Being unlovable and unloved

[WeAreUglyButWeHaveTheMusic]

I can't come to terms with it.

I get it, I understand it, I know what it means, I accept it. But I can't come to terms with it. I can't make peace with it. I can't switch off wishing it were different. My heart is heavy.

Something happened this year that gave me cause to think I might be wrong, and that it could be different, but it really just served to show that I was right after all.

If you've accepted this about yourself and come to terms with it, how did you do it? Because I can't.

Myuser I've heard of FB being called 'book of face' and it's true it does portray a perfect life. Reality includes things like DCs going through phases, drugery and self-doubt. FB is all happy smiling photos.

EBearhug that's what makes me feel the saddest, I think.

Lilac I think it is completely that. I don't feel jealous of things I see on FB. I don't have lots of 'posting pics of perfect lives' FB friends. There is one family who are always posting inspirational memes and photos of their "gorgeous family" but I know them well enough to know the reality. I'm not daft when it comes to social media

Can I just say that even though you say your children 'don't have a choice' to love you, this is not true. You sound like a really great mum and I'm not just saying that, you've created a bond with your eldest son which has endured during tricky times and you have things in common and can spend time together. Your son chooses your companionship and I'm also sure he really loves you, not out of obligation as his mother, but as someone who cares for him and him for you. You write as if love is one-way between parent and child and it is not.

I'm not saying this to convince you a child's love is the same as a romantic relationship or a deep friendship, it isn't, but I wouldn't discount what your children have to offer you and be open to receiving and acknowledging that, as well as looking for the other things you seek.

That self dislike itself is a barrier, it is true that confidence is what is attractive to other people, not solely your physical attributes.

If you don't believe you have a nice personality or are attractive it's possible that it comes across to people and that's a barrier a lot of people don't know how to overcome. People generally tend to enter into relationships based on mutual interests and yes a spark of chemistry/attraction but believing in yourself is key: I have issues with low self esteem but I know no one else can fix that for me, I can't expect someone to take my feelings away by loving me, or give me new feelings I didn't have before. The quote about feeling completed is misleading, you are meant to feel that the person adds into your life to what you already have

I don't know about anyone else but I don't expect I will ever feel love stronger than what I feel for my kids. The love I have is overwhelming and strong

I think it takes quite a while for friendships to deepen, and you maybe haven't given it enough time. People can be happy to respond to invitations out, but then new people in their lives can fall off their radar if the invitations stop. Can you think of it as a three year project? Just keep channels open and see what develops?

Re the man who went cool: have a think about what "being yourself" meant in that context. Your dream of a man who sees inside you and loves the real you... Are you looking for someone to believe in you even though you don't believe in yourself? A decent man won't want to be in relationship with somebody with low self-esteem like that because it's not going to work. How would it? He says you're wonderful, you think, "no I'm not - what's wrong with him?" Or you feel bad about yourself so you go to him for reassurance but you don't really believe it, so it's like he's trying to fill a cup that never gets any fuller.

Are there things you like about yourself? You might not want to bring up a list in conversation(!), but do you have moments when you think positively about yourself?

Bounty Yes, I see what you are saying about my son. I hadn't thought about it quite like that. We are like two peas in a pod at times!

Myusername I know again, at the risk of finding a problem for every solution, when I first separated from my husband, I was confident. I lost weight (from a 14 to a 10) and had a complete image overhaul. I felt so positive and upbeat about the future. I think that, superficially, my self esteem improved a little situationally, but I couldn't make it stick on a long term, emotional level.

Unfortunately, I met a couple of men who expressed surprise at my confidence. I think they were annoyed that I didn't 'know my worth'. I don't know, I can't really explain it. I'm currently a curvy size 12 hourglass, but with hips and a bum and my experience is that men don't like that. I suppose the answer is to lose that extra weight, tone up!

I feel like I'm running out of options. I really appreciate all the comments and suggestions on this thread, and I'm not being dismissive, but most of them I've done, and many of them I still do. I just don't know how to get out of this negativity, or even whether I should try, or whether I should just work on accepting that this is how things are. Which is what I was originally asking I suppose.

Charlotte I suppose I always feel like 'on paper', I don't look too bad. I probably seem like a reasonably ok 'catch' and I can be funny, witty, and superficially confident but then it's when people get to know me that I fall down, which is what that man saw. I don't know. I didn't moan about myself. But I'm aware on occasions of emotionally 'running away' from people even whilst I'm talking to them so that I don't impose on them.

I don't ever seek reassurance from people though but I think I probably sabotage things or 'try to put people off' without always being aware of it. Even whilst trying to make a connection. I know you're all saying is true on an intellectual level, but on an emotional level, I can't process it. I find it quite overwhelming and I want to run away from it.

I suppose it boils down to I worry that I'm not good enough for decent people I genuinely want in my life (platonically and romantically) and I worry about being settled for by less genuine people.

I don't know how to change that, tbh.

You are self sabotaging!
And CBT with a very good counsellor can really help this, I assure you of it.

That is absolutely not true about the figures men like or don't like. Giant bottoms are hugely sexually attractive right now and women are having SURGERY to get them. Men like boobs. Some men like bums. Some men like long legs. Some men love soft skin, lumpy or bumpy they like the warmth and comfort of a woman's soft curves. Almost all men like sex.

What they usually don't like is having compliments rejected and a woman who feels unhappy with herself and wishes she was different.

Your option is to truely confront all those demons and behaviours and focus on getting rid of them. Fight for yourself

How I see things is that the bad shit took enough of my life it's not having any more of it. Yours too

Have you considered therapy OP?

I used to feel very similar to what you described in your OP but I managed to learn to love myself with the help of a therapist, who unlocked the part of me that was capable of loving me, but I had locked away due to childhood trauma.

It's very difficult to open that part of yourself on your own, that's why therapy exists, think of it as if you were drowning in quicksand, you wouldn't be able to pull yourself out but with help from someone else it is possible. They can't come in and pull you out -but they can give you the tools to do it yourself.

I think everyone else has offered some great advice and insight so I won't repeat it. What I will say is, if you need a chat just message me. Also, if you're down south I'm always happy for new friends.

Myusername Again, I know... I don't reject compliments, I know to say, "thank you", smile and accept graciously. But I don't believe them. So whilst I wouldn't be outwardly dismissive, the more someone compliments me, the more I withdraw from them. It's not a huge issue as it doesn't happen very often... And yes, I should think that about the bad shit taking enough of my life and not having any more of it. I'm just finding it hard to stick to at the moment!

maggie I've had lots of different counselling over the years. I'd have to pay to go private now (although I might try self referring again after what I've read on here...) and I can't afford to. I can't afford the time really, or the money at all! But I've got to try something because it I can't do it on my own.

I think I was hoping to find a solution that didn't require counselling/therapy tbh.

Thanks, Still. No, not down south, but I might take you up on that.

You can tell when someone doesn't believe the compliment, even if it's not outwardly rejected, there is body language to consider here and I can tell from someone's face and body language whether they are internally rejecting something or not. If someone gives me a lovely compliment then I will blush and say thank you but I will also give one back, and I make sure my body language is open and responsive And genuine. But I can tell if I have made someone uncomfortable with it, and if perhaps it's a creepy compliment to me, I may say thank you but my face will tell a whole other story about that.

And yeah, then you withdraw from them so that confirms your rejection of them and their compliment. So you are the barrier. And you need to find that fight and that fire in you to go against all your instincts and blaze a new trail for yourself

Well you could read some self help again, and you could work on things online for free but fundamentally you have to WANT to do this and believe you can. Or nothing will work for you.

It's like learning to drive... if you never have faith in your ability you might never pass your test no matter how many times you have lessons. So counselling hasn't worked because you have not believed in it and yourself that you can change. You've gone through the motions

Myusername ah crap. You're right.

This is what you need to fight for. Ok it might be painful but it cannot be more painful than how you feel now. Fear is holding you back and I know you can see the lovely scenery 'on the other side'... we all all rooting for you to jump that fence!

*cliche overload

I think I'm struggling with the 'believe' bit of doing it.

But no, it couldn't be more painful than how I feel now. I remember someone telling me once that they started therapy, not because they thought that it would work as such, but because they couldn't bear feeling like they did any longer and not having therapy was no longer an option.

I suppose that's where I am.

It sounds like a good option.

I asked if there were things you liked about yourself. Was that the question you were answering? It sounded much more like you were thinking of things other people might like about you. Have you done things you're proud of? Are there aspects of your personality you like? I like puzzles. Crosswords, jigsaws, whatever. I think most people might that a bit different, but I like that my brain works that way. Anything like that?

Hm, Charlotte, well I thought I was answering that question... but I see now that I was just thinking about things that other people might like.

Ok... um...

This is hard. I don't know what I like about me. I am kind, and I try to be kind. But I'm not a walkover. I would be there for anyone I know at 3am, but I don't tolerate shit from people. I'll give a second chance, but it someone take the piss a second time, then that stops. I like that about me.

Other than the things I've already mentioned, I am really struggling

I'll have to think about it.

We are ugly - I had private therapy at a cost of £550 - it was structured over a certain number of sessions so I knew when it would end and how much the total cost would be.

I don't know your financial situation but if you were in any way able to afford something of this nature it could really be worth it. I really think it is very difficult to sort out deep seated problems on your own.

PM me if you'd like any more details.

Hmm I can see why that upset you - it's like life is choosing to act out your worst fear.

However, two things come to mind immediately:

1. That thing where men chase and chase and then suddenly go cold often happens, unfortunately. My first BF did it, for instance - I never found out the reason - it didn't really make sense. So it might have been just his weirdness, not anything to do with you. I'd be curious to know what your friend's take is; also is there anyway you can not fall out with her over it? That seems a real waste.

2. Presuming for a minute that you are right that people go off you when you open up, that's possibly less to do with them being horrified by your real self, and more to do with them picking up, subconsciously or otherwise, on the fact that you are uncomfortable being open, and responding to that. I think people are often very quick to respond to someone else's nerves, and often without realising they are doing it. Of course, I'm aware that doesn't wholly help, but it may mean the changes you need to make are not as huge as you think. Maybe the radio is working fine, you just need to fiddle with the reception.

The guys who expressed surprised at your confidence were twats - this is a well known technique called negging - basically you get women to sleep with you by insulting them. The guy from this summer thought you were attractive, so I think we can safely assume this is not the problem.

Also I like Charlotte's question. I've phrased it as though it's all about men, but really what do you like about yourself is a much more important question.

And I think your answer is a pretty good start. More things will occur to you as life happens.

maggie Financially, it's probably not a great time. I could probably manage that though. Tbh, I probably can't afford not to, as it's affecting every aspect of my life now, including work. Thanks, I'm doing 101 things at the moment, but I'll try and PM you later.

pseudonymph Yes that's exactly how it felt. So to respond... I wouldn't say he was chasing, it was very natural and 'innocent'. I wasn't even sure that he did like me until he emailed. There was an event this year that we were both involved in and we spent more time together as a result of that. We were just spending more time together within a smaller group and a lot of it was little more than he and I gravitating towards each other when going to the pub and stuff like that. He wasn't complimenting me or 'pursuing' me or anything. It was just a natural developing closeness.

My friend and I have had to agree to disagree and he is now a closed topic of conversation, which really hurts because I still feel the need to process it. But I can see her point because it wasn't helpful to me and was frustrating to her. She has no more explanation for what happened than I do, but she feels very much that he is a good man who genuinely liked me and had genuine feelings for me and all that. She does think that perhaps he saw that I am quite vulnerable and backed away because of that. She thinks I ought to take the above as positives from the experience. I can't. She feels I'm being very disingenuous to a lovely man. I'm angry with myself because I feel I've allowed myself to believe something was possible when deep down I 'knew' that it wasn't.

How on earth can negging be a successful ploy? Why on earth would you sleep with someone who insulted you!

Charlotte Actually, your question made me realise that I've lost touch with myself a little bit. This time last year, I'd have been able to answer that question much more fully.

I think it's time I collected my thoughts and made some preparations for entering next year with a view to getting things sorted out.

I think your friend's take on the situation sounds like something you shouldn't write off. It's good you've decided not to talk about it more, because that sounds like a friendship worth hanging on to.