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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

MIL is a narcissist and I have reached my limit

133 replies

5one5 · 10/10/2016 23:47

I am beginning to lose respect for DH because of what he lets MIL get away with. She has had a difficult life (extreme poverty, DV, lost youth) and it is used widely as an excuse in DH’s family for her incredibly rude and obnoxious behavior towards other people. She insults people to their faces – mostly women, because she’s a misogynist, but men get it as well. Because of her hard life she tends to think that she is entitled to luxury and special treatment, and DH and his siblings spend their time running around for her, buying her presents, plane tickets, holidays and going into debt paying for her extravagant life.

How does it affect me? She expects me to behave in the same way as DH: Cooking for her, cleaning for her, giving her the best of everything, telling her she’s beautiful, intelligent, well-loved. Nobody is allowed to tell a story at a family gathering unless she plays some starring role in it. She likes applause when she enters a room and toasts to her during meals. She likes to repeat stories of her youth where she was deemed “exceptionally beautiful” and things that were apparently said to her and fights that were apparently had over her. DH and her other children pretend they pander to her in a tongue-in-cheek way, but I can see that they all take it deadly seriously and that they all become like little minions when she is around. They are afraid of her.

DH excuses his and his siblings’ behavior around her by portraying her as a comical narcissist, as if everybody is in on the joke that she thinks very highly of herself, including her - but it really isn’t like that. There is no irony. She is a bona fide narcissist.

Our wedding day was about her. Our DC’s birthdays become about her. Christmas is about her Or she sits in a corner and sulks until enough people come up to her and ask if she is okay, at which point she will launch a scathing attack on the event, how it doesn’t cater to her at all, and her children including DH will spend the rest of the time with their tails between their legs, not enjoying themselves. Dh and his siblings are performing marionettes who will willingly make her the centre of anything and are constantly leaping around to measure the emotional barometer of the room she is in to avoid upsetting her.

She tries to teach her GC including our DC lines to recite like “I love you Grandma,” and “You are beautiful Grandma.” Sometimes they say it because she repeats it so much (so she likes these GC ) but the ones who won’t repeat it get the cold shoulder.

Anyway it’s all come to a head for me over something on facebook and I can’t look Dh in the eye anymore I am so angry:

There is a close friend of mine who doesn’t buy the applause and the toasting and the everything relating back to MIL, so MIL uniformly hates her. Today this friend looked after one of our DC and posted some pics of DC doing an activity on facebook with my permission. She tagged me in them, so the photos appeared on my timeline. MIL saw the pictures and wrote in a comment underneath how dare my friend have her DGC without her (MIL’s) permission and a series of other comments criticizing my friend and the activity she was doing with my DC. Criticisms completely unfounded and quite insulting.

Next thing I know DH has jumped on the comments tab too and has piled on with MIL against my friend., telling my friend that MIL is right, he agrees and she should be ashamed of herself. I was absolutely shocked

When I got home (an hour after this all happened on facebook) DH was waiting at the door with a guilty face on, ready to “manage” the situation. I was fuming. Dh went into full damage limitation, said he had texted MIL and told her not to post comments like that in the future, and proceeded to beg me to not post anything on facebook and not tell MIL off. He was like a desperate child.

I asked him why he posted in support of such a stupid comment from MIL and he said he wanted to “protect” her. I told him it was MIL attacking other people that was the problem. He said that he thought that MIL was provoking my friend by attacking her, and so he wanted to shut down any potential counterattack on MIL before there was one…

We were supposed to go out for dinner together tonight, the first night we haven’t had the DC for 9 months, but I have come home because I cannot sit across a table from him. I can’t even look him in the eye. He was sheepishly trying to get me to hug him and kiss him but I cannot even touch him for being such a fucking coward.

My life cannot be like this forever, but I don’t know what to do. (And yes I have spoken to my friend and apologized for MIL’s comments.) I am still considering commenting on the status but DH is begging me not to.

OP posts:
LookMoreCloselier · 11/10/2016 12:46

Stand up to her, she will hate you for it, but she will also know that you won't placate her, there is no changing these people though, so you have to then just distance yourself. The only way to please them is to go along with everything they say but it's not worth damaging your own life/mental health in the process. Don't tell her anything about you/your plans as knowledge is power, you can also set your facebook settings so she doesn't see your new posts without the drama of unfriending her. Your DH is more of a tricky one if he is still under the FOG, I would just call him out on it every time he is dancing to her merry tune, explain how damaging to relationships these people can be. Good luck. Flowers Wine

ZazieCats · 11/10/2016 12:49

I would be careful with this one.

You MIL is not gunning for your friend. She is gunning for you.

She wants this to the fight, or the first of a series of fights, in which your DH chooses her not you.

Agree with PP, if you want to keep him, extract him slowly. Don't fight with him. Support him to support you.

My DGM was a similar level of narc, and this was her specialty.

ZazieCats · 11/10/2016 12:56

I do think you need to support your friend though. But along the Michelle Obama lines of "They go low, we go high". Public, Positive support for your friend from either you or you and DH, private grovel and flowers from DH, discuss the exit strategy from MIL with your friend.

My exit strategy would be slowly and gradually back off, avoiding open confrontation, seeing less and less of her, spending less and less on her, until you are all pretty much NC. Start off with reducing time DC spend with her. It could take a while.

liletsthepink · 11/10/2016 12:58

Op, you have to stop the madness. Everyone has their breaking point and now it's time for you to say 'no more of this rubbish'. Block MIL and any other MIL supporters on Facebook. Block her number on your mobile, go no contact and make it very clear that you will not be playing her game any more.

Your DH is a bigger problem because he isn't ready to grow up yet. Tell him that he has to get therapy because you can't deal with him still being like a frightened child any more. Make it clear that his behaviour will damage his children if he doesn't get help to deal with his issues.

pictish · 11/10/2016 14:20

I too am wondering what on earth your friend could have done to warrant such a response from mil and dh. Your dh told her she should be ashamed of herself. Why?

Jinglebellsandv0dka · 11/10/2016 14:43

I'm wondering where the op went?

CalmItKermitt · 11/10/2016 15:03

Yes- I don't understand the "ashamed" comment at all?!

5one5 · 11/10/2016 15:22

I'm here. I'm just in a deadlock.

Friend has said she doesn't care as long as i am happy and that MIL is a bitch which is very gracious of her.
DH and I are still not speaking.
I have unfriended and blocked MIL on Facebook.
DH's comment has disappeared (DH has obviously deleted it thinking MIL won't look back.)
I am still terribly in happy. I still cannot look at DH. Nothing else is happening.

OP posts:
5one5 · 11/10/2016 15:24

DH said that I presume that she should be ashamed of herself for posting pics of our DC on Facebook without the family's permission. But my friend got MY permission, which should be enough but evidently is not enough for MIL. And DH being the coward he is, is joining in her with her. I don't think DH actually thinks the things he has said.

OP posts:
5one5 · 11/10/2016 15:25

I agree with zaiecats that MIL wants a fight with me, not my friend. And is engineering various situations where DH has to choose. And it's evident who he chooses.

OP posts:
hellsbellsmelons · 11/10/2016 15:34

Well I'm glad you blocked.
This is a really crap situation.
I really can't imagine where you go from here.

glitterandtinsel · 11/10/2016 15:43

Just be aware of narcissistic rage and she will twist this round to being your fault. According to my mil the day I married her son was the day I split her family forever.Hmm

AyeAmarok · 11/10/2016 15:46

MIL wants a fight with me, not my friend. And is engineering various situations where DH has to choose. And it's evident who he chooses.

Yep, I think this hits the nail on the head.

RockinHippy · 11/10/2016 15:47

I agree with zaiecats that MIL wants a fight with me, not my friend. And is engineering various situations where DH has to choose. And it's evident who he chooses

In which case, ignore & distance yourself from her as its a fight you cant win & she will manipulate & play the victim every attempt you make to defend yourself, so there is no point in engaging with her at all. She will of course enjoy playing hard done by & how her hateful DIL is robbing her of her DS & DGCs, but for your own sanity just let her.

My DB is a classic Narc too, more so than DM & he played this game for years, using DM like a puppet to play his game, more recently, since losing DM, he has moved onto DF too, though he is at least a little wiser to him.

You cant win, you can only preserve your sanity & back right away.

As for DH, I suggest you tell him its mediation & counselling if there is any hope of saving your marriage. Hopefully he will go along with that & you can find a way forward

Good luck

BeautyGoesToBenidorm · 11/10/2016 16:17

Good god, this is absolute classic textbook narcissism, isn't it? People who use the term loosely would do well to read this thread.

OP, I don't know where to start. Reading what happened and how this poisonous woman expects people to behave made my skin crawl. You've received a lot of good advice on this thread, and I absolutely understand how you feel towards your DH right now - he and Mummy Dearest sound completely enmeshed.

Your friend sounds lovely. I'm sorry I have nothing constructive to add, but I couldn't just read this and run Flowers I know a woman who is effectively your MIL in training - she just doesn't have GC yet. She kicked her scapegoat eldest DC out just before Christmas and had them put into care, the other golden children are still with her, til they piss her off anyway. She works in a caring profession with children. Behind closed doors, she's a monster like no other.

Out of interest, how does your MIL present to people outside of the family? Is she charming, socially upstanding, all the usual?

RiceCrispieTreats · 11/10/2016 16:28

Don't know if anyone has recommended you read "Toxic In-Laws" by Susan Forward yet.

toptoe · 11/10/2016 16:43

Totally disengage. Any confrontation with mil will be like getting stuck in a swamp - there is no way out. Just have nothing to do with her after this.

Your dh does need to choose - is he going to harass you through your friends on behalf of his mother again? He needs to tell you this stops now and he will not put you down on behalf of his mother again.

I'm not sure this is forgivable without a reassurance from your dh your relationship is his priority.

magoria · 11/10/2016 20:29

Long term you need to think long and hard about if you want to stay in a relationship with a man who will always chose his mother to the detriment and maybe even mental damage of yourself or your DC.

When they get older will he join in bullying of them until they worship at the alter of granny like he does? Or accept them being the second class grandchildren because they don't fall into place?

You cannot change them. All you can change is you and your interactions with them.

Your DC need you to protect them and end this vicious cycle before too late for them as well.

DrMorbius · 11/10/2016 21:05

This may be the nuclear option Op but why not show your DH this thread?

He is used to the battle between you both and probably can't won't see the wood for the trees. A different perspective may help him understand that your MIL's actions are not "the norm".

EweAreHere · 11/10/2016 21:34

You can't live in silence. If he hasn't apologized and isn't making plans to tell off his mother and pull back from her, tell him to pack a bag and go stay with her. SInce that's where his whacko loyalties lie.

You can't live like this! And please don't let your children live like this.

Mummyoflittledragon · 12/10/2016 06:56

Personally I think you need to leave your dh longer to mull this over. This is said as the scapegoat daughter of a narcissist, who has slowly been loosening mother's hold off me. I understand it's hard and you're unhappy. I expect he is too and bloody confused.

If you try to appease the situation or gloss over what has happened, this will continue to happen. I know it's hard having to stick up for myself with a mother, who has nothing nice to say about or to me. To me, this is a defining moment for you and your dh and you need to stand firm.

I'm not suggesting you should ignore him for 6 months. But right now, it's early days and this may take a considerable while.

Other than your mil, is your marriage strong?

FurryLittleTwerp · 12/10/2016 07:00

Unfortunately you cannot "make" your DH see his DM for what she is until he chooses too. The way he scampers round to protect her speaks volumes. His siblings are all in it as well, reinforcing his beliefs & behaviour, as well as pandering to their DM, which will make it harder for him to "see the light".

All you can do is choose how you react / don't react. This might be the beginning of the end of your relationship - you have to protect yourself & especially your children. Sad A threat to your relationship might be the trigger your DH needs to extricate himself.

2kids2dogsnosense · 12/10/2016 14:24

What do the spouses/partners of your husband's siblings think of the Queen of Mean? Is there any chance you could all get together and form a united front against her, and help ALL your DHs and DWs to get out of her clutches?

As long as she can manipulate people it is going to be an uphill battle - but for your own peace of mind YOU need to get out of her web, even if DH continues to have contact. And keep your children away from her poison, too.

user1475501383 · 12/10/2016 17:15

I too had a narcissistic MIL, now she is my ex-MIL.

Like yours, she always had to be the centre of attention, whether by cooking the most laborious roasts (and she too loved the applause and toasts to her), making the most extravagant party pranks, being the most ill with the illest illness, working the most hard (her catchphrase to 'how are you' was 'oooh I'm very busy' or 'busy-busy'), spoiling my DS (her grandchild) until 6 of his teeth were rotten (didn't help my XH insisted we use fluoride-free toothpaste)...

This already was a pain in the ass but the manipulation and passive aggression was even worse, and I lived with her for 1.5 years when we were saving up for a house deposit! It is safe to say we got the house just in time as we were literally about to separate the month before.

The house gave us 5 more years together, but anyway, 2 years separated and divorced now, and going through custody battle with XH.

XH refused to see anything bad about his mum. It is sad how narcissistic parents condition their kids into not accepting realistic evidence of their behaviour. Little by little he did start to understand that his mum too had faults and wasn't all-perfect. But now XH and ex-MIL are again united in their vicious hatred of me and ex-MIL writes very interesting statements to court in support of XH's allegations.

It's some kind of elaborate cover-up - if they can keep blaming everything on me, then they don't have to face up to their own faults. This is so scary about narcissists - that they are practically unable to see anything wrong with their behaviour! It's always other people's fault.

I wish I could give you more support. I would say I would have separated from XH many, many years before we did, but him getting more clued up on his mother's true colours and controlling nature and manipulation, that bought us many more years together, for what it was worth.

Your DH needs to wake up, but this is easier said than done. You have my full sympathy, and I also have sympathy for your DH as it must be devastating to have a mum like that. I don't even have a clue how one can start to recover from a lifelong conditioning in pandering to a narcissistic parent. And yes my parents exhibit some NPD symptoms too but for what it's worth they are very open and honest and I think they're more on the autistic spectrum as they're not manipulative and manipulation requires eloquent social skills.

crazyhead · 12/10/2016 17:33

My father's mother was like this (is actually, she's 96) difficult life, poor mental health, massive narc though thankfully slightly diluted impact through having 7 kids. However, Dad dealt with it with absolute clarity - DGM was awful to Mum when they first met and refused to speak to her, so Dad happily hardly spoke to DGM for seven years while we were little till she got herself together. Alone of the family, he simply contradicts her and says exactly what he thinks to her face and tells her not to be bitchy, though he's never unkind. She's going pretty old and gaga now, but you know what - actually, she has more respect for my Dad and gets on more easily with him than some of his longer suffering siblings.
So it can be done. The thing is - he has a bottom line.

I think you need to work out what your own bottom line is before supporting your DH to find his. Can you continue with your DH if this situation continues? What positive changes are you actually asking him to make? What contact with MIL can you accept and tolerate?

In such a manipulative situation someone has to be very clear - by all means go to counselling to work it out. You can't expect she'll change but you can put down your own rules. For instance don't ask her to DCs birthdays if she dominates - don't ask any family but your DH. If she rings up moaning late at night, unplug your house phone and don't answer the mobile after a certain time.