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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Why do they have the right? Why is it fair?

124 replies

g059902 · 11/12/2016 21:18

How is it then men have the right to be...a part of/the leader in creating a family; a home; becoming a step parent and creating a bond with that child; persuading and promising to "always do the right thing" and be sure they work as part of a partnership through all the good and bad times that come with starting a family; be present at a women's most vulnerable, emotional and intimate moments of giving birth and bringing a life into the world and then just decide to leave.
I understand that are always factors that are to be taken into consideration, however, generally on the whole, when there was "true" happiness, but things get a bit rocky, how is it men have the option and think it is "normal" and acceptable to just leave? I am not talking about just my own circumstances, it happens all the time. You hear of men just leaving and as in my circs, I imagine it is a common theme that they will use any excuse, any reason, any flaw to somehow justify what they have done. Women since the age of time and probably for the rest of time, have been left "holding the baby"; managing the household; finances; ensuring their children are happy, as much as they can be when this happens; dealing with schools; doctors; appointments; illness; sleepless nights etc etc etc and all the while men think it is somehow ok, or justifiable to do this . And furthermore, take pride in creating a new life.
I just do not get it and I also do not see why they should be allowed to simply opt to do the part time dad thing and again, this be ok. When did this become so accepted and just a part of life that people need to get over?

This is not the life I wanted for my babies and neither do I think I should have to accept it just because that's a decision he has made. People around me say "he's too young" (hes 6 years my junior, early 20s) and he will realize his mistake one day; he wont ever get back this time; etc etc etc it still does not make it either justifiable or acceptable. However, society says it is and legally, it is. There is no moral justification to what I see as something that is probably the most important thing in life to be cast aside like a one night stand or left over food.
Why should I accept that my ex has decided that "there were aspects of my personality" he didn't like, and clearly he wasn't prepared to be the partner I was to him and help me to be the best version of myself and so ducked out of "our family" and within 24 hours into a new relationship to ensure that any opportunity that "could have" been was certainly not going to ever be.

So lets say things were bad (at the time we argued, a lot, I had PND and he was not engaging in the family unit as he should do but instead focused on his own wants and needs out until early hours, lack of engagement with the children lives; lying about where abouts and money; not supporting me as the bread winner when it was my time to work), someone decides they cant be bothered to put up with the arguments and leaves, fine (well not really but can be worked on), but surely, in the majority of these situations after the heat has died down as parents; adults; people who were apparently "in love" only a few weeks ago, it would be "normal" to allow what is meant to be, be. But, not here, here we have someone who has forced a situation and then moved in and on with someone else immediately, with no thought about what was a family unit.
But... this is acceptable, and I am just to get over it and on with life. Not only has my heart been broken, but my family unit, the life I created for my children has been shattered and will never be what it should be. My baby will never ever grow up having memories of climbing into bed on a weekend morning and cuddling/laughing; she won't have the Sunday afternoons of just lounging out after an activity or walk in the morning playing with daddy while Mummy cooks a roast and prepares for school and the work week; excitement on the preparation to Christmas and family holidays etc and all of the other cherished memories a child will hold on to. This person has managed to define, his; mine and my 2 children's lives and all that is to be done is move on and get over it.
How? How do you accept the fact that someone has been allowed to firstly do this, but secondly fail to give the family/a relationship any opportunity to either exist or not?

Why should women accept this? Why is this ok? And why should I now have to live without a section of my children's lives because of someone else's decision?

There are legal rights in place to protect absent parents who are fighting to be a part of their children lives, but what about for the parents that have been well and truly screwed over; abonded and left holding all the responsibility; the pain etc etc.

This is not fair on my children or I and for the many thousands of other families that go through this. The one thing in life that should be a serious commitment and not thrown away at the drop if a hat is a family and it is the most common thing that happens.

Its one thing to accept a relationship breakdown, fine these happen, but to disregard what should be something so pure and true without no second thought, that relationship and family unit, how is this ok on a moral level if nothing else!

OP posts:
SandyY2K · 12/12/2016 12:48

If he got into a relationship 24 hours later, I'd assume it was already going on while you were together or that he had checked out of the relationship long ago.

The problem is that many men (and women) are really not parent material. They are so selfish and even when they claim to love their children, their actions don't support their words.

HappyHappyHappy1 · 12/12/2016 14:36

OP, can I just say thank you so so much for writing this!

I completely agree with every word you have said.

My unborn baby (because of his "father" will not have the chance at a family unit because of his "fathers" selfish choices...his problem? He sees it as "my dad did it to me and I'm okay", so he gets to walk away guiltfree!

g059902 · 12/12/2016 14:36

sandyY2K

Absolutely I have no shadow of doubt in my mind that it was going prior to his physical departure.
Your right with thst being a problem, but then it goes back to the original point...the parent (male or female) who is then left has no option but to be parent material. Personally, my children are my life and i cant bare to be away from any aspect of their world that I have single handedly created so I don't see any of the hard work as an issue its part of my role I actively chose to take on. If I had choices id be happy with the days out and the odd few hours here and there but nonetheless these harder jobs are a part of being a parent and so I embrace them. But the point is, that the option is 1: Rarely taken up by a mum and 2: If it is, regardless of circs, the mother is Ade to feel outcast etc etc. But it is easy enough and simple enough for men to do that and not have any repecution, but infact find happier lives and still get the easy job with any "left over" children. I and it shouldn't and its wrong.

OP posts:
dontknowwhatcomesnext · 12/12/2016 14:43

It's nearly always the man that goes. I'm in my fifties, wide circle of friends of all ages and I know only one woman who left a marriage, and two couples who agreed to split with no one else involved. I've done a quick tot up of the breakdowns because the man left and I got to 35 and gave up counting.

Yup. Similar stats here too. I think it is very, very difficult to get to your 50s as a women and remain uncynical about male entitlement/selfishness issues, though I take the point that it may just be in the entitled, middle class, London-centric area in which I find myself. I often think that if you don't consider yourself a feminist in your 30s, just wait until you get to your 50s and 60s and see what you think then when the women around you are getting screwed over left, right and centre with respect to childcare responsibilities, work and parent carer pressures. And, of course people are individuals, blah, blah, blah, but god knows it's not even close-ish re who is getting left with the primary responsibility for, well, just about everything having to do with family.

Ratonastick · 12/12/2016 14:50

My xP changed his mind. Changed his damn fucking mind when DS was 6 months old. So he fucked off out of our lives because he thought it would be easier for me! Not a penny in maintenance either. I wouldn't believe it if someone told me the story but here I am.

And I have been judged and sneered at for 14 years as a single mother who works full time. I've even been asked why I had a child when I wanted such a high flying career. Ha! One of us has to keep DS in lego and crime eggs. And, now, when he finally reappears I am supposed to suck it up because he has "missed so much". He can just fuck off!!!!!!!

God that feels better.

g059902 · 12/12/2016 15:03

And then when parents react to the circumstances presented to them, in this instance tale as old as time, man meets women, fall in love, create a life, man fucks off realises years later that's "he's" missed so much and seeks to create a relationship with child(ren)...women reacts as any normal women woukd, and we are the ones that are not putting the children's interest first.

Ohhhhhh....thats ok then. He didn't and hasn't and probably won't do the right thing by the children, but the parent that's been left...they defo should. 2 wrongs don't make a right but, if the partner that left managed it properly and worked at it then these issues of building relationships with kids and resorting to courts and csa etc etc wouldn't need to exist.

I think if there was anyway to sanction such behaviours, it would be to measure the attempts or "trying"...i guess then would come the question what is deemed as suitably trying and suitable attempts and of course if someone just does not love someone then what is the point...but then there are still proper and correct ways to deal with those circs too. Basically,what should not be done is what typically men, but some women, do day in and day out and it has no immediate consequences for them at least. Until of course we find ourselves in a society surrounded by broken homes, leading to things such as (this is from a recent study that I actually don't agree with but can't ignore these studies I suppose) poorer education; emotional in balance,higher crime rates, younger pregnancies....oh wait a minute...let me look around...is that not where we are now! It's just not good enough or acceptable.

OP posts:
HappyHappyHappy1 · 12/12/2016 15:24

I feel like I should feel "lucky" that he's left me now rather than after the baby is born, however I'm not feeling rather "lucky" at all!

I'm also told "your baby won't know any different as his dad wasn't ever there", but il know! Il know he should have been there...when he goes to school seeing his friends dads picking him up & his poor little heart breaks all because "daddy" would rather have sex with numerous girls than make the relationship work for all of us.

jeaux90 · 12/12/2016 15:59

My daughter rarely asks about her father now. Last time she saw him she was two. So no she doesn't feel at all worried about not having a dad pick her up at school etc. She's almost 8. She sometimes says she wishes she had a daddy because then I could take her to school and pick her up. I challenged that in her and said mummy would still have worked and had a career and she still would have had her child minder do that. I wanted to stop that expectation in its tracks. I am determined to bring her up not to accept that norm that that's what women do because quite honestly I have experienced and read enough to know that often the sahm gets royally shafted. I would rather be a single parent and financially independant any day of the week.

qumquat · 12/12/2016 16:08

I think a lot needs to change before 50:50 becomes the norm. XP and I both went part time after my maternity leave and shared the primary carer role. We now have 50.50 care. Where the woman was very much the primary carer this is a lot less likely. I think the division of care for the children after divorce often reflects how it was pre divorce. This is bad for both mothers who are left with all the work and fathers (those who were committed to their kids but devoted their time mainly to earning) who end up only seeing their kids every other weekend.

qumquat · 12/12/2016 16:14

I hope I didn't come across all 'what about the menz'. It's more that the whole structure of society is geared towards women being the primary care giver and that needs to change before 50.50 care will ever become more than a rarity.

Ratonastick · 12/12/2016 17:53

qumqat I get your point BUT for that to work both parents need to stay committed to the roles. The reality is that women are the primary caregivers and remain the primary caregivers while men are the primary earners and..... fuck off over the horizon while paying the bare minimum/nothing at all. And the woman is left holding the baby in all senses of the phrase.

Like many others I have cried with the fatigue of single parenthood. I have worried myself stupid about making ends meet. I have thought endlessly and deeply about the impact of XPs actions on my darling DS who is the light of my life. XP hasn't done any of these things. He bleats on about his rights but completely fails to grasp that, as a parent, you don't have rights you have responsibilities.

It all goes back to the original premise of the thread. Why is this fair?

tallwivglasses · 12/12/2016 19:37

This needs to be a MN campaign. There needs to be greater awareness of how many men are not contributing financially, often hiding their true earnings and claiming to be poor while driving around in flashy cars and going on fancy holidays.

The rest is down to education - it should be socially unacceptable to just walk away from your family.

I'm still raging. After ex didn't bother to see his son in hospital I texted - 'if I had a quid for every time someone's asked when you're coming to visit, I'd have more money than I ever got in maintenance'. He hasn't replied.

SemiNormal · 12/12/2016 19:48

There needs to be greater awareness of how many men are not contributing financially, often hiding their true earnings and claiming to be poor while driving around in flashy cars and going on fancy holidays. - can stick my ex in that catergory, had a phone call from CMS earlier in fact saying that he's now on benefits so they'll be able to take money from that (I've not had a penny for years), I should be getting the grand total of £3.26 a week, but it'll take 8weeks for them to sort it out. His 4th baby from the 4th partner will have been born by then so assuming that will be cut to about £2.10 or something, not even enough for a pack of fucking socks or a school dinner!

Newbrummie · 12/12/2016 20:27

It makes me laugh when people say but you end up with the better deal in the like ..., fuck off do you. My cousins ex literally walked past her at the shops with his new family for years, never bought her so much as a birthday card, no child support, no visits nothing. Who did she want to spend her new babies first Christmas with, her absent dad. It is a joke

Newbrummie · 12/12/2016 20:28

I blame the new girlfriends. If every woman said no you will do the right thing by your first kids before I allow you to fuck me none of this would happen. Women are each other's own enemy

SkyblueAnnie · 12/12/2016 20:33

I think compared to some of the stories on here I am fortunate because my ex is contributing financially and is being very fair in our financial settlement.

In some ways this does make it feel like he feels he has done his bit as long as his maintenance is paid and he picks the kids up on time for his weekend. My frustration comes from the fact that it takes more than this to raise a child.

Having kids together doesn't necessarily mean that a couple should stay together but I do think it means they should try to make the relationship work rather than just moving on to a shiny new relationship that is always going to seem more appealing than the day to day grind of family life.

I am still trying to work through my anger and disappointment at being treated as though my marriage was a disposable inconvenience.

I can't begin to imagine how I would feel if my ex was abandoning their financial obligations too.

Failure to pay adequate child support should be dealt with the same was as tax evasion or benefit fraud with criminal sanctions if necessary.

A man who walks away from his family has questionable morals but a man who avoids paying for his children is utterly despicable

g059902 · 12/12/2016 20:35

For me not's even about the money. I mean yeah of course they should pay, that's a given, but if somebody can't be bothered or doesn't understand the whole point of paying for their child then I just think don't bloody bother hen. Keep your money if its that important to you, clearly they need it more and think their innocent child will just be ok because they 'love' them. Ahh ok, when they need food/milk or nappies the left parent can say its ok that your hungry, because your dad loves you! Nah your alright mate, if you don't understand the whole reason for going to work for your children then go to work for yiur new Xbox game instead. It's pathetic nd if rather not get into thst argument there are bigger battles to be fought and that is the OP.

OP posts:
fruitbats · 12/12/2016 20:52

I have been a single parent and know how very hard it can be.
The alternative situation would be men saying that they are leaving and taking the children with them. How many of us would agree to that?

I don't really agree with the idea of sunday being 'mummy cooking a roast and preparing for school and the work week ahead'. That just reinforces the stereotypes imo.

SkyblueAnnie · 12/12/2016 21:05

I agreed with a pp who said we end up with the better deal because for me that is true. It's a kick in the gut to know my ex is enjoying nights out and weekends away whilst I am home with his kids but I would rather have that than not have my kids.

I spent my 20's having fun knowing that the one thing I wanted was to have a family. I don't envy my ex his lifestyle I am just sad and disappointed he would rather do that than enjoy family life.

I appreciate that's not the same as having an ex who would actually ignore his children in favour of his ' new family '. It takes a special kind of shit to do that so I understand your anger.

I also agree that in some respects women are our own worst enemy because if we all had higher expectations of men they wouldn't get away with such poor behaviour.

I was once the new girlfriend and without wanting to go into too much detail I fell in love with him partly because he was such a good dad and made sure that everything about our relationship and ' new ' children took his existing child into account.

That's partly why I feel so let down now

g059902 · 12/12/2016 21:31

fruitbats I was just using that situation as an example and am just trying to demonstrate that in our society children grow up without those memories of family life.

OP posts:
g059902 · 12/12/2016 21:38

I wouldn't my children all day everyday for anything in the world. I wouldn't dream of behaving in such ways, I cant stand to be without my children for a few hours let alone days or weeks. They are my purpose. And given the choice even they could always be my first choice Obvs. I think someone mentioned earlier, this is clearly an education piece, both at home and socially. But doesn't change that leaving a family unit is seen as the solution rather then no choice but to.

OP posts:
WhooooAmI24601 · 12/12/2016 21:44

DS1's Dad walked out when DS1 was 5 months old. 11 years later DS1 is incredible. Genuinely incredible. Ex has missed out on 11 years of watching this crazy, happy, kind and bright boy grow up. I don't give a shit what he's paid or who he's fucked, he's lost out on the biggest gift on earth. I pity him every day missing out on this. It's been the making of me, meanwhile Ex is still exactly who he was 11 years ago, pissing about in bars on Saturday nights, eyeing up young women thinking the grass is greener. The grass is greenest where my children are, that's for sure.

FeelTheNoise · 12/12/2016 22:04

Well said OP! Seriously unfair on the children they neglect and the parents who sacrifice their all for the children who have been abandoned and neglected

nutty123 · 12/12/2016 22:19

Totally agree with everything you have written op.

My ex left me at 12 weeks pregnant. After going through ivf which he said 'he didn't think would work first time'
Turns out he was having an affair for two years previously.
I'm still devastated and feel heartbroken for my little girl. I wanted us to be a family and not just me.
He hasn't seen her for three months now. Too busy with the much younger gf.

Yes I'm bitter and worry about the future and if I can do this on my own.

mrsdigestives · 12/12/2016 22:23

Yep. In cases where the women left and a man had to look after dcs (I know of one, compared to numerous the other way round) he is regarded with much sympathy and looked on as a hero.
While it may seem a woman can protect herself by maintaining a career, it doesn't make it any easier when her dh walks out and she's got to do all the child rearing and 100 percent of everything in the home.
The bar is set way too low. A man who pays maintenance and does EOW is seen to be doing well and the exw is 'lucky' He is not condemned by anyone even if he does literally nothing else in terms of parenting and is significantly better off financially than exw and his dcs.
It's the poverty which affects dcs of single parents most in terms of life chances. Yet the stigma remains with the 'single mum' It's so wrong.