Being unlovable and unloved

[WeAreUglyButWeHaveTheMusic]

I can't come to terms with it.

I get it, I understand it, I know what it means, I accept it. But I can't come to terms with it. I can't make peace with it. I can't switch off wishing it were different. My heart is heavy.

Something happened this year that gave me cause to think I might be wrong, and that it could be different, but it really just served to show that I was right after all.

If you've accepted this about yourself and come to terms with it, how did you do it? Because I can't.

Do you live somewhere busy or more out of the way? I am wondering if you were somewhere with a string community whether t hat would help?

Sadly op you are far from alone. Another one here who struggles with making/keeping friends, probably because of a dysfunctional upbringing. I found the TED talk (and other material) by Brene Brown about vulnerability very insightful and helped me a little. It's not a 'fix' but what you were saying about people seeing you as kind and caring but keeping people at arms length, resonated a bit. Off to rewatch it now actually...

Bluntness You're right, I probably am being a bit self pitying at the moment but, as I said, a couple of things have happened this year that have really brought it to a head.

It's something I've always struggled with, on and off, and I always just thought that one day it would sort itself out, one day I'd make a friend who 'stuck', one day I'd meet a man who was just the right fit for me, one day I'd just find that I was at peace with it all. But I'm not.

And I don't want to sound disingenuous but, as someone else pointed out, children aren't really a substitute for adult relationships, whether platonic or romantic, because the dynamics are so necessarily different. My son is nearly 18. We have similar tastes in films, similar political/social views, similar hobbies and interests, or at least ones with enough of an overlap for us to be close and be able to still sit on the sofa under a blanket watching a film with a beer. He's a mature and sensible lad. But his whole life is ahead of him. He goes up to his room afterwards and chats to his friends on Skype or whatever. My relationship with him is one thing, but it is no substitute.

You are right. I am lucky that I have my children, my health and a job (although things are very tough at the moment, as they are for so many) and it is important to be grateful for what we do have.

But even while I feel grateful and I laugh with them, I feel the pain and the sadness.

Phil I live in a fairly busy suburban area. It's not an area where I will find 'my tribe' in some respects. But there are a lot of people and I know a fair few people. I think a lot of it is that I feel on the periphery of things/people/friendships/groups, like people think I must have other friends elsewhere I'm close to. I just don't. And I'm wary about trying to take things further with people because I feel people 'tolerate'/'don't mind' me rather than actively 'like' me.

doji I'm going to look out that TED talk when I have a minute. Yes, I think I keep them at arm's length because I worry that if I reveal my true and 'whole' self (not all of which is 'lovely' and 'kind') people will go off me. It's like being 'lovely' and 'kind' is my Thing and if I let it slip, I have nothing else.

There is one person who knows something of how I feel in real life. She told me that these are dysfunctional core beliefs. But, essentially, this is something that happened this year with someone else, and it devastated me, frankly, so much so that this friend and I have cooled somewhat because she had a very different take on the situation and we became increasingly frustrated by the other's inability/unwillingness to see it from our own perspective.

Hi again, OP. You talk a lot about how other people think about you and how you think they think about you... How about you? Do you know people who you would like to know better? Or is it just a feeling that you're not doing life right?

For me, it was a revelation that some people don't really do friends. I read it in a book, about ten years ago, called something like "Now, find your strengths." One of the strengths was connectedness, for example, and someone with that strength who was very successful in life was quoted as saying she didn't really feel she wanted friends. Until I read that, I'd felt like I wasn't doing life right (which is why I asked). Now, I think I have a lot of connections: nice people at work I enjoy spending lunchtime with, other parents from the DC's school who I enjoy a chat with when school events throw us together.

I do have one good friend. I feel very lucky about that now, although two or three years ago I'd have felt embarrassed to have just the one (and she was a new friend at the time). The way we do friendship is probably pretty unusual, though. We meet up once every two weeks, chat a little about how our lives are - occasionally deep and meaningful, more often superficial - and then watch a film together. Even if something big happens in between meet-ups, we don't usually communicate until our film night!

Anyway, you sound pretty clued up. It might not seem such a revelation to you as it did to me that friendships aren't essential and can be done in very different ways!

As for romantic relationships, can't help you there! I am unfanciable too (at least, according to XH) but a small amount of flirtation is the most I want to do in that direction! I've been in a relationship and I can't think why I'd want to repeat the experience!

I just wanted to say a couple of things. First, there is no way someone who displays the sensitivity and perceptiveness you have here has no loveable qualities. Second, I recognise much of what you say about negative thought patterns. For me, fairly intensive CBT has made big and lasting changes and that is worth exploring, via your gp in the first instance. It is possible to change the way you think about yourself and I think that would help you recognise the excellent qualities you have.

I think there is a feeling that I'm not doing life right, but yes, there are people I wish I were closer to. I have 'friends', but we're just not close, we meet once a week for a hobby and chat and sometimes go to the pub afterwards, but that's it. I know that others in the group meet up outside of this for coffee/brunch/walks but I'm never included. I've instigated similar a few times and they do go, but it doesn't lead to a return invite or enable anything deeper/closer to develop.

I like yhe sound of your friendship, Charlotte, but I do feel like I'd want more because I don't have a close family. I suppose it's that 'connectedness' that I lack and yearn for.

As for the romantic side of things, I think I'd agree that I'm not very fanciable. I'm pretty average looking. Lookswise, I'm the sort of person you you'd like for their personality, which kind of points to the problem.

I think what makes it so hard is that when I was an unhappy child I used to fantasise about the day when adult me would meet someone who'd fall in love with me and see beyond what my parents saw... it absolutely breaks my heart to think that that might never happen and that it looks like I will live out my life never having been loved (by someone who wasn't entirely dependent on me, someone who'd 'chosen' me).

Karlos it is very kind of you to say so, thank you.

As for therapy, I self referred for cbt a couple of years ago but was rejected because I didn't meet their criteria. I have spoken with someone who recommends psychotherapy but I really can't afford it at the moment and i am scared by the warning that it will get worse before it gets better. I can't afford to be floored by it as a single parent with no support. Argh, I know it sounds like I'm blocking but this is what I mean when I say I can feel my options closing down. I've tried/considered so much of it but I can't make it work.

OP

I haven't RTFT

I'' so sorry you feel this way and I understand.

WRT the comments that you keep people at arms length and you referencing your emotionally neglected childhood - have you read about attachment disorder?

If not that may be an avenue worth exploring.

I have. I think it's definitely a possibility. It all just feels like it's too big to tackle.

I also know that reprogramming someone is a very difficult thing to do. I don't know if I have the strength for it.

And then I come back to, what if it's just me. Argh. Just goes round and round in circles in my head.

I've realised that my happiness, or lack of it, comes from my mind in a way I can't control. For example, sometimes bad things happen but I'm feeling relaxed so it's ok. Another day similar things happen and I feel 'hyper' aware and distressed. I'm a lot more likely to feel useless, jeolous and suspicious. Paranoia that no one likes me.

Accepting that this is the way I am has helped. When I feel more positive I try to make more plans, when I don't I actively think what would the positive me do / say. I don't talk about this in RL, but it fits with my DSs SEN so prob same thing.

This may not help, but thought I'd share in case it does. It sounds as though you do have relationships that can be good (e.g. with DCs).

WeAreUglyButWeHaveTheMusic - don't I remember you well? It was the Chelsea Hotel, wasn't it?

That aside, I haven't had time to read the thread but I want to send you . I know that feeling and I know that lives can change.

Hugs.
I feel your pain. I had a rough time up until the age of 18 with my Dad openly telling me how unlovable I am. I have built up a pretty hard exterior but am seriously jelly inside. Met my husband at 18 who made me believe that I was the most amazing thing in the world. Everyone would comment on how he worshipped. This new feeling of being adored made me overlook years and years of actions that were anything but adoring. If I'm being honest I actively stuck my head in the sand and became more and isolated and dependent.

My dad died 2 years ago-really struggled with that. I had been disinherited etc at that point. All I wanted was a letter or something explaining or apologising his hatred.Never got it.

Over the years husbands behaviour has became increasingly intolerable, and when I turned round and said I couldn't put up with it any longer, he has wiped away over 20 years of feeling adored with " fine, I don't want you anyway"

That'sit-no explanation-I'm left feeling just like when my dad died. I don't care he's gone- I just wonder what's so awful about me that he needed to hurt me.

Anyway..I've hijacked your thread. Sorry. Just wanted to et you know that you are not alone and rationally I know that people who act like that are the ones who are damaged and don't know what love is. However it is hard to keep the faith at times X

To give some feedback - it does sound like you have a very strong view of how things should be. Perhaps you should let things go, just let things happen. I have one good friend - who I have not known for a long time - because he happened to move in next door

I could make many suggestions, but two ideas spring to mind

First of all - meditation. I do this for 10 minutes every day and I believe it has helped me to reduce the excessive ruminating. Just by focussing on different parts of the body and trying to eliminate random thoughts

Second is joining groups so the focus is on an activity rather than on making friends

Or how about combining the two, and joining a meditation group!

WeAre Ugly (peace and love to LC!!), firstly congratulations on having kind, helpful children who still like to hang out with you in their teens. That is a major achievement, especially as your own parents didn't model a loving family for you. I know it's not the same as adult company, but it is a marker that the people who really know the real you really like you.

Like other people on this thread, I think you are suffering from negative and perfectionist thought patterns - doubtless as a response to your childhood. For instance, I very much doubt that you are not fanciable - even presuming you are not underestimating yourself, people fancy 'average' looking people all the time, otherwise humanity would have died out. They do it because they need someone to love, just as much as you do. The idea that you have to be exceptional in order to be fancied or loved is really sad - it suggests you were always trying to better so your parents would give you the love you needed (and deserved!! simply because you existed, not because of any particular thing you were or weren't), but they never did. Similarly, nobody is all lovely and kind, but the effort that goes into trying to be so and to keep up boundaries that prevent other people from thinking that you aren't is exhausting, and may actually be driving them away.

Anyway, you sound thoughtful and intelligent, so you probably already know this intellectually, the trick is bringing that to bear on your emotions and feelings. I know it's a cliche, but I would really recommend therapy, if there's any way you can afford it. It's designed to create a sort of artificial friendship or relationship, which can then reset your thought patterns and help you to learn new behaviours at a deep level.

Otherwise you might get lucky with friendships and relationships (two relationships and one friendship from four years isn't nothing, so maybe you are thinking over negatively here too? I know I do that - if I'm feeling down I feel completely alone, even when objectively it's not exactly true) but why take the chance?

Do you want to tell us more about what happened this year and upset you, or is that not relevant to the thread?

Maybe worth going back to gp to ask about CBT. My area has introduced a scheme whereby anyone can self refer direct for a number of sessions. It is becoming more widespread. Good luck!

Lilac Yes, that sounds a lot like me too. I 'talk myself down' quite a lot from the anxiety, which means I can cope with the immediate feelings better. But the sadness and overwhelming loneliness are still there.

Tess Indeed Yes, I know they can change and I tell myself that I don't know what lies around the corner, but the truth is that whilst I am open to whatever might be there, I think it will be more of the same.

Julia There is so much in your post that I could respond to, but I'd be here all day if I did in the detail I'd want to. I get it though. And there are definitely similarities between your situation and mine. You are right, it was them, but this is the difficulty I have. These were the people who taught me how to cross the road, to say please and thank you and put me to bed at night. How am I supposed to sift through all the lessons over the years and work out which were right/true/genuine and which were faulty? I guess you must feel similarly.

YetAnotherGuy I like your ideas. I do yoga which has a strong focus on self awareness/mindfulness/meditation and you're right, it really does help. And the hobbies I've done and the one I've been able to stick with are very much 'activity based'. The social aspects of it have to be created, they aren't integral to it. I didn't start either of them with a view to making friends, neither of them lend themselves to it automatically; social interaction yes, but not friendship.

I do have very fixed ideas of how things should be, I think. I don't feel like my expectations are unreasonable though. I can see it in other people around me.

Also, I work in a professional career, although I stick to fixed term contracts of about a year at a time rather than working somewhere permanently, because it feels like what I can cope with. A lot of that is down to feeling like I'm constantly waiting for people to discover that I'm crap/useless and I feel I can only be 'good enough' for a fixed amount of time. Workwise, that feels like just under a year. I always create a good initial impression and work well/hard, but as the weeks/months pass, I assume people can see the 'real me' and i anticipate them not liking/respecting me, so I make the choice to work in this way as I begin to withdraw. This is the degree to which it's affected me.

Karlos Yes, maybe I will do that...

So, ok, you have a job, friends you meet weekly for social outings, do charity work, do yoga, have kids at home. That's quite a lot going for you. A lot of positivity,....

From your posts I don't think this is a matter of you just doing something and meeting the right people, I think it is about how you feel about yourself. You don't think you are lovable and so project that view onto other people, believing they see you the same way you do. The only way to change this is to deal with your self esteem. I know you have mentioned therapy already, but I really would recommend trying some. If you can possibly afford you could go private.

I felt very much like you and a lot of what you say resonates with me. I can genuinely say that apart from my dh I had not a single friend in the whole world. I had pushed everyone away who came near me. I felt as if it was not possible that anyone could want to be my friend or like me at all.

I ended up paying for CBT with a therapist online. I found it much better for me than previous therapy I have had as i got to choose someone who was right for me rather than being given a random counsellor. I also was able to have the sessions over the internet, so could sit at home in my bed with my cats and not have to go to a strange place for it. I am not going to say it was always easy. I haven't suddenly got tons of friends, but I do now feel like I could have some. I hate myself less now and so feel that it is possible that maybe people do like me after all.

You can change this. You don't have to feel this way forever.

You're not unloveable at all. You sound like a really nice, caring, reflective person. Your children love you. You've been emotionally neglected / abused as a child, which is bound to have an impact on your self esteem. Try and focus on the many positive things in your life. Also, maybe try Meetup.com to meet some likeminded folk. Take care xx

Is part of this feeling that maybe you are missing something - you know that concept now of seeing everyone on Facebook and Instagram #lovinglife when really, it's not all that real... and this magical life is just a fantasy, we are all worrying about the same things in life but some people are better at turning images into some kind of projection of a perfect life so it makes you feel like you are missing out on something? That others have what you don't, whereas in reality that's not really true

pseudonymph Hm the perfectionist thought patterns have been mentioned to me before. And I'm definitely feeling negative at the moment!

What you said about the lovely and kind thing and the boundaries is spot on. It is exhausting. I'm so worried about not being seen as lovely and kind that I probably am keeping people at arm's length. The problem, as I see it, is that when I do let my guard down and people see that, it does seem to change how they feel. I feel like being lovely and kind is all I have.

As for what happened earlier this year...

I found I was becoming closer to a man I first met 4 years ago. He is good looking, intelligent, accomplished, confident, friendly, kind... all the things that I felt put him out of my league. Anyway, this year it started to look like he liked me. I'd worked on myself a lot and it seemed to be paying off. Whilst nothing physical happened, other people noticed that we were becoming closer.

Then during the summer, over the course of a week, it all stopped. He emailed me and told me he really liked me and could we meet. We went for coffee and talked; opened up and cautiously shared a bit (not too much). It was lovely. Then we went out for the day/evening with friends, which is when I decided to let down my guard a little bit and just 'be myself'. By the end of that night he'd cooled completely and that was the end of it. Nothing. I know that it was getting to know me better that put him off.

I've seen him once since and whilst he was perfectly friendly and respectful and no different in that respect, the 'connection' had gone. It was like none of it had ever happened. Nothing. We chatted a little during the evening, he hugged/kissed me as he left and said it had been lovely to see me again and that was it.

The whole thing just left me with the feeling that 'someone' was saying to me, "Now do you get it? It's not for you, it'll never be for you."

It isn't even so much him that I'm sad about, it's more about how it's made me feel about myself. I feel like it just confirmed all the things I think about myself.

Jeepers God, yes. To all of that. A lot of it is about how I see myself and I don't see how anyone else could see me any differently.

Bluntness That's what I find so hard about it. I know it could be worse and that, in some respects, I'm very lucky.

Mrs Thank you.

Myusername Yeah, I guess. I know the FB trap so I don't really do it or go on there. I know lots of people who don't have perfect lives in many ways, I do understand that. It's the lovable aspect of it. It terrifies me to think I might die never having been loved.

It's sounds like I'm being disingenuous to ignore my children in it, but I mean people who've got a choice, people who've got to know me and decided I'm someone they care about.

I am also very aware that I might not even recognise it if it happened now anyway and that it could be there in front of me and I still might not know it.

I think what I keep coming back to is that I don't have the personality character that attracts people to me on a deeper level and I don't have the looks/figure that would attract people on a superficial level!

Wish I just didn't care so much tbh.

I am also very aware that I might not even recognise it if it happened now anyway and that it could be there in front of me and I still might not know it.

This. I think it's possible to get so used to not being loved that when it is there, you tell yourself you're imagining it, you're seeing it because you want to, not because it's really thereasy. No point pinning hopes on it, because you'll end up disappointed again. So you end up dismissing it when it really is there, because you just can't believe it any more.