support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh 2

[Lilacpink40]

Hope this works...

[Natsku]

Yeah she doesn't have any contact with them any more, thank fuck. Now she has my OH's family as grandparents/uncles etc. who actually care about us. She's with them tonight actually as our house is not so child-safe right now with the renovation work.

[greencarbluecar]

Oh yes! Let's do it!

Me and dusters in the operating theatre limiting the damage the narc can do to the world while sphinx helps the survivor make sense of the shit next door.

Who wants to be the ever so sympathetic recovery nurse?!

Sounds like a public service to me.

[Mysecretgarden]

crowdfunding would be a good option!

[2012PP]

Hey green.
I'm super sympathetic! I'd definitely do it...
Ds came home today. I miss him so much and hate that he has to go there. He's never with X on their own. Ds never gets any "quality" time doing anything that he needs/wants. He got bought a new toy last time beware there and told me today that it wasn't there this time and he doesn't know where it's gone. He came home in exactly the same clothes he went to school in yesterday... I know it doesn't seem like much but no bath , no teeth brushing, take out for dinner again- it's the total lack of basic care I'm so worried about.
Ds was off with chickenpox last week. X had him one day (This will never happen again) and organised for someone else (a babysitter ) to look after Ds! Wtf ???? All bloody day. Ds said person was nice but he'd never met them before and X wasn't there.
X didn't mentions a thing to me. I've not brought it up either.
Am I being too precious? Controlling? ?????

[nicenewdusters]

Sphinx - your post is amazing, it should be a sticky at the top of Relationships along with the "right, I'll say this only once...." (misquote I know) thread that is always there.

[Lilacpink40]

2012 if caring for DC's basic needs, including safety, is controlling or precious I'll take those labels too .

Personally I'd hate to think that my poorly DC was dumped off with a stranger for the day. It's hard as we can't know, or suggest, what ex can do with their time, but if it seems unsafe it can be reported. Others on here have mentioned social services, but I don't know how the process works. Sure others will have suggestions.

[nicenewdusters]

2012PP that's disgraceful that your ex left your son with a stranger (to him). It's not about babysitting, it's wanting to be there with them when they're unwell and vulnerable. No and no to precious and controlling on your part.

As for mentioning it to ex, it's the narc conundrum again. It won't stop them doing it again. They won't see they've done anything wrong. They'll be glad that you're upset. It gives them a chance to slate you. If you insist on having your ds when he's ill that lets ex off the hook. If you let him have him you can't trust him to stay with him if he's ill.

Hopefully your son will vote with his feet as he gets older, by not wanting so much to do with him and not wanting to stay over.

[2012PP]

Thanks pink 💐 I've been told so many times that this I how I am, I've forgotten where reality is.
I am working extremely hard to find it again but sometimes (a lot of time still) I doubt myself 😳. I wish I was the strong woman I used to be. I want Ds to see her. I want her to be his mum!

[2012PP]

💐👌💐a huge thanks dusters. I'm so not sure of myself with this kind of thing.
Do you lot find support in real life??? I've tried talking to my family - they were a bit supportive about the split and every day things but I haven't had any emotional support when I've explained how X is...they just don't seem to get it. 😰

[2012PP]

Ds already says he doesn't want to go & when I tell him he isn't going (because X changed/cancelled) - Ds is happy and says "yeh"... He's only 4!
I wish I hadn't insisted on co-parenting... I thought it was best for Ds to see his other parent....!how wrong could I be.

[2012PP]

Sphinx . Great post. Thank you.
I am going to use that to keep me going along with purple's post, jade and the 3c's.

[nicenewdusters]

2012PP My parents are very supportive, both practically and emotionally. I minimise occasionally because they get very angry and upset on my behalf, and I want to protect their feelings.

Most friends are supportive, to varying degrees. The ones I turn to for advice and somewhere to vent are the ones going/have gone through similar situations. I know they're not judging me, and I don't have to moderate what I say to ensure they don't think I'm crazy/unfair/mean etc.

Wanting to co-parent is the most normal thing. I never thought for a moment my ex would be like he is. I thought after the dust had settled we'd, some way down the road, be able to do the odd joint thing, eg birthdays, a bit of christmas, parent's evening. Just typing that now seems nuts, but I genuinely thought we'd work towards it. But of course only I was working towards that goal. He was working on his victim nameplate.

Something up thread about the often dreadful parents of these men jogged my memory earlier. My ex had a really tough time in his late teens with anxiety etc, and was a heavy drinker. His parents told me one day that one weekend he'd spent the whole weekend in his room, completely drunk, almost beside himself. They called the on-call doctor. She spent some time with him. On coming downstairs she spoke to them and said "You do realise your son is an alcoholic?"

I had tears in my eyes at this point. I asked what they did. They threw her out of the house!! They said how dare she say that, what did she know (WTF??!), he went to work every day. So that was it, nothing further happened. If I think of that young frightened man I feel so sad for him, and so angry at them - willfully ignorant, proud, stupid people.

But I can't help him now. Our relationship turned his life around, then he threw it all away. He now has much less to do with his parents. If it breaks the chain then I'm glad he's not such an influence in my dc's life.

[messeduptotally]

Love this thread, thanks so much for everyone's support. At least I know I'm not the only one and I am reasonable and rational.
I've blocked said 'friends' the last ones that I thought had my back, but fuck them too.
I expect nothing from them or him anymore and will treat them with the contempt they deserve xx

[nicenewdusters]

Good for you messedup. As you rightly say, fuck 'em. One day they may come to realise just how gutless and worthless a friend they've been. But even if they do, still fuck 'em !!

Rock bottom expectations, works for me. Anything above useless is a win

[dungandbother]

Hallo All. Been here since start. Time to join you.

The quote that resonates the most

Dusters
But I can't help him now. Our relationship turned his life around, then he threw it all away.

Today DS is sick. I had a meeting in theory I simply couldn't miss. All my emergency childcare is unavailable.
And I did not make the call to his useless father. Because having to deal with his shit is worse than the fall out from work.

Regarding friends & family
My family don't get it. They think I'm being awkward or difficult and they constantly come up with helpful suggestions and ideas on how to make the situation better. He's done such a number on my whole family. Plus my family approach life in the same way I do - looking for solutions.

I've learnt so much from this thread in a short space of time.
Thank you all

[dungandbother]

Hallo All. Been here since start. Time to join you.

The quote that resonates the most

Dusters
But I can't help him now. Our relationship turned his life around, then he threw it all away.

Today DS is sick. I had a meeting in theory I simply couldn't miss. All my emergency childcare is unavailable.
And I did not make the call to his useless father. Because having to deal with his shit is worse than the fall out from work.

Regarding friends & family
My family don't get it. They think I'm being awkward or difficult and they constantly come up with helpful suggestions and ideas on how to make the situation better. He's done such a number on my whole family. Plus my family approach life in the same way I do - looking for solutions.

I've learnt so much from this thread in a short space of time.
Thank you all

[dungandbother]

So glad to be here, it posted twice

[Natsku]

Good for you messedup you don't need those people in your life or on your facebook

My family is supportive, I never told them about the abuse when we were together but they know all about the shit he's pulled since we've split and they're very emotionally supportive (not really possible to be practically supportive as we're in different countries). Thankfully I have my OH, he has been my main support. Poor guy got dragged into it when my ex was making those child abuse allegations - he accused my OH as well.

[nicenewdusters]

Welcome dung. I'm sad that my quote resonated so much with you. It's been a while since we split, our relationship was mainly good, so that was quite hard to write. Don't like to think that somebody else has gone through similar.

Interesting that work fall out is less of a stress for you than asking ex to help out. Loads of similar examples on this thread, as you've probably seen.

My family were actually the opposite to yours, they thought I was too nice to him, too accommodating. So even though they were/are very supportive, in the end I had to be straight with them. I said that he was still their dad, had a legal and moral right to see them, and that they wanted and needed to see him. Moreover I stressed that it was my life, they had never been through anything similar, so I didn't want to be told "well, if it was me......" They were a bit , but it was really getting to me.

Natsku - your OH sounds like a gem. Why am I not surprised to see that those awful allegations were also leveled at him !

[mysinkingheart]

Just wondering if any of you get the same sinking feeling when they start doing all the right things again..think it's called hoovering but it feels like something more sinister.
Am very low contact with him. Only short facts only emails, grey answers to questions about me or leading into an argument etc which works. But when he starts offering help and wanting to talk about DS (sleeping badly lately) I can see him trying to wheedle back in to my emotional life. Probably shouldn't have talked about it in the flesh. I don't fall for it but I'm not exactly jumping for joy at not being affected either. It's like no man's land btw FOG and indifference. Or like watching the fog rise but only feeling memories of it. Not a happy place, safer but deflated, if that makes sense

dusters so many things resonate it would be too long to explain. When I think of my xh's mum and hiw she still is now I feel so so sad for him but all te while knowing how damaging he was and how he derply distrusted the kindness in my family, like he was envious and wanted to destroy it. Luckily he couldn't ..

[ohforfoxsake]

Absolutely Mysinkingheart. I don't want to talk about the children with XH - to my mind its none of his business. We are the family, me and the DCs. He has no concept of family as he picks them off one at a time and they sit in his flat one evening each a week if they are lucky.

I don't stop him seeing the children. I no longer ask that he makes it fair, engages with them, does things they enjoy with them, takes them away, thinks about what they might like to do etc etc. I just let him have his way.

I don't ask him to look after them on my terms. If I want to go out, I get a babysitter. He has all the children about 7 times a year - he stays at mine one night a month (during term time) and I leave him in my home so I can spend the night with my boyfriend. Thank god he is a good, kind and patient man.

It takes very little for the Narc Parent to be satisfied that they are indeed a good parent.

I've only ever thought about it in terms of being in a relationship with my Narc Ex. I'm really sad to say this, but its only just dawned on me that they are dealing with a narcissistic parent. Does anyone have any advice on being the child of a narcissist?

[Natsku]

OH got fed up with ex calling his phone all the time that he just answered and ex threatened him - demanded our address so he could come attack OH. OH records all his calls though so he has just called the police and reported the threat.

[Lilacpink40]

ohforfox my ex is narc as followed in his DM shoes, I think that's common with narc parents. know one thing we'll all be stopping and that's our DCs becoming narcs. Stop the chain now

[dungandbother]

My delightful narc is also passive aggressive. It's one fucked up mix of Personality Disorder...

I liked his parents (both dead) but their whole extended family dynamics were always odd to me... Ex DF didn't talk to his siblings and didn't like DM siblings except one so they didn't see them. But exDF was a twin - his twin had Downs so I think there were too many ready made excuses.

Ex didn't speak to his brothers.... Oh how I wish my twenty year old self had the foresight to back away!

I will be openly identifying Ex bad traits to our children in order to stop the chain! Well said Lilac.

[mysinkingheart]

Thanks for replying fox
I haven't got to the stage where I don't talk about DS but you're right as that's how he gets to me every time. Comes across as concerned and involved but each and every time it's followed up with some passive aggressive crap. Should have known better yesterday, blaming my hormones.

You're right about narc parents having high opinions of themselves (thinking of exMil). They also have selective memories...hard work for kids when the "adult" rewrites history regularly and goes into a rage when challenged. I haven't got another source if info other than outofthefog as they have a forum where you can share with other people coparenting with narcs too. I've only ever lurked there though.
With my DS my position has been to name the unacceptable behaviour and my feelings about it without criticising the narc in front of him "I'm angry that xmil said that to you and made you cry, that's a humiliating thing to do" that kind of thing. I think it helps them manage when you're not around. He's nine and now says that he prefers to talk to me about his feelings...I just say that he has no obligation to talk to anyone he doesn't feel comfortable with. I know it might sound like a corny self help book but he actually likes to hear things like "you know, you don't have to love her just because she's you're gran. No-one can force you to love anyone. The only rule is you must be polite". Worked so far but then she's poison but not physically dangerous like some...
natsku that's shocking and must be really upsetting. He's done the right thing calling the police it's the only solution, people like that are past reasoning with, if they ever were capable of understanding right and wrong, which I doubt. Hope you're both ok