How do you deal with people like this? Or stop being their target?

[OnceThereWasThisGirlWho]

Firstly, the karma thread got me thinking. Especially the posters saying horrible people often seem to get away with it. IME this is true - and it's true because nasty people pick their victims carefully and others think they are wonderful. As if it's all a game, where those they deem "low status" are written off whilst perceived "high status" individuals are brought onside (yes I know I sound like a psychologist!). I mean, I suppose that is human behaviour sadly, but it seems to an extreme degree (?). In the same way with groups, some people get away with poor behaviour because they are "popular" (why the hell are they popular?!) whilst others will be vilified for much less. And then of course these people also get to define the collective "reality" because they will be believed over the "low status" people.

I suppose my first question is, are most people like this? Can I meet nice people who actually form friendships with individuals without all the weird power games?

I've also recently been having distressing memories about an incident almost a decade ago. This incident illustrates something perfectly that I struggle with, and links in to the above. What happened was, I'd moved into a new shared house - one guy rented the place and let out the other two rooms. (Other occupied by bloke never there as always at partner's house). We seemed to get on well, and after a few days ended up sat up late one night chatting about all sorts. He told me about this woman he'd met that apparently his friends were warning him to stay away from because she was a single mother and a bit older than him (). I said don't be ridiculous, sounds fab, blah blah. Within a week they were not only together but inseparable, and he was helping with her mum's shopping and things. The second week, I met her, after a night out - they had also been out and got in before me and we merrily finished off a bottle of wine and seemed to "bond" or whatever. All good.

Following week for no apparent reason I was asked to move out (meanwhile I never saw him as he always stayed at hers). I was and asked why, and told it was because of all the late night wild parties I'd been having. Blatent lie - there was nothing that could remotely be construed as a late wild party! Or even any part of that description. It was completely bonkers. He claimed the neighbours had complained. I had no idea how to handle it - he was lying to me, and he knew I knew he was lying. (I checked with the pleasant and friendly neighbours about parties in case someone in the vicinity had been doing that and it was mistakenly attributed to me. They'd heard nothing and were as baffled as me).

But of course, I had to go. He had all the power. Had about 10 days notice (until end of month) The day I left was horrific and the police got involved (in hindsight I was assaulted, by both he and his new partner, but I didn't frame it as such so didn't tell the police). I'm guessing that this guy's new partner was the reason I got kicked out.

The thing is, this is such a bonkers thing to happen that it sounds like I'm making it up. I suppose most people would think that I must be denying having parties, or lying about some other aspect/covering something up. It's frightening, it makes me feel so vulnerable, because I know people can be dicks to me and get away with it. Luckily in this incident my friends believed me because this guy was the "unknown" person, and two of them had called for me the night before I left and he was unpleasant to them.

But this sort of thing seems to happen to me. People are unpredictably really vile, and if it's by someone in the group/known to the group, as the (relative) newbie, I'm the one who gets disbelieved and/or cut out. If it's not by someone known to the group, there's still the issue of appearing to be making stuff up/being a "drama queen" because, to put it bluntly, this amount of bizarre crap should not happen to one person. There's so much I wish I could tell someone but I just can't.

People seem willing to believe horrible lies about me, and I always seem to be the target for controlling bullying types. I was "wendied" and cut off from someone I'd thought was a good friend (male) when they got a girlfriend. (She was verbally and physically agressive to him and controls who he sees). Another friend who was also pushed out a bit (we discussed it), moved away. She recently visitied and suddenly is all pally with this awful woman - to the point of believing lies about me. I just do not understand this, and it is deeply upsetting.

So my second question is, how do I stop people like her targetting me?

Finally, there's other stuff. I have mental health issues - started off as being quite messed up from problems at home and as I got into abusive relationships and had some awful expereinces I seemed to aquire a load of trauma that unleashed itself in my mid 20s even as everything else was finally going well. This didn't exactly help me making friends in the new area I'd moved to. A problem I find is that people write me off, but being friends with the oddballs who accept me either seems to mean dealing with severely dysfunctional people, people I don't actually feel I have much in common with, or those who do become friends and get it together and stop being oddballs who then cut me out because I don't belong in their fab new life (despite encouraging them before!)

I'm in my early 30s now and want to give up tbh. Im so sorry this post is so long, I keep crying. Just finally - I know someone will mention it - I'm waiting for an ASD assessment, however I can read nonverbal cues quite well (apparently - obvs I wouldn't know!).

Secondly, I saw a therapist for about 18 months. It really helped with self confidence and boundaries, but the world the therapist lives in seems to be different from mine. Hence me being sure there's something I'm doing that makes me a target. Also, having boundaries and self worth means I draw the line sooner with people and stand up for myself more, which obviosuly doesn't go down well. I feel so stuck, if I'm nice to people they walk all over me, if I calmly put down boundaries or stand up for myself they go bonkers as if trying to force my hand, or simply cut me off.

Any advice welcome, thank you.

My advice would be to spend time reflecting on those negative relationships and try to find a common denominator if you can.
Are you too available, or just a marvellous listener? Are you hugely compassionate or one of life's 'fixer's'? Find that common denominator that other people tend to home in on and that should give you a bit of clarity.
Secondly, I'd suggest a tactic that's currently working for me which is saying no to things that I don't want to do. Just a simple 'no' without explanation or just a statement like 'That doesn't work for me', and I've stopped apologising which is having a really positive effect.
I can't cope with arrangements being made that are imprecise or disorganised or with people being late or letting me down because they're disorganised so I've stopped making any arrangements with those who have a history of being inconsiderate.
These recently established boundaries are really helping me to move away from people who bring no joy to my life and for the first time in my life I'm making space for those who just might.

I know exactly how you feel OP. I am continually gobsmacked, at a fundamental values level, by the shite some people seem to think is ok - in terms of behaviour and treatment of others. I have worked for my whole adult life on a coping strategy for this values mismatch, to try to stop it affecting me.

I had some interesting sessions with a therapist a while ago. She had me map out my life so far in blocks - age 0-7, 7-14, 14-21, 21-now. In each block she asked me to describe traumatic events I remember, also to put into a sentence how I would describe my essential self, and to describe important positive events (just a few of the most important).

Her point was that these events of childhood and early adulthood form patterns for us, and over time we repeat and repeat the same emotional pathway based on the same (or similar) trigger so it becomes habitual. She said that to prevent feeling like I was back in that childhood emotional place again when I experienced a trigger for the pattern, I needed to learn to recognise it and create a "stop" in my head to prevent it from running through the whole learned response. Visualising closing doors, or diverting to a happy feeling or something else. It actually works quite well once I got the hang of it, and stops me from feeling so powerless.

I haven't had this to the same extent as you, but I have noticed to a certain degree that more of the 'wrong' people have come into my life when I've had my barriers up emotionally. In retrospect I think this is mainly because I'm not giving signals that I'm interested in friendship (or whatever), so the nice, normal, emotionally balanced folk who abide by people's boundaries accept that I'm not interested and move on. Only the unhealthy few that are completely oblivious that other people even have boundaries make it past my emotional walls, by persistently ignoring my 'go away' signals. Thus further skewing my belief that everyone that makes the effort to be my friend will treat me like shit, so I build those walls even higher and exclude all but the worst boundary abusers.

This is such a good thread and I can relate to so much on it. Like others, I've started to 'go it alone' a lot more as I'm finding that people generally are getting more and more selfish and twattish. I think that one thing we all share in common on this thread is that we are all nice people, who want to be honest and helpful to others but are being attacked by that large sea of sharks out there.

I've also been on ESA and every benefit but still found cheap therapy. Charities, womens orgs etc. You have to dig.

OP I'm so glad you've started this thread as I've actually recently been thinking the exact same thing - ! - you've made some very good points especially about people dismissing bad stuff that others do etc but hamming up their 'target's' perceived slights.
Can I just say though OP - well done for standing up for yourself and putting boundaries in place - thing is - I've found as well when you say no to people or put boundaries in place people do often act either awkward or miffed or disappointed etc. But I personally think OP it's a good thing their cutting you off as you describe when you put boundaries in place - this means they know they can't treat you as a pushover and they've lost/failed and have no choice but to move on.

they are cutting you off not their.

springy I have dug. There isn't anywhere offering free or very cheap therapy unless you are a carer or possibly have recently escaped DV. That''s why I ended up paying previously. About £40 per session at the reduced rate.

I'm in psychoanalytic therapy for this very reason.

After years of being surrounded by them, and years of psychotherapy, I can spot malicious narcissists (and their lovebombing techniques) a mile off and avoid them like the plague, but for some reason this makes me even more attractive to them - like I'm some sort of 'project' to be worked on and worn down. When it becomes clear that I won't drink the Kool Aid, they decide to start slagging me off to everyone else instead, people who are more easily swayed and eager to stay on the right side of this person who they seem in thrall to.

It's quite wearing. I have BPD myself, which is very well managed and I'm very aware of my own behaviours, which I rectify and rein in as and when needed. Part of managing it, for me, is by avoiding poisonous or very emotionally overpowering sorts. I just don't do intense friendships. I'm very happy in my own company, and DH understands completely why I don't go out of my way to form new friendships.

Someone upthread said about meeting these people when the emotional barriers are up, and not finding friendships with genuinely good people who have boundaries, as a direct consequence - I get that. It was helpful to see it put into words so well.

I'm sorry to hear that. At one point I got some free therapy on Skype. Somebody stateside.

Have you done eg cbt? Obvs it doesn't address the core stuff (unless you're very lucky and get an enlightened therapist working out of the usual poorly skilled NHS narrow remit but excellent baseline skills.

Forgot to close brackets there

I sometimes dream of moving somewhere with old values. An island in the Pacific or something. Britain is just so fraught relationally.

I recently spent time at a retreat place. The absolute joy of the place (structured, Christian) was that when you fall out with someone you're so living cheek by jowl you have to work it out together. Absolute joy to get to finish things off, confront, say your piece etc. Work it through. Without being torn to shreds /fucked over /etc.

I'm intrigued about those who have experienced this who also have partners... How did you meet your partner? And I dunno, I sort of thought it was "unsafe" to get involved with anyone without friends you can trust, because a) abusive men target the vulnerable/unsupported (and normal men probably put off/think you're weird), and b) if you realise he's a fuckwit it's harder to leave with no support (and even if not abuse, really difficult to deal with breakup with zero support).

Also intrigued/horribly depressed at the idea that selfishness/treating everything like a business transaction is getting worse. I'm vaguely hoping it's actually not, but is just something you notice as you age so it seems like it is...

springy I'm not allowed CBT or any therapy in primary care - have been assessed several times and they recognise I need something longer term/more in depth. Secondary services won't see me. I'm in the gap! Hoping ASD assessment with trigger something one way or another.

Why were the police involved the day you left? What happened? Your posting style seems very familiar..

Why were the police involved the day you left? What happened? Your posting style seems very familiar..

Of course my posting style is familiar. What are you getting at? I haven't namechanged for this post. And if I had, why would you be trying to "out" me? Lots of people namechange when talking about personal things in relationships.

To everyone else: what do you think of Barksdale's post? If they had asked differently I'd be quite happy to go into more detail of what happened. But without being able to explain why exactly, this poster clearly doesn't seem to be asking out of concern and actually seems like they don't like me or are trying to get at me on some level. But not enough that if this was a real life conversation in person I'd be able to say anything or be sure how to react.

I agree that the question was phrased as if it was trying to trip you up.

The getting assessed for ASD thing is interesting. I believe that the very socially astute have a radar for differences. If that socially astute person is also unpleasant, it can result in horrendous bullying.
The only way I personally know how to cope with situations like that is to withdraw and cut off, which works well in my private life but is difficult in for instance work situations.

I'm not "trying to identify as ASD". It seems likely though, considering the specific things I struggle with (for example needing time alone just to do apparently nothing but sort of recover from doing things/think. I can't be consistently productive either, if I have a productive couple of days I feel wiped out in terms of needing more alone time. I am capable of a lot of things but not all at once, ie. I might be able to hold down a job if I had a cleaner/cook/housekeeper/PA.) Now I've flagged it up the mental health services seem to think it's likely too, as far as I can tell. In a small way I was disappointed when they looked at everything and basically said, hmm you have a point, and put me on the list for ASD assessment. Also, it seems there is a streak of ASD running through the family. As I mentioned, I hope it's not ASD because then it's "fixable", but considering the nature of my OP I figured I'd better mention it because it was likely someone else would.

I haven't "changed my story" at all. So do fuck off if you just want to be unpleasant.

Don't worry OP, even if you do have ASD it's, if not "fixable", manageable. I've never had an ASD diagnosis, but strongly suspect I'm on the spectrum- it was being on MN and reading about others that made me think! But to learn this about myself has had a positive influence on the way I relate with others. It's enabled me to distance myself from the weird behaviour of others, and my very strong emotional reactions to it.

Previously, I would do things like totally cut a friend off if they didn't comply with my expectations of what a friend should do (such as not help me out with something when they'd previously said they would). I now understand far better that people are weird. Period. And, to be honest, "neurologically typical" people are the weirdest. They play all kinds of social dominance games, often without realising what they're doing. That's OK, that's them, not you. You have to realise that everybody's fallible, and not take it personally. If they let you down, take it philosphically and go home and call them names behind closed doors. They'll probably come through for you at some point in the future, just don't expect too much of them.

Many people do behave in frankly outrageous ways, but, y'know, weirdos gonna weird . It's not you. Emotionally disengage, move on.

As for landlords.....? They're in a position of power, and IME many, many of them take the opportunity to abuse that. (I'm currently having a dispute with my ex LL, who, after being great for 5 years, has been telling barefaced lies in order to claw back a few hundred quid of deposit). It's depressingly normal...

I don't think its possible, just randomly, to meet nice people anymore. The reason for that as I see it is very much to do with how society has changed over the last twenty years or so.
Its just my experience of late, but I've yet to meet anyone who wants to know me for who I am, but they would love to know me for what I can do for them. Friendship appears to have become like everything else, transactional; and its slipping into family relationships too.
Everyone wants something from me and the older I get, the more I begin to withdraw and just want to be on my own.

This is exactly how I feel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

..needing time alone just to do apparently nothing but sort of recover from doing things/think.

This, and other examples in your party, could just as well be introversion. Ie an introvert. Nothing wrong with that, just the way you're wired! I remember there was a thread on here where introverts joined in blessed relief they'd found others who felt exactly the way they did. I seem to remember the consistent theme was needing to withdraw to recharge...

Party?? Post ffs