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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Why do they have the right? Why is it fair?

124 replies

g059902 · 11/12/2016 21:18

How is it then men have the right to be...a part of/the leader in creating a family; a home; becoming a step parent and creating a bond with that child; persuading and promising to "always do the right thing" and be sure they work as part of a partnership through all the good and bad times that come with starting a family; be present at a women's most vulnerable, emotional and intimate moments of giving birth and bringing a life into the world and then just decide to leave.
I understand that are always factors that are to be taken into consideration, however, generally on the whole, when there was "true" happiness, but things get a bit rocky, how is it men have the option and think it is "normal" and acceptable to just leave? I am not talking about just my own circumstances, it happens all the time. You hear of men just leaving and as in my circs, I imagine it is a common theme that they will use any excuse, any reason, any flaw to somehow justify what they have done. Women since the age of time and probably for the rest of time, have been left "holding the baby"; managing the household; finances; ensuring their children are happy, as much as they can be when this happens; dealing with schools; doctors; appointments; illness; sleepless nights etc etc etc and all the while men think it is somehow ok, or justifiable to do this . And furthermore, take pride in creating a new life.
I just do not get it and I also do not see why they should be allowed to simply opt to do the part time dad thing and again, this be ok. When did this become so accepted and just a part of life that people need to get over?

This is not the life I wanted for my babies and neither do I think I should have to accept it just because that's a decision he has made. People around me say "he's too young" (hes 6 years my junior, early 20s) and he will realize his mistake one day; he wont ever get back this time; etc etc etc it still does not make it either justifiable or acceptable. However, society says it is and legally, it is. There is no moral justification to what I see as something that is probably the most important thing in life to be cast aside like a one night stand or left over food.
Why should I accept that my ex has decided that "there were aspects of my personality" he didn't like, and clearly he wasn't prepared to be the partner I was to him and help me to be the best version of myself and so ducked out of "our family" and within 24 hours into a new relationship to ensure that any opportunity that "could have" been was certainly not going to ever be.

So lets say things were bad (at the time we argued, a lot, I had PND and he was not engaging in the family unit as he should do but instead focused on his own wants and needs out until early hours, lack of engagement with the children lives; lying about where abouts and money; not supporting me as the bread winner when it was my time to work), someone decides they cant be bothered to put up with the arguments and leaves, fine (well not really but can be worked on), but surely, in the majority of these situations after the heat has died down as parents; adults; people who were apparently "in love" only a few weeks ago, it would be "normal" to allow what is meant to be, be. But, not here, here we have someone who has forced a situation and then moved in and on with someone else immediately, with no thought about what was a family unit.
But... this is acceptable, and I am just to get over it and on with life. Not only has my heart been broken, but my family unit, the life I created for my children has been shattered and will never be what it should be. My baby will never ever grow up having memories of climbing into bed on a weekend morning and cuddling/laughing; she won't have the Sunday afternoons of just lounging out after an activity or walk in the morning playing with daddy while Mummy cooks a roast and prepares for school and the work week; excitement on the preparation to Christmas and family holidays etc and all of the other cherished memories a child will hold on to. This person has managed to define, his; mine and my 2 children's lives and all that is to be done is move on and get over it.
How? How do you accept the fact that someone has been allowed to firstly do this, but secondly fail to give the family/a relationship any opportunity to either exist or not?

Why should women accept this? Why is this ok? And why should I now have to live without a section of my children's lives because of someone else's decision?

There are legal rights in place to protect absent parents who are fighting to be a part of their children lives, but what about for the parents that have been well and truly screwed over; abonded and left holding all the responsibility; the pain etc etc.

This is not fair on my children or I and for the many thousands of other families that go through this. The one thing in life that should be a serious commitment and not thrown away at the drop if a hat is a family and it is the most common thing that happens.

Its one thing to accept a relationship breakdown, fine these happen, but to disregard what should be something so pure and true without no second thought, that relationship and family unit, how is this ok on a moral level if nothing else!

OP posts:
Ratonastick · 13/12/2016 18:19

The problem with the anecdotes about "Mums leave too" is they suggest that the problem is evenly balanced. It isn't. I don't doubt that many of us can point to brilliant single dads or NR fathers who have had to really fight with horrendous exes. I know I certainly can but I can also point to significantly more single mums trying to keep it together in very unexpected circumstances,. But the harsh truth is that a significant majority of single resident parents are female and a significant majority of NRPs are male. Add to that that a good proportion of NRPs have low contact with their children and the arrears via the CSA/CMS are into the billions and it leads to a clear indication that this problem is gender delineated and the bias is towards women being left in the brown stuff with the kids.

The issue is that single mothers are often regarded as selfish/scrounging/burden on society/burden on ex/career obsessed/unable to keep a man/ insert insult of your choice (and believe me I have heard them all) when in fact we are the bloody heroes of the piece. If we didn't move heaven and earth and sacrifice ourselves then our kids really would be fucked. And very often their Dad's would neither know nor care.

SandyY2K · 13/12/2016 19:38

Happy, I'm so sorry you went through all that as a child.... and that your going through what you are now.

But I'm sure your Ex will do the same with his next child in years to come. Not that it's any comfort.Flowers

I don't know how these people sleep at night. My mum's friend actually said she wished her Ex was dead, because then he'd have a good reason not to stay in touch with his kids.

HappyHappyHappy1 · 13/12/2016 22:23

Thank you sandy, I'm getting through it with support.

Funny you should say that! I said the same thing to my mum that I wish my ex was dead so I could tell my son that daddy loved him & actually leave him!

I'd rather my son think he was a good guy & died than an absolute wanker who abandoned him

HappyHappyHappy1 · 13/12/2016 22:24

*and didn't actually leave him

vonny81 · 13/12/2016 23:16

Is it wrong I hope the toss pot catches aids and just does so we can live a peaceful life!? How can judges say that a child needs both parents and expose our babies to these emotional unstable pigs. It's all just a game to them. I swear he doesn't even care about our boy and he just wants to hurt me. I can just see him getting passed to his alcohol unstable grandparents whilst he's off on a drink and smoking drugs binge 😡

Newbrummie · 14/12/2016 09:29

Karma takes time but it does come around in the end. Unfortunately in our case it hurt other people more than him, but it had some impact.

AverageJosephine · 14/12/2016 09:45

Actually the karma is immediate in my opinion. They have lost the love and company of the most precious person in the world to them, their child. Also, they are massive twats. If that isn't karma...

Just unfortunately neither of the above bothers them but it doesn't make it less true.

Newbrummie · 14/12/2016 10:02

But it does make it less true. The fact is and I don't give a shit what anyone says, dads do not feel the same way about their kids as mums otherwise literally they could not do what they do, it would be physically impossible for them. And yet they do.

littleunderdog · 14/12/2016 10:17

I felt like you until I read this, about psychopaths': 'He doesn't see things like buying a house, getting a puppy, or getting engaged as signs of attachment. They are just gestures to him in order to keep a loving, cooperative person as a safety net while he pursues his adventures. He doesn't work by the same rules as you. You are normal, so you can't imagine how a person could truly have no compassion for another human being.'

vonny81 · 14/12/2016 10:18

I agree newbrum, I am having a really hard time accepting what's happened, and what hurts even more is that he doesn't care one bit.
My lb wasn't well last night, he has a rash all over his belly probably just viral or I'm thinking it could be chocolate related allergy! Well anyway I rang him up and he ignored me, I had to text saying to answer the phone as he's poorly, so he did. His answer was, what do you want me to do about it, I'll have to meet you at the hospital if you're going! It just makes me feel sick. The time of year isn't helping at all, I see families all happy and I just want to cry, song on the radio, a photo pops up on Facebook, an item of clothes, anything can set me off Sad

vonny81 · 14/12/2016 10:20

That's a good way of putting it underdog
It meant so much to me choosing a person to have a family with and I wanted it to be for life. He had 100% commitment from me and it's clear be never felt the same, he spent the last year smoking behind my back and saving money for his court fees. It's like a stab straight through the heart it hurts so much!

CIBC53 · 14/12/2016 10:25

"Dads do not feel the same way about their kids as mums"

This is it in a nutshell Newbrummie. Of course some are more loving than others and there will be some who will defend their partner to the hilt and say he is, but nurturing children is inbuilt into a woman's genetics. That why we hurt so much when they fly the nest whereas many dads see it as a good thing and they have finally got their wife back!

It isn't fair but their is nothing you can do about it.

I would however advocate not settling down too young, not getting married until you really know the person and not having children too quickly. None of this will protect you 100% but it may improve the chances of it not happening.

Newbrummie · 14/12/2016 10:25

My eldest child is like this and I'll be honest if I see her going down the road of trying to conform, getting married having kids I'll be pointing out to her that it will not make her happy. It is super hard and I try not to judge because I do truly believe that the whole family thing is bullshit to try and make men in particular conform and behave a certain way because it suits the powers that be. I'm starting to think it's just not natural behaviour looking at the sheer numbers of them that reject it. Does that make sense ?

CIBC53 · 14/12/2016 10:31

Be interesting to know the numbers but not everyone does. Clearly on here, you get the horror stories but where I live, the vast majority of my friendship group are still married. Their have been lots of blind eyes turned along the way and behaviour that perhaps the younger generation wouldn't put up with now and maybe they have not always been blissfully happy but should
Expectations be so high when you marry/commit to a partner.

I think women can buy into the fairytale and happy ever after a bit too much.

Newbrummie · 14/12/2016 10:34

Once you get divorced you start heating the stories of what goes on behind closed doors, other women feel you are a safe person they can tell they aren't happy, he's cheated, hit her, hit the DC's lots of people are living a lie. I hope some at least are happy or we're all screwed !

vonny81 · 14/12/2016 10:44

"I think women can buy into the fairytale and happy ever after a bit too much"

Definitely, this is me to a tee!

AverageJosephine · 14/12/2016 11:38

There is a thread at the moment about happy relationships. There are plenty too.

I don't think men love their kids less than women. My DH certainly loves our kids as deeply as I do. I think society and physiology is structured in a way that means they can shut down and walk away before a bond is formed. If I was faced with a situation where my partner was having a baby I did not want and I had no control over the situation and knew deep down that I was now vulnerable to the good grace of that partner who could easily hate my guts for not wanting to settle down together even if I wanted to be the best father possible. I don't know that I wouldn't shut down and walk away at the beginning of that. Luckily I'm a woman so never have to be on that side of it. I get the choice of going ahead or not and the courts are massively in my favour to be the main parent. If I was inclined to be spiteful I could seriously use the situation to emotionally destroy the father of my kids and this unfortunately does often happen.

I don't think the problem is always the tie of the child. If the baby was handed to them alone straight after birth as happens with women, I think many would make a perfectly decent stab at parenthood. It's the tie of the mother forevermore and her power over his life if they do choose to be a father that I imagine scares the shit out of plenty in this situation.

Some men and some women are just shit people about it though. But society has created plenty of self fulfilling stereotypes for both men and women and I feel this useless, uninvolved father situation is one of them.

I'm not sure however that sweeping generalisations, including mine, are of any use to people who are trying to coparent with unwilling ex's. It's very sad, hard and hugely stressful on a day to day basis for many.

AverageJosephine · 14/12/2016 11:41

My above post sounds more supportive of absent fathers than intended. I think the mums who pick up all the slack are the heroes to be honest. I just mull over why it happens so much.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 14/12/2016 13:43

dads do not feel the same way about their kids as mums

Sorry but that's not true in all cases and a sweeping generalisation.

Viviennemary · 14/12/2016 13:49

Because this society has become do what suits you. And it's wrong to judge. Everyone should be free to choose. So there is little surprise that people feel no obligation to do the right thing and not always put themselves first.

PeppermintPasty · 14/12/2016 14:02

I'm sure it's been said, (forgive me, not read the entire thread), but I feel for you OP, and indeed am a single parent myself. One thing I want to say is that you talk in your op about your dc not having certain family memories. I felt like that when I chucked my abusive partner over three years ago. I felt so bad for my dc. But time intervened, and gave me perspective and I came to realise that my feeling that way was part of the process. That it was more about me and my interpretation of how the break up would affect the dc, rather than the reality.

The truth is, my dc were and are fine. Their revoltingly abusive father has not bothered with them for over two years now and that is just fine by me.

We three are such a strong team, a proper little family. We have made countless happy memories without him in the last 3 years. Never worry about that, you are the most important person in their lives and the memories you make will be dear to them for the rest of their lives.

TheFormidableMrsC · 14/12/2016 22:20

The OP on here struck very many chords for me. I was married for 11 years before my now ex-h decided he wanted to be a father all of a sudden. He had been SD to my daughter since she was 2. I really didn't want another baby, I was in my 40's and we had a nice life, DD growing up etc. So, he tampered with contraception and I fell pregnant. I had DS at 42. It was clear very early on something was wrong. By 2.5 he was referred for assessment for ASD. At that point, my "DH" decided he was leaving. Found out he'd been having a long term affair with a woman I couldn't stand who had literally just been widowed. DS is now 5. He is diagnosed. Those two arseholes have spent the last three years making my life an utter misery. It's a long and awful story. However, at 47, I am now a single mum on benefits, having given up everything for my husband, my career, my financial security. He literally cut us off without a backward glance. Pays sod all maintenance while living a profligate lifestyle with OW, new cars, holidays etc. They have gaslighted, abused, I have been assaulted, I can't even begin to describe the ordeal I have been through. I have had to stop his contact with DS because of severe emotional abuse and accusations levelled at me. I could go on and on. HOWEVER, am I better off? Gosh yes! Had I known what a prolific cheat my husband was (and I had NO idea), I would have ended the marriage long before his exit affair. I later found out he had severely abused my DD who didn't tell me out of fear. I found out about abuse of children from previous relationships. He ripped off my family to the tune of tens of thousands of pounds. OW thinks she's got a prize, and I just laugh at her now. There is something really wrong with both of them and they totally deserve eachother. On a positive note, It has meant that I have been able to parent my son alone, he is a fabulous little boy, high functioning and confident...that would never have happened had my ex been here. My DD is like a different person now. Our house is calm, I no longer have to worry about his ludicrous behaviour that impacted on us so severely. Long term counselling has helped me realise how abusive my marriage actually was. I was awarded 100% of the marital assets in court and now have a chance to move and rebuild my life. It has turned out to be the best thing that could have happened to me. However, what does gall me is the fact that he never really wanted a baby, he never really wanted to do anything, he just wanted his cake and eat it and has left me to pick up all his shit and I will now have to be linked with this prick one way or another for the rest of my life.

Yet despite all of this, last week he told me that I had to "start putting DS first". Seriously. What a complete and utter waste of skin and oxygen he is.

vonny81 · 14/12/2016 22:41

Aww Mrs C you make my premature ejaculating excuse for a man sound not so bad!
I think you just hit the nail on the head. I've not read all the replies in this post but one thing I think we should all focus on, instead of sobbing (that goes for me anyway) think of how miserable the twat made you feel in the relationship and thank our lucky stars for the men that have done a runner otherwise we would be said here crying for a different reason, in silence and suffering, trying to hide it from our babies.

This always happens to me on a daily basis, I go to bed feeling like Oprah Winfrey or something and then by morning I'm a crying mess!!

Newbrummie · 15/12/2016 09:29

There's always somebody worse off, it seems Mrs, you might be the worst story I've ever heard. For me now it's just a case of I can hold my head up, he can't. That's the best it's ever going to be isn't it

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