn't want to be angry with him (lots of clashes in the past between DP and his dad and he isn't getting any younger, yadda yadda.... so fair enough)

I just cannot undertand why someone would be so insensitive, especially when I am clearly trying very hard to participate in their joy of the new baby, when all I feel is pain and (I am ashamed to admit on here) downright raw jealousy.
Why is it ok to get super excited about the new baby but our DD doesn't exist? I don't know how to move forward. I know that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I just cannot seem to grasp why someone (DD's own grandfather) would be so brutal. I can't speak to him, I want nothing to do with him right now. All I can feel is rage towards him and feel so hurt that DD's own grandfather thinks she was nothing, but the new baby is to be celebrated.
I keep feeling worried for the step sister and her husband in case they lose their baby, for obvious reasons, but also because the family support is so shit and their baby's existence will be dropped so easily, just like ours was

I know that I need to let this go because it is eating me up. It is causing a huge rift between DP and me. We had a terrible time after this comment was made, talk of breaking up etc . The past few days have been much better after a chat but there is this underlying frustration I have regarding his dad.
I could never forgive him for a comment like that, not that he would ever apologise. He told DP that he would say it again if he had to.

Am I maybe being over sensitive because of my grief?
Friends' reactions to the message tells me I am not, but maybe they are being biased and angry on my behalf. I don't know. I showed my mum and she was furious. But maybe I need to get a grip and just look at it as his loss for not experiencing the presence and love we did for our DD.

Its just all so hard . I want our DD to be remembered and loved. I don't want to be shot down for talking about her, especially when I have done it in such a happy way.

It does sound like he is (insensitively) dealing with his grief differently. He was obviously keen to be a grandpa and invested in your baby but it sounds like as other pp have suggested, he cannot see her as having 'existed' given how she was lost.

His comment sounds like he is trying to 'help' you by trying to force you to move on. Also it sounds like he's not comfortable talking about his GC as some one who has existed. I would just say to him that you're not ready to move on and that this is how you're dealing with your grief and that he hurt you. I would say this face to face, one on one with him, if you feel able. But I always feel better having got feelings out in the open, totally depends how strong you're feeling.

I do agree that many people don't see mc as a lost child And would be concerned if someone did. if someone said they lost their daughter I would assume they meant from birth onwards. I think his comment may partly have been concern that you are taking it too far and in a fatherly way was not wanting you to try and get everyone to indulge your views of the miscarriage as a child in the wider family. Although you meant it in a happy way, to them it says "but what about my miscarriage, I'm still greiving, can we talk about that? Can we all imagine her?"
I also think knowing you're not having anymore is making this an awful lot harder for you.

0hCrepe "I also think knowing you're not having anymore is making this an awful lot harder for you"
Yes this fact is a constant daily struggle of mine. I have never felt so desperate and pained. But I am trying to work through this. Trying and failing (mostly) but the AD's are definitely helping. Even though my psych doesn't believe I am depressed, I think I was wise to start taking them before I lost the plot entirely!

I don't think he intended to hurt you, but some people lack sensitivity where these things are concerned. It's different when you carry the child inside you to cope with the loss, but to others the baby is no longer with us.

Maybe if you said "DD would have been another girl cousin", his response would have been different, but he should have not bothered responding at all.

I think you need to let it go, before people feel unable to mention anything baby related near you. I'm sorry for your loss. FIL should have kept quiet and I agree that your step MIL kind of got sabotaged trying to be positive.

On your last thread your DPs Dad said they were all walking on eggshells around you.

And that your SIL had to block your FB as it was upsetting her too much because of too many posts about miscarriage awareness.

I think you are so determined to keep your lost DD "alive" that his family are really struggling with it. Clearly your DP is too.

I think you are in danger of losing everyone.

I really hope you start to feel better soon x

Your step MIL kind of got sabotaged trying to be positive

I apologised for being negative to begin with (step brother didn't but not my issue) and then spoke very positively about the new baby.

I have shown nothing but positivity recently. I was outwardly happy at the latest family event, despite feeling dreadful inside. I had one lapse and DP and I went outside for a cuddle and a cry. But came back to the house to carry on the fun.

In the message, I was clearly showing my interest in the new baby and willing them to talk about the new baby by suggesting we guess the sex and the weight. Even step sister's husband said "Oh I agree with Frazzle that baby will be a boy". The conversation was going great, until I happily dropped DD into the conversation, wrongly thinking I was safe to do so.

I don't think I am wrong to want to keep our DD's memory alive. I have friends who have lost babies and, even before we lost ours, I felt it was completely normal for them to want to talk about their babies and keep their memory alive. In fact I encouraged them when they spoke about them. It just felt natural. So I guess I just expected others to do the same for us. Never in a million years would I expect anyone to be so insensitive, least not our own family. I just expected them to try their best to understand as much as possible and support us, like they have said they support us. I am yet to see any support from them to be honest.

On your last thread your DPs Dad said they were all walking on eggshells around you
Yes. Not because they can't talk about the new baby, but because they can't tell me to get over it. Why can't they just be supportive?

And that your SIL had to block your FB as it was upsetting her too much because of too many posts about miscarriage awareness
That is fine, I have hidden her too as the feeling is mutual, but I don't feel the need to let her know about it as it would hurt her feelings. I hide my feelings from her and act happily and normal around her. I feel I am treading eggshells around her.

I think you are so determined to keep your lost DD "alive" that his family are really struggling with it. Clearly your DP is too
Yes I know I am. I want to keep her memory alive. It is natural to want to do so. If I lost anyone that close to me I would want to keep their memory alive.

I think you are in danger of losing everyone. Why? Because I want to grieve in my own time? But I am not allowed to around them because it annoys them so, to keep the peace, I have to force myself to be happy with pills and strategies.

I can now see it from their side, but I also see things from the side of any parent who has lost a baby. I would never ever say what DP's dad did. Even if I though it. I would not be that cruel.
Also if I was lucky enough to be pregnant again I would be 100% understanding of someone who has lost a baby. I would never make them feel bad for talking about their baby. They would have been through enough already. In fact I would encourage it, if I sensed they needed that. Especially if it was in a positive light, but also if they needed the support if they were feeling shit. Bottom line is I would let them talk about their baby if they needed to and I would never judge them for doing so.

But that is just me and how I would deal with the situation if it were the other way around.

If I'm getting the timeline right, yours were early losses? Which, although devastating of course, can be hard for others to process as an 'actual' baby. My SIL has had three early losses and has had some spectacularly insensitive comments from people who love her (so we can assume weren't deliberately trying to hurt her) and probably 'meant well' but got it wrong. It sounds a bit like the FIL here was one of those people because, by the sounds of it, he does care for you and did care for the babies but just doesn't know how to feel about the loss of a baby he never got to meet.

The situation is heartbreaking for you but a lot of people just arn't very good at dealing with people's grief, especially when it's grief over an unborn baby and there are no 'memories' for them.

As a PP said, I think in this instance you perhaps gave away a bit more than you could afford to in the fb chat and FIL didn't want to not respond at all but ended up responding in an insensitive way.

Our second was a natural early loss at about four weeks.
Our first one was a missed miscarriage. We expected to see our bouncy baby at a scan but she had died at nine weeks.
I don't like to mention at what stage we lost our babies as, to me, any stage is devastating and I end up having to back my pain up by saying that once you have that BFP, you fall in love with that little child running around the house and scuffing their shoes on the way to school.
When you talk to that child every single day and sing to them and tell them all the things you are going to do together as a family, it is a horrible tragedy to then be told that that child's heart has stopped beating.
Being wheeled into the theatre to have your sweet little baby taken out of you without a mention of a goodbye service or help with how you're going to feel afterwards. Just sent on your way without your baby.
It's fucking brutal.
And then having another miscarriage and having to go for tests because I was haemorrhaging for days on end at only 4/5 weeks.
And then having DP tell me we cannot try again. Just another kick while I am down.

I just wish DP's dad could see that. And see how well I am doing with the step sister and how much I was trying to be a part of the fun, despite feeling like my insides have been smashed to pieces. Can he not see that step sister baby is alive. She isnt having to deal with the daily pain of child loss. Her only problem is feeling like she can't talk about her baby around me, which I have already told her she should.
Yes I sound utterly selfish and bitter, but why does she get the princess treatment and why should I keep quiet around her? Who here is treading eggshells?

I honestly do not think it is much to ask for a bit of compassion and encouragement and understanding that I want to grieve by remembering my baby. Remembering her makes me smile. Talking about her makes me smile and gives me happy thoughts of my pregnancy with her.

But I am fully prepared to be judged about the stage we lost our babies, despite not asking for that. Or asking if I am being unreasonable. I don't think I am being unreasonable. If I was unsure about that I would have posted in AIBU.

Sorry, this has turned into a bit of a rant! I think I am just saying everything I want to say to DP's dad but can't. I am not lashing out at any of you

I'm trying to think of a way to word this that doesn't sound completely heartless.

Your loss is tragic and you don't have to forget it or move on or anything else, especially not until you're ready.

But this was a discussion about a new baby. And to bring up your dd and the tragedy was a bit off color, IMO.

They're excited and want to chat and be happy about it...I'm not saying don't talk about your dd. Of course not.

But this was the time to dicuss the new baby and I'm sure people just want to be able to feel excited and not be reminded of such a tragic thing at that particlar time.

Frazzle I hope you don't mind me asking but how did you know it was a girl? I had the same as you, though I started spotting at 11weeks and had a scan because of that which showed no heartbeat and that the baby had stopped growing at 9 weeks. I had the womb evacuation too but never knew what sex it was, though I imagined it was maybe a girl. I think it could be a comfort to be able to know.
Is trying for another absolutely definitely out of the question?

X post.

But do you want to remind them of your loss every time they discuss the baby??

You don't want them not to talk about new baby but you want to be able to use the discussion to remind them of the miscarriage!

It's not fair. I'm sorry. But it's not fair to keep forcing everyone else to grieve at those times.

I mean this kindly but not everybody does 'fall in love with that little child' the minute they get their BFP. I have a child and am pregnant just now and that doesn't ring true for me at all. My point being that it might be hard for family members to understand how you are feeling because they don't process the reality of a new baby until it is here, and very sadly your babies didn't get to be 'here' for them in the way that they did for you.

You need to try to work out how you really feel - on the one hand you are 'selfish and bitter' about her getting the 'princess treatment' and on the other you are 'trying to be part of the fun' about her pregnancy. Your emotions are clearly all over the place and to be fair to those around you, maybe you don't hide the angry and bitter side of you as well as you think and they just don't know how to handle you being 'fake' happy for them. Its a bit of a mess really, but one that might be helped by you all talking about it properly (not messaging).

I was pregnant when my SIL had her second miscarriage. She couldn't bear to see me and wouldn't have anything to do with me. I understood, of course I did, but it really hurt and the whole situation damaged our relationship on both sides. It was only when we sat down and really talked about how we both felt that we were able to start rebuilding things, and now we have a good relationship. Facebook messages are not what you need here.

I do not think it is fair to say she expects the princess treatment to want to go through her pregnancy without someone in her family talking about miscarriage.

You say why should you keep quiet around her? Cos it's the decent thing to do. Her pregnancy is not over. You just don't talk about your dead foetus around a pregnant woman, you just don't.

I apologise for being blunt and possibly repetitive but I'm wondering how far along your pregnancies were? I'm only asking as I have had pregnancy losses at 9 weeks and also 26 weeks. My mc is not generally acknowledged within my family as, unfortunately, it's part of life. I don't mean that to be insensitive as I understand the grief of pregnancy loss.

What I did want to say I hough does depend on the gestation at loss. My dd doesn't have a cousin. Exh sis had several mc's and, while I sympathise entirely, my dd doesn't have cousins and people would probably say the same as your fil.

OP it sounds like you are hurting a great deal. But I don't think the way you are dealing with this is proportionate or healthy, and this is coming from someone who's had a termination for medical reasons at 14 weeks and a miscarriage at 5 weeks.

Pregnancy loss is something that's, rightly or wrongly, not publicly spoken about a great deal. Your DPs family sound like they have no idea how to deal with it or speak about it, that does not make them wrong, and turning a discussion about an ongoing healthy pregnancy into a discussion about you and your loss is a bit off and quite unfair. You can't expect them to feel how you feel.

Do you think the not being able to have anymore children is the main problem? Which is why you are holding on to your losses so tightly?

I remember when I was a few weeks pregnant and remarking to a colleague that I was just desperate to get to the 12 week scan.

She said with an incongruously bright smile "oh that means nothing - let's hope you don't lose it at 20 weeks like me! You could, you know! It happens!"

It destroyed me. I was a basket case thereafter, petrified every week until the birth. She too probably felt like there was no reason to keep quiet. But the effect on me was horrible.

Frazzle, I have nothing but sympathy for your obvious pain and turmoil, but I can understand why FIL said what he did.

I think a lot of people would struggle to hear someone talk about a nine week miscarriage in the same terms as a stillbirth or neonatal death.

I think he was trying to make it clear that he doesn't think it's appropriate given your fragile mental health.

Hard to hear I'm sure, and although it's true that not everyone grieves in the same way, I can see why they feel your manner of thinking is only magnifying your pain.

I do think people should talk about loss more, it still seems a bit of a taboo. I have a good friend who had a full-term stillbirth and she often talks about her son, has photos of him on display in the house and is very comfotable with bringing it up. Yes it scares the shit out of me but he was her son. I do think that for a lot of people there is a difference between her situation and the situation of somebody who has lost a pregnancy at 4-5 weeks and that's where people (probably me included) can be a bit insensitive without meaning to.

KatelovesJames - OP has said 9 weeks and 4 weeks.

Hi OP I can totally understand what you are feeling and how insensitive people can be. At what stage you lost your babies is totally irrelevant as the pain is there no matter what.

We had two losses in the last year which was so difficult & unbearable at times. It is only recently that I can say to people not close to me that I had two losses.

Not sure of the system in the U.K. (I'm in Ireland) but we got bereavement counselling which greatly helped and months later found out the sex of the first baby which I avoided for ages but not feel it was an important part of the process.

Through the hospital we then had a naming ceremony for both babies which again was so painful but healing at the same time.

We would have been due our second baby around now. I am pregnant again and due in April which is great but I will never forget my two babies.

My own mother said to me after a few weeks that I needed to build a bridge & get over it so can understand how you feel. Now I'm out the other side I can see that some people do not know what to say or do. Definitely speaking to a professional will help. Your body, let alone your mind and spirit have been through so much and you need to be kind to yourself.

Op, I think you're grieving the loss of any future children.
You should just politely duck out of such conversations in future, it will just cause you pain.
But your comment about your lost pregnancy being a small child's girl cousin wasn't called for and I'm 100% sure that nobody apart from you and your DH will ever see an early miscarriage as a person.
I'm not trying to sound heartless, I've had a MMC at 18 weeks and a MC At 4 weeks so I get the pain. The only thing that helped me get over them was having my DS so I sympathise hugely. But that's the pain you're feeling I think. The loss of your dreams. And nobody else will ever understand or feel that like you do.
That comment was fucking horrible and uncalled for btw.

The thing is, early loss is not the same as the loss of a child, and as hard as it is, any grief you feel over it is yours. It's unreasonable to expect people to consider an early loss as the loss of a grandchild, niece, cousin etc.

I can see why your FIL said what he did TBH, as hard as it is for you, for others, there isn't a memory of DD to keep alive. And for any future niece/nephew they won't have two girl cousins, and it would be absolutely inappropriate to ever say anything of the sort to any child.

I do agree with PP that it seems you are mourning the loss of future children. There's no question that it must be absolutely devastating to have been through the TTC process, suffered two MC, and to then be told that you cannot ever contemplate the possibility of future children. But hopefully your counselling will help you through this process.

I just want to say thank you to those who have given me ways to deal with the insensitive comment. I think I will take your advice and stay away or just avoid mentioning my sweet little baby around them. I feel she deserves more credit and love but there we have it.

To the others who appear to be attacking my happy involvement in the family conversation, your words have not been so helpful, but thank you for telling me that he was right and I was wrong, despite me not asking who was unreasonable.

I thought asking for help to let his hurtful comment go would provide me with coping strategies, but instead I feel even more pushed away and silenced than I did before.

Thanks again to those who have been supportive and have suggested ways to get through it

Hi op, my sympathies on your miscarriages.

My daughter died aged 1 month and 1 day, after I had gone full term with her.

There is a difference between an early miscarriage and when you have been pregnant for nine months and give birth to a baby who subsequently dies - I know you are upset but there really is.

Can I ask why you can't have any more? I know lots of people who have had miscarriages and then gone on to have healthy children.