I don't know how to (or if I can) let this go. Any ideas?

[FrazzleRock]

I have posted a lot about my issues with our missed miscarriage and DP's family.

For background info:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2748670-Im-broken-and-I-have-taken-the-family-with-me?pg=7

This issue is regarding a group family chat on FB messenger.
The conversation started by DP's step mum along the lines of looking forward to Christmas and that it will be such a happy time etc..
Then her own son (DP's step brother) then said:
"well for some of us 2016 has been a bit of a cunt"
(SB has had health issues)
I responded and said:
"I'm with step brother on this, I for one am looking forward to New Year as I want to say goodbye to 2016"
Step mum then said something like:
"yes step brother and Frazzle and her DP have had a hard year but let's not lose sight of the fact we haven't all had a bad year"
I then apologised, saying I was just overtired then carried on the conversation, and that's when the talk of her daughter's (DP's step sister) pregnancy started, which I fully participated in.
I wanted to show that I was interested and trying to overcome my own grief.
I joined in with the discussion around guessing when their baby will arrive and I even suggested we all take a stab at guessing the sex and the weight.
DP's Step Mum said ''Niece will be gutted if she has another boy cousin" I responded with this:
"Awww DD (who we lost) is niece's girl cousin and anyway, the baby could be a girl so niece will have two girl cousins "

(FWIW, I totally understand that I should probably have said 'was', not 'is' but have trouble with the 'was' as DD is still our daughter no matter what)

However, DP's dad then responded with:

"No Frazzle, DD is not niece's little girl cousin. There is no DD, I am sorry"

This comment was the final straw for me and I suffered a huge panic attack about 5 minutes later, which I have never experienced before so was pretty scary .

Since then, I just cannot get my head around it or get the comment out of my head. DP and I are both furious, though DP has now become 'pally' again with his dad as he doesn't want to be angry with him (lots of clashes in the past between DP and his dad and he isn't getting any younger, yadda yadda.... so fair enough)

I just cannot undertand why someone would be so insensitive, especially when I am clearly trying very hard to participate in their joy of the new baby, when all I feel is pain and (I am ashamed to admit on here) downright raw jealousy.
Why is it ok to get super excited about the new baby but our DD doesn't exist? I don't know how to move forward. I know that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I just cannot seem to grasp why someone (DD's own grandfather) would be so brutal. I can't speak to him, I want nothing to do with him right now. All I can feel is rage towards him and feel so hurt that DD's own grandfather thinks she was nothing, but the new baby is to be celebrated.
I keep feeling worried for the step sister and her husband in case they lose their baby, for obvious reasons, but also because the family support is so shit and their baby's existence will be dropped so easily, just like ours was

I know that I need to let this go because it is eating me up. It is causing a huge rift between DP and me. We had a terrible time after this comment was made, talk of breaking up etc . The past few days have been much better after a chat but there is this underlying frustration I have regarding his dad.
I could never forgive him for a comment like that, not that he would ever apologise. He told DP that he would say it again if he had to.

Am I maybe being over sensitive because of my grief?
Friends' reactions to the message tells me I am not, but maybe they are being biased and angry on my behalf. I don't know. I showed my mum and she was furious. But maybe I need to get a grip and just look at it as his loss for not experiencing the presence and love we did for our DD.

Its just all so hard . I want our DD to be remembered and loved. I don't want to be shot down for talking about her, especially when I have done it in such a happy way.

OP that's unfair.

Not one person on this thread has been unkind.

But you were out of line bringing up a miscarriage during a conversation about a thus far healthy pregnancy.

And, I've miscarried. I know how shit it is. But my sister had a stillbirth and I know that it's very, very different.

This is such a sad thread.

I really do think that the way you are grieving is not helpful for you. To be blunt (and I'm not trying to be cruel), losses in the early weeks are not babies. Giving your lost pregnancy a name and sex (forgive me if I'm wrong but I didn't think they could tell the sex of a nine week foetus?), and talking about your miscarried pregnancy as a daughter or a cousin, seems to be actually harming you.

I understand your losses are compounded by being unable to try again, and I think that's all relevant.

But I urge you to get some help with this. It's normal to feel sad, and to grieve, but your reactions are out of kilter. One fifth of pregnancies end in a miscarriage. It is unfortunately a common fact of life. What's not common is being this stricken with grief months later.

I do feel for you. But I think you need some help to unpick just why this has devestated you to such a degree.

I think your family are right. Sorry.

Giving your lost pregnancy a name and sex (forgive me if I'm wrong but I didn't think they could tell the sex of a nine week foetus?), and talking about your miscarried pregnancy as a daughter or a cousin, seems to be actually harming you

Completely agree with this. I think, as others have suggested, that your grief may be tied into you not being able to try again for whatever reasons.

I sympathise, I honestly do (I lost a baby at 26 weeks), but I think for the time being you perhaps need to stay away from DH's family and deal with your grief.

I think your DP's dad was trying to help you.

It was brave and kind of him to say something to you that others are avoiding saying because it would be so distressing.

People sound very concerned for you, but unsure how to help.

It is extremely common to miscarry at 9 or 4 weeks. Thousands of those women, me included, go on to have healthy children. Could you explain why you aren't going to try again?

Also, I agree with others that the way you are handling this doesn't sound at all healthy and that it sounds like you need extra help. And please do tell us how you supposedly knew the sex of these babies? Especially the 4 week one.

I wonder if your dh can see that you are suffering hugely and your mental health has taken a real hit and that he thinks getting pregnant again will only make you worse. though I think it would help you, as others agree.

OP, nobody has attacked you. Nobody. But there cannot be such a thing as happy involvement in a conversation concerning a current pregnancy when that involvement is based on discussing a early miscarriage and expecting that to be considered the same as a baby. It's not the same.

I agree with previous posters that your grief is disproportionate given the circumstances. Early miscarriage is incredibly common sadly. And when it happens it is of course devastating for the person concerned. But it isn't the same as a stillbirth. Most women will in fact suffer an early loss, and for most of those women there is no expectation that people refer to those losses as cousins or siblings or nieces and nephews etc.

This is hard for you because you cannot talk about pregnancy in the same way as your step sister. And they just won't see it the same.

Frazzle's partner has changed his mind about wanting a baby.

I said in a previous thread that, essentially, it was cruel of him to TTC twice and then backtrack, but he has his reasons. I do feel that being unable to TTC again, against her will, is the reason Frazzle is suffering so much and is hanging on to these lost pregnancies.

Sorry to talk about you like you're not here, OP. It must be hard carrying on with the relationship with this hanging over you.

The DP says they can't afford to try again.

From reading the OP's previous thread it appears that she and her DP do already have DC, as she makes reference to buying a new house so the baby would have had its own room and the DC have their own room each.

With this in mind while it seems harsh, it does make more sense that the DP has decided that he no longer wants to TTC any more after all,.

However, also with this in mind, I would hope that the OP isn't telling the existing DC about "their sister" and expecting them to be a part of that, because no good can come of that in terms of what is best for the DC.

WannaBe, My understanding from the OP's previous threads is that this is a fairly new DP, met in 2015, and he actually didn't want children originally.

I'm sorry for your losses OP, and that you are struggling. I had a MMC at 13 weeks and it was very upsetting.

I do think though that it is unrealistic, and unfair, to expect extended family to consider an early miscarriage to be their niece, cousin or granddaughter. I also don't believe, with the already strained atmosphere over this issue, that you really believed that talking about your miscarriage was a happy, chatty contribution. I think you probably just couldn't stop yourself from bringing it up because you are angry and in pain. Talking about a 9 week MC as your dead daughter isn't proportionate, I'm sorry but it's not. I really hope that you can seek counselling and support to come to terms with things because you deserve to be able to move on and be happy.

OP is taking ADs and seeking help for her mh.

I feel she deserves more credit and love but there we have it.

Or simply forgetting that our DD is not important to others. Much as I had hoped her family would think she was.

You're not being fair here. Family members aren't saying they wouldn't have loved her or held her as important.

frazzle I wonder if can offer a perspective from a grandparent? It is all meant to be gentle and kind.

I have 2 grown up dds and now 3 dgc
dd1 has one child and then had a miscarriage
dd2 had 3 miscarriages and then had 2 dc

I am very close to my dds and I love them dearly. I also think I am quite sensitive to their feelings and emotions, however difficult. That said, this is written from MY perspective....

When either of my dds were pregnant MY relationship with the unborn baby seemed like it was always in the future tense (in how I felt, not just in language). So I said I'm ^going to be^ a grandmother, or I'm looking forward to being a grandmother again. I know from my own experience of having children how real that tiny growing child was to me, but it definitely felt different with my grandchildren. My feelings were all for my daughters - I was excited for them, desperately interested in how their pregnancies were progressing, amazed to feel their babies moving and kicking inside them.

When dd2 had a series of miscarriages I was heartbroken for HER (and her dh). As a mother it broke me to see her broken. I was sad that my grandchild(ren) were not born and living, but I have to say I did not, and still don't, feel like I was a grandparent to those lost babies. I feel like I ^would have been^ a grandparent, but not like I was. In the years before dd2 had a baby born at full term (and dd1 had no dc) I didn't call myself a grandparent. If anyone had asked directly I would have told them about dd's miscarriages, so I wasn't trying to shy away from the sadness or pretend it didn't happen.

It seems to me that for a mother, the growing of a child in your womb makes you a mother. But for me as a grandmother the relationship began after the birth. Even then (although I was delighted) it was very different from the immense protective mother-love I felt when my own dds were born. My dgc and I have learnt how to love each other. It is a precious relationship helped by genetic bonds, but we are not in the same intimate physical and emotional bond that a mother and child are (of any gestational / life age).

The death of my dd1's unborn baby recently feels the most sad - she is unlikely to have any other children - and there is an empty cot and a huge gap in our lives. But I still describe myself as having 3 grandchildren, not 7. I am sorry if this is painful to you, and to other posters who feel the same.

frazzle you mentioned in a previous post about wanting to speak about your daughter to your step-SIL and the rest of the family. For me, the real and honest discussions would work best - speaking to your sSIL about your jealousy at her being able to plan and buy nursery furniture, sharing the research you did about car seats [or whatever]. Tell people about your sadness that you can't celebrate your daughter's birthday. But I think it is difficult to expect other people to remember when her birthday would have been.

And please, take your time and re-establish your life at your own pace. Don't feel under pressure, and don't pretend you will ever be the same again.

For you she was very real and very loved and its right for you to remember her. But you remember her as the DD you lost not the DD you had. For the grandparents they have lost the idea of a DD for them she was never real, your niece cannot understand (and should not be made to understand) the concept of a baby that died - for her she has no girl cousin.

Your grief seems all consuming but others have moved - that is life Im afraid, perhaps he was simply trying to say that. Your grief for a missed miscarriage is within the normal range of people's expectation for grief nearly 10 months down the line and perhaps they are trying to say that.

Hello it's Frazzle here.

I am having this thread deleted as it is not healthy for me. I asked for advice on how to let DP's dad's brutal comment go so that I can get on with things. But instead I have had mostly:

People comparing my baby to a still birth - I never said anything of the sort and, considering how I feel about losing my own child, I cannot begin to imagine how it feels to lose a baby once it has been born.

People gossiping about how I know what sex my baby was. DP and I wanted to give her an identity as felt extremely uncomfortable calling our baby 'it'. I had a dream she was a gril and my children also believed she was a girl. I did not say the little one we lost at 4 weeks was a girl or a boy. I was referring to our nine week missed miscarriage. Not that it matters. A loss is a loss.

And yes she absolutely is the DC's sister and they like talking about her, unprompted. They talk about her in a happy way, just as we do. She is a happy memory.

Professionals I have spoken to say my feelings about my baby are completely natural and should not be suppressed. They say my jealousy towards others is 100% normal and I should not feel bad about it (but obviously I do, who wouldn't).
When having conversations with the family about the new baby I have been clearly participating happily and adding smiley faces etc. But I know that I do not need to tell you this as I know I am doing a great job and have been encouraged by DP too. He is proud of me.

I honestly do not remember this ever being an AIBU. But it seems to have turned into one with people gossiping and talking about me like I am a mental case. My psychiatric nurse (a professional) even says I am normal, just grieving. But you all seem to have me pegged as a loon.

Finally, I will grieve exactly how I want to grieve. I am in touch with many other parents who have lost a child. Some at the same stage as us, some earlier, some much later and we all support eachother and never compare our grief or pain. A lot of parents will name their baby, regardless of knowing the sex. We are all grieving. It is hard for everyone. Know one judges anyone or calls anyone out for grieving too much.

I have learnt a valuable lesson after many years on MN. This place has changed a lot. I miss the old MN. Can't beat the good old days!

I hope you all have a lovely evening. I for one am going to forget I ever started this and put my feet up in front of the TV with DP

I have only just got back in OP and wanted to hug you before this thread goes. You are grieving and bereft, that much is clear. Please be kind to yourself. I don't agree with "tough love", never have, never will. If you feel something your feelings are valid.

You are obviously in a very bad place and I hope you start to heal soon.

Fwiw I don't see any gossip or harsh words in the thread and I think it is down to your current state of mind that you do.

I wish you all the best.

Also in topics lovey there is a thread called miscarriage/pregnancy loss. I think posting there might be more helpful as there will be people who feel as you have. No one has to grieve in the same way, no one will react in the same way, we are all human and unique but I think empathy is lacking on this thread, irrespective of the caveats of "I've had x y z but"
I despair sometimes. Take care of you. X

Thank you so much Kimmy. That means an awful lot

I will stick to the MC boards in future. Anywhere else turns into AIBU

I have reported this now so it should disappear soon hopefully!

Okay love. You get that down you and get snuggled. I wasn't telling you to stick to other boards btw I was just concerned for you. All the best, Kimmy X

I don't think anybody was gossiping or talking about you like you are 'mental', I think people were just offering opinions and you don't like the ones that are not the same as yours. I wish you all the best though, you have clearly had a very tough year

Dear OP you do what you need to do & agree that the miscarriage forum is better for you & your situation. Also feel that some people are minimising what you have been through by then adding 'well I had one too'. All the more reason to show empathy & understanding especially as the op has had 2 losses quite close together! Take care of yourself