Attempts to talk always end like this!

[brightnearly]

It's happened so many times before, and it happened again this morning:

I did something DH didn't like (in this case, being a little alarmed and apologetic that our letters are on my writing desk - they don't belong there, and the desk was a mess) - he berated me ('It's not necessary to react like this, all I said was that I'm going to sort out the letters, and you shoot up immediately and get all alarmed etc) - I tried to explain myself ('I felt really bad about the messy desk and the fact the letters weren't in the right place") - I'm being told I'm unreasonable.

Then I try to explain that if every reaction of mine needs to be the 'right' one, and correspond to his intentions (and not my perception of the situation), life is difficult for me (and it is, I feel at least as if I'm forever being told of for reacting in the wrong way). I didn't mean any harm by my reaction, at all.

Then he sighs and declares that I don't understand him, that this conversation is going nowhere, that we are just not on the same page, we just don't get on, and that's that. That I wasn't listening to him at all and not taking in his point of view. I then said that I was very interested in his point of view and would like to understand it - but he just dismissed me, saying no, I wasn't!
When I asked him where he wanted to go from here, he said 'that is my decision'.

I cannot say how sad, frustrated, dismayed and horrified I feel; and I wanted to ask: Does anyone have an idea of how to get someone to have a full conversation with you? Any techniques on how to ease someone into taking in another's point of view? In 8 years of marriage I cannot recall a single conversation where my point of view was taken into account properly.
Quite often, attempts at conversations end even more dramatically, with him shouting at me and hiding in the bathroom.

Yes, divorce. He's threatened me with that, too: "If you hate me that much, go and see a lawyer and get a divorce!"

Again - the question is: how to tackle this in such a way that the demon - that would surely be unleashed in all it's horror if served a divorce petition - can be contained as much as possible?

in all its horror

The more you post the more he sounds like a narcissist.
I always make everything about myself. This is a narcissist"s classic projection. He's really telling you about himself.
Read about narcissistic behaviour here
Contact Women's Aid to find out how to leave the relationship safely.
I think it is very difficult to get an injunction. In my experience the police have caught up with emotional abuse but the courts still have not.

What response would you have liked?

That will help you ubderstabd what you need and if he's able to give it.

A criticial part of any relationship is conflict resolution.No one can live with anyone for a reasonable time without some 'complaint'.How you each handle it shows if it's a healthy relationship.

My stbxh was a stonewaller and then moved on to aggressiveness,

Yes, keepingonrunning, that's come to my mind, too.

Women's Aid sounds like a very good idea!

"And then - - when I said that I was sorry I had asked him to pick us up and caused him so much grief - he exploded again and told me that he had been looking for some empathy here, that I said the wrong thing and that I always make everything about myself".

What he did here was projecting; he was really describing his own actions here. Its yet another tactic in the abuser's arsenal. This is really all about him.

So sorry, I had posted before all the updates so not meant to sound trite.

I know how you feel, the unpredictable nature has you walking on eggshells.I don't believe it can be fixed but do what you have (write a letter etc) so you feel you have done whatever you can before ending the marriage.

God - just read your last post. He sounds absolutely horrible!

Start to think carefully about your future; finances, house situation, job possibilities etc. (Don't forget that he will have to pay maintenance - you might not be as badly off as you think).

You may not feel that you are able to leave immediately, but unfortunately I don't think that it's healthy for you to continue like this.

Sorry to hear you are going through this. I was in exactly the same situation in my marriage. My ex was very emotionally abusive and I stayed with him for similar reasons and because he had destroyed my self-esteem. He was over a foot taller than me and if I ever disagreed with him he would corner me and shout in my face until I backed down. It took years (16) for me to snap but I finally did after seeing him do the same to our daughters. I can honestly say that although it was difficult, the financial and other worries were not as bad as I feared. Yes it's difficult to manage on one wage but I get child maintenance and I manage. I am renting a smaller house but all of this is a small price to pay for emotional stability for myself and my daughters. Good luck and be strong.

The scary thing is the kind of worst case scenario...I'm tied to him, and yes, I probably would be entitled to quite a few things (at least, until the children are 18).
But if he wanted to run his family in the ground, he could - he could get sacked on purpose - no more maintenance. I could not afford the mortgage on my own, so the house would go (I know he might be liable to keep paying the mortgage for a while, but what if he claims he cannot afford it?).

Not to mention the grief that can be caused by slander and general difficult behaviour....

Search for 'grey rock technique'. It could be vey useful to employ sooner or later.
You might have to play the subservient mouse role in the short term for your own protection, in full knowledge there is a lioness roaring underneath.

I understand what you are saying op, and I'm not trying to minimise the difficulties, but unfortunately this is only going to get worse not better.

Have you got anyone you could talk to in real life? Maybe phone women's aid - they should be able to give you some really practical advice.

I would cross one bridge at a time.
If you go grey rock on him, there is a good chance he will move on to toy with some other poor unsuspecting young woman (if he hasn't already).
Slander is very possible. You could inform everyone straight away why you are divorcing him, before he gets in there first. But the reality of divorce is you do lose a lot of contacts, especially his family. They will likely be loyal to him no matter and often the wife gets painted as irrational or crazy. She must be, to divorce such a catch . It's difficult but you will get through it.

There is a lot of welfare support, charitable support and court decisions (if it comes to that) to make sure children do not get made homeless.
It's difficult not to be proud. But this is not your fault.

I must say I don't care if he gets romantically involved with anyone, I really don't.
And I certainly do not lose much by losing contact with his family - MIL has certainly not been a friend, and neither have his siblings (both of whom, it must be said, are not faring well at all with regards to their marriages/love life).

I 'coped' with this for over 20 years. I now have ptsd and an eating disorder having been 'free' for about seven weeks. Don't do this to yourself, please.
No, he wouldn't converse, it had to be his way. I too sounded fake or just said sorry to shut him up, I never meant it. Crikey, at one point I was accused of breathing at the wrong point of a sentence thereby making him misunderstand.
Please get help, don't do what I did and stay for so very long.

You know he will be a right arse to you during the divorce. I think you kind of have to make peace with that, like "The next two years are going to be rough but then I will get the reward of 40 years of calm normal life. The children will have 2 years of seeing me stressed even more than normal and him even more abusive than normal but after that they get the rest of their childhood in calm and normal environment."

I'd see a solicitor asap. I'd also start detaching and observing his behaviour like he was an insect you were studying, all from the basis that you are normal and he is not.

Good post Rabbit

Wooden

He caused stress and unhappiness over a few letter on the wrong desk?

You know and we all know that if it hadn't been that he would have found something else to find fault with. This is no way to live.

Get all financial records in order. Copies of all important documents in a safe place. Bank statements, birth certs, savings, mortgage info, the lot as once you intimate that you're separating you'll have no access to anything. He'll see to that. He's the kind of prick who will put up any obstacle to you living any kind of life away from him.

People like him do not get better and there is nothing you can say or do to make him wake up and realise the damage he is doing to you. The damage is his firm intent and nothing will sway him from it. Please do not give him the opportunity to inflict the same damage on your children because if you do nothing, he will, as sure as eggs is eggs.

Not what you wanted to hear when you started this thread but posters have been where you are and are acquainted with his type. Such people are dangerous to the mental well-being of those around them

Hang on a minute. He made some innocuous comment about letters and you rushed up and started apologising? Why? When he came to collect your was miffed about it being complicated, that's a normal reaction, but he didn't say anything until you started laying iton thick with all the 'sorry I asked you to collect us...' nonsense. No wonder he's exasperated, you sound like exceptionally hard work.

I'm not at all denying that I might be 'hard work' - my main issue is with the cutting short of conversations!

It seems hardly fair to just make a statement like this to your spouse (and I'm sure my DH would wholeheartedly agree with you), and then to just walk away.

Btw Sparrowhawk I would love to know more about why what I did is so exasperating - I actually really don't get it!

Fuck off TheSparrowhawk

Why did you apologise when he mentioned the letters?

TheSparrowhawk WTF?