Argument with DSis about Dbro's sex life.

[whatshouldihavesaid]

Name changed for this just in case my DSis sees this thread.

I'm one of three, I have an older brother and a younger sister. We're all married, around five years each.

DB lives away but he was home last week for work so the three of us went out. We don't see each other all that often, I don't know his DW very well but I like her.

After a few drinks DB admitted that they were having problems and said their sex life had dried up. Bear in mind we'd had a few. Not drunk but more honest than usual.

He said he'd suggested they try a few things to spice it up and she had rejected him totally, getting quite upset. Now they were in separate bedrooms. They'd not had sex for ages. He didn't know how to fix the situation short term or long term. He loves her and he wants to have a sexual relationship. She's not interested.

I suggested they need to talk. He needed to apologise for offending her, explain how he felt and suggested that when she was ready they could talk about how to move forward. I said that he could ask her if there was anything she'd like to do that might get things going again. (Thinking that if it was her idea he wouldn't be offending her.)

My DSis took a totally different approach, telling both of us that we shouldn't expect her to do something that she wasn't prepared to do and that she shouldn't be pressurised into having sex and that my DB should just suck it up if he really loved her.

DB got a bit angry and said how could she know she didn't like doing anything other than missionary with the lights off if she wasn't prepared to try anything else?

Anyhow the conversation went a bit south after that and I can't stop thinking about it.

So what should I have said? Surely an important part of a relationship is sex and that you both have a responsibility to find a middle way, whatever that might turn out to be, where both parties can be happy?

I'd hate to be in a sexless marriage. But I'd hate to be in a non communicative marriage which left me doing things I didn't want to just to appease my DH.

DB is still confused and unhappy and now DSis isn't really talking to me. I know it's probably none of my business but I'm trying to find peace with the whole thing.

Any ideas?

If it was 3 sisters chatting about one of their sex lives, just asking for advice on how to undo a recent splitting of bedrooms, where they weren't vulgar but simply asking for support, no one would bat an eyelid. This board really baffles me sometimes.

No man should share his problems with anyone. Disgusting habit!

Op, I agree with your advice, it sounds sensible and measured. His marriage is in trouble- they need help.

You can't do anything about your brothers marriage but if you normally have a good relationship with your sister, I find this a really odd thing to argue about.

He's not very sensitive, is he?

If she would only do lights off missionary, and then it dwindled from that, isn't it obvious that "spice it up" is going to make her feel pressured?

I have a huge amount of sympathy that a sexless marriage won't work for most people. I have less sympathy if he wants her swinging from chandeliers if he married her already knowing she was a one position in the dark kind of a girl.

Neither you nor your sister is wrong, and the right advice for this woman won't be right for another.

I am 😳 that your sister isn't talking to you, over it. Drama queen, much?

"DB got a bit angry and said how could she know she didn't like doing anything other than missionary with the lights off if she wasn't prepared to try anything else?"

That is just a horrible way to speak about someone that you supposedly love.

Perhaps from something that your brother said, it gave your sister the impression that he would be trying to persuade his wife into doing what he wanted.

What on earth is wrong with a man seeking advice from his sisters?! Personally, I would wonder whether the problem was him thinking the problem in the marriage was a lack of sex when that is just a symptom of the real problem, which would make his suggestion they spice up their sex life particularly aggravating to his DW. There's nothing like missing the point to really wind someone up!

How can you ask advice about sex on behalf of someone else though?

OP I don't see why people are commenting so much on a "weird" factor

I think your sister may be under her own pressure and so her reaction is more telling of her. I think, fwiw, that your bro's sharing is good - he's telling you about his marriage problems - don't we encourage people to share as part of mental health campaigns all the time?? - and I think you're right to say they should talk. I'd hold back about sex suggestions but encourage a safe conversation where she can say what is actually up and bothering her without feeling pestered (if she is feeling pestered or pressurised however "encouragingly" for sex). I hope they sort it out. She may feel like sex is nothing to her and she has no interest and can't imagine ever having interest. But these feelings can and often do change - but pressure will get nowhere. Well that's my tuppence worth. I think you sound like a nice sis by the way

It is weird.

It's weird that he's sitting there telling his little sister that she only likes 'lights off, missionary'. How does he even know that??

It's weird that he's talking about how he asked his wife to 'spice things up'.

We're having problems and I need advice is not the same as: our marriage is boring and sexless so I told her we should try all this stuff I like.

Why isn't OP allowed to discuss things with her brother and sister the way they want to? Openly? Without boundaries that other people might impose? Who gives anybody else leave to determine what is weird and what isn't, Waltermitty?

It's starting to sound a lot like a witch hunt and there seems a lot of that about today. Same old posters too.

I think it depends what advice you are looking for from this thread OP? Are you asking for advice that you can give to your brother for how to talk to his wife / try to improve things? I can say what helped me but am not sure if that is the specific advice you are after?

Or are you asking for what to do about your DSis? Perhaps a conversation with her might explain her reaction?

Or all of the above?

It's starting to sound a lot like a witch hunt and there seems a lot of that about today. Same old posters too.

Have I been on a witch hunt I didn't know about??

I think a man making crude sexual remarks to a woman because her sexual preferences are boring is weird, inappropriate and misogynistic.

I think it's worse when the man is a close relative.

I might be wrong, but I got the impression that DBro's comments about lights off and missionary were about his wife, not his sister.

Oh come on, Walter, the crudeness between women on these boards is breathtakingly inappropriate sometimes. I'm no prude and it nauseates me but I just backspace out.

OP was discussing an issue with her brother and sister and what she's posted is not crude or inappropriate for their relationship. It might not be what you would choose but you're neither the brother nor the wife nor the other sister.

OP has been roundly castigated by many on this thread and it's enough. It really is. It's not ok to do that and this is relationships board. It's supposed to be better than this.

It seems fairly obvious that people have a variety of relationships with their siblings. I would rather discuss my sex life with a complete stranger off the street than with my brother, but that's not a good thing - it's nice that you feel you can talk to each other.

Worth, therefore, bearing in mind that the wife under discussion may feel like me - that discussion with the siblings is really not a good idea - try to keep it under wraps.

I kind of agree with both of you, and with the pp above who said very definitely that your DB is focusing on the sex issue when it is very unlikely to be the originating reason for the problem. Yes he needs to be able to talk to his wife but IMO a third party counsellor could help the discussion open up what might actually be going on.

OP - rather than accuse me and another poster of sock puppeting I suggest that you report it to HQ.
I NC earlier today for a specific thread that would have outed me in RL and explained on that thread why I was doing so. That's why I appear to have only a handful of posts but I've been around MN for about 7 years and managed it without needing to sock puppet. Can't speak for the other Blanche !

Me too, Tartlett, and I agree I would see it a bit differently if he was commenting directly on his sister's lack of sexual variety there. I still don't think he'd be deserving the absolute pasting he's getting here, though!

I thought it was about his sister.

Even if it was about his wife, that's no better. It's a derisive way to discuss their sex life and he has no right to talk about a woman that way.

It's worse if it's a woman he supposedly loves either as his wife or as his sister.

Lying if my opinions on this thread are akin to a witch hunt against the OP then this place isn't what it used to be. Straight talking has always been one of its selling points.

He said he'd suggested they try a few things to spice it up and she had rejected him totally, getting quite upset. Now they were in separate bedrooms. They'd not had sex for ages. He didn't know how to fix the situation short term or long term. He loves her and he wants to have a sexual relationship. She's not interested.

Had he tried talking to his dw to see if anything is bothering her before his spicing stuff up suggestions? His dw may have got upset because he hasn't tried to find to find what's putting her off sex, and went straight to spicing it up. That could be a further turn off to her, and also feel like pressure. The language he uses "spice it up" if he's used same language to his dw then he may have come across as being bored by the sex they were having before issues. I can see why she would be upset.

I suggested they need to talk. He needed to apologise for offending her, explain how he felt and suggested that when she was ready they could talk about how to move forward. I said that he could ask her if there was anything she'd like to do that might get things going again. (Thinking that if it was her idea he wouldn't be offending her.)

They do need to talk, but if something is making her not want to have sex with him, they need to resolve that first. Instead of making it about what can I do to make you want sex, it should be, where did I/we go wrong rather than starting at a when will you want to do it? It may take a while though for her to be comfortable being intimate again. What did he want to do/say to cause offence? You don't have to say, but if suggested something the he knew she'd not be keen on, or role play type things she might find degrading, I can see why she'd be offended.

My DSis took a totally different approach, telling both of us that we shouldn't expect her to do something that she wasn't prepared to do and that she shouldn't be pressurised into having sex and that my DB should just suck it up if he really loved her.

Bus she also correct, he shouldn't be putting pressure on to her to have sex she doesn't want. I don't think he should suck it up though, There's every chance it an issue that can be fixed, but not by him pressuring to try things she does not want to,mor have sex with him when she doesn't want to. I guess it comes back to talking. I guess I'm saying he should be supportive and patient. If it's a problem that built up over time, it will take time to fix, so in a way, he should suck it up, at least for a bit, surely he would rather wait for a while, sort things out and have she wants?

DB got a bit angry and said how could she know she didn't like doing anything other than missionary with the lights off if she wasn't prepared to try anything else?

This is the bit that sounds iffy, because if he's getting angry at his sister for suggesting his dw can say no to sexual things things she doesn't want, is he being also angry/moody/sulky with his dw for saying no? I'd be in separate rooms too to be honest.

It also sounds like he didn't enjoy the sex they were having and if he's spoke to his wife the same way he did his sister about the sex they do have then that could be hurtful for her and make her less likely to want any sex, never mind spice things up sex.

She absolutely does not have to try anything sexual she does not want to, she can know what she doesn't want to do without ever trying it.

Eg, I have never had anal sex because I just don't want to. If dh pressured me and got angry when I said no and said I had to try it to know I didn't want it I'd be very offended and angry. If he kept trying it or mentioning it or being all grumpy about it then I'd probably not want sex at all.

I agree with everything acrossthepond said.

I went though a longish phase of being right off sex, I had a lot going on and I know dh wanted it but he never put any pressure on me, never complained, never sulked, I'd know I could hug him on the sofa with no expectations from him, he could see I was under pressure and helped me work through the stuff I had going on, which I really really love him for. I think if he started trying to spice stuff up, or complain about me only doing a b or c and refusing to try d e and f we'd not have worked through it, but he always said that the only sex he wants is sex that I want too, that he'd feel like a cunt having sex with me if he knew I was only doing it to keep him quiet.

I don't see why it's a derisive way to talk about their sex life. I expect there are a great many couples who only ever have sex in the dark, in the missionary position. There is nothing ridiculous or contemptible about that. Nor is it ridiculous, contemptible, depraved or corrupt for the db in this case to desire a bit more variety and to be upset that in seeking it, he has disgusted his wife and put his marriage at risk (if that is the real reason for the problems!). I would say his sisters should be good people to talk to about this, if he is confused about what he has done wrong and is hoping for an understanding female perspective.

I agree with WomanActually.

Walter, I wasn't actually talking about you, only the first bit of the post was to you. There have been some really nasty posts to the OP and she hasn't deserved them. I'm a straight-talker too but sometimes quite often go too near the bone when I'm ardent about something.

I also agree with WomanActually.

Thanks for clarifying, Lying.