Lies

[Myfathersglove]

NC for this, I'm in pieces, I know what I have to do but guess I need validation. DH has lied before, not about anything massively bad just stupid lies to cover his arse when he's done something he knows I might not be happy about. I have a real aversion to lies and liars, I hate that feeling that I'm being/have been deceived to the point it makes me feel sick with anger. I think my reaction does border on extreme/unreasonable, I can't trace it back to a particular incident, all I know is that it makes me feel stupid and humiliated and I struggle with those feelings.

So I found out last night he has lied again, I told him last time if it happened once more that would be the end of us and still he's done it again. The thing he's lied about doesn't matter, it would have been no big deal if he'd come and spoken to me about it, it's the lie I'm upset about. I've told him over and over there's nothing he can tell me that would be as bad as lying, that I will do my best to work through anything as long as he's honest with me. I've been utterly consistent, the only real deal breakers in our marriage are lying and cheating, he knows that and I don't think I'm asking too much.

It took months last time for me to get anywhere close to trusting him again, it turned me into a paranoid mess and I don't like the person I become when I feel like that. I really thought he finally understood, that I'd convinced him he could tell me anything and I wouldn't react badly just as long as he was honest.

I don't understand why he's done it, there is no logical reason I can see. He says he did it to protect me but I honestly can't see why he thought I needed protecting, it wasn't anything I couldn't handle perfectly well and I truly can't see why he thought otherwise. If that really was the justification he used in his own mind I find it totally arrogant that he thought he had the right to decide for me that I couldn't handle it and I'm not sure whether that isn't just as bad as my alternative theory, which is that he just likes having secrets, gets some kind of kick out of sneaking around and keeping things from me.

The arrogance option makes me angry but the idea that he likes sneaking around makes me feel utterly humiliated. I know I react badly to that feeling, probably more so than the average person but I can't tell if that means I over react or whether it's a relatively 'normal' response to feeling I've been taken for a mug.

I think I have to end it, I don't think I can face trying to rebuild trust again and, if I give him yet another chance, it feels like I'm giving him permission to do it again because I said last time it would be the end if he lied again. But the thing he lied about is stupid and inconsequential and, in itself, is a stupid reason to blow our lives (and our child's) apart. So, tell me honestly, is my reaction to being lied to out of proportion? Is this abject fear of being humiliated making this seem a bigger deal to me than it actually is? Please help me get some perspective, I'm sorry this is so long.

It makes me feel like I'm his mum and he's a furtive teenager, urgh.

I don't think he's doing it to take the piss out you OP or that he thinks you are thick, I think it is so engrained in him, it's who he is.

I still think he needs help, I mean, who does that after the age of ten?

I'm exactly the same about being lied to as well OP.

I don't think it's a symptom of a neurosis to feel massively pissed off at being disrespected and deceived.

When someone lies to you, essentially they're saying to you: 'I think you're stupid enough to believe my bullshit.'

That's rage inducing to me, and lost people I'm sure.

Most people. Not lost people.

Exactly adora, it does feel utterly childish.

I think it's more likely that he just thinks he's more important, more 'valuable', than you are, iyswim. That's always what I've felt about that kind of person. Sort of "I don't have to tell you the truth, because you just don't matter as much as I do. I can lie to you because it's more important that I get to do whatever I want, therefore my lying is justified. I owe you nothing and I'm perfectly justified in treating you however I wish. Because I'm more important".

I think that's sort of why I've always felt "Well, you think I'm unimportant enough to lie to, what else would you feel I was unimportant enough to do to me? Steal? Cheat? Or God forbid, hit?

I think this type of behaviour just tears and digs at your self esteem until you become a 'shell' of who you are. You become someone who is willing to accept bad treatment, not just from a partner but from anyone. It makes you extremely vulnerable to being taken advantage of by others.

Is it just you who lies to or is he like this with everyone cos that would be very telling.

I think that's where my 'extreme' reaction comes from Across, a visceral fear that being deceived makes me vulnerable and exposed. It's such a strong feeling and I think it's instinctive self preservation, the need to protect myself. Someone I love and who's supposed to love me shouldn't provoke that response should they? Shit, I do need to end this don't I.

He's like this with everyone adora, I'm interested to hear what that says to you?

He needs to get help then because eventually everyone will have nothing to do with him, it must be highly embarrassing for him and you, no?

It sounds pathological then.

I imagine very damaging to be around. He should seek help. And you should seek to get away.

He rarely gets found out by anyone else tbh adora, it tends to take a different form with other people, more like lying to make himself look 'better' or lying to manipulate people into doing what he wants instead of just being straight and asking for what he wants. It doesn't happen all that often so I'm not sure people who aren't as close to him even notice, I notice though and have spoken to him about it and pointed out that he doesn't need to do that in order for people to like him or be willing to help him out. That's the worst of it, people do like him, he's a good man in so many ways and it sometimes appears that he does these things because his self esteem is low. But then other elements look more like arrogance and the 'I'm more important than you' attitude Across described, very confusing.

If he's this way with everyone, then it almost seems as if he's a bit of a sociopath. He may feel a bit of remorse, but it doesn't stop him from doing it.

You know, I'm a pretty big proponent of listing to one's gut instincts. I think you have to examine them to see if they still ring 'true' after you think a bit. But generally speaking gut instincts are pretty reliable, especially after 'repeat performances' like his.

Oh, and his motive for doing it really doesn't matter (low esteem vs arrogance). The fact is that he does it all all, not why.

Deal breaker.

I think they're reliable too Across and if I just listen to my gut my choice is clear. Trouble is, as is usually the case when the choice is whether to end a relationship, there is so much more to be considered here. DD adores him, has seen other family's split up and has begged me to promise her that won't happen to us, the practicalities would be difficult (although I know that can't be a reason to stay together) and our lives would change in ways I would do almost anything to avoid. It's difficult, as it always is when you're contemplating splitting up, I have some serious thinking to do.

This idea of "I lied to protect you" would piss me off thoroughly. Sounds a) patronising, as if you are too weak to know the truth and he is the adult who decides what you get to hear, b) like he is blaming you for his lying - "I just did it because of you" - and c) like he is trying to make himself the saintly man who just lies to protect his poor little woman, rather than the big fat liar doing something you told him not to.

Yes, I totally understand. When I've actually ended relationships (first marriage, boyfriends, etc) I've always done it from a position of strength (no kids, self-supporting) and I forget that it's not always so easy for others.

The only time I did threaten to leave after DH and I had DC, it was just as much for their good as it was mine so the decision was much easier, and again, I had at the ability to leave and support us and DH knew it. As it turned out, we stayed together but were in counseling for over a year. And it was NOTHING like your situation. It really had nothing to do with trust issues so it was 'easier' to fix.

You don't have to answer, but has DH lied to DD as he lies to others? Is she old enough to have seen through it or wondered why Daddy said or promised X then did Y or didn't follow through as promised? If so, she may be able to understand a bit better your reasons for ending things. I think it's also pretty important that she understand that she doesn't need to accept that kind of behaviour.

No, he doesn't do it to DD, never makes promises he can't keep and is generally a really good dad so there will be no advantage for her if we split up, she will just be losing her family as she knows it. When I look at it that way it just feels selfish, I'm the only one adversely affected by his lies so I would be blowing her life apart to protect myself.

Growing up in a family where your dad lies to your mum and your mum resents him for doing so is not great, is it now? You'd end up losing respect for either parent.

And yes, lying to protect you, you know that's BS right?

As for your daughter, there are millions of separated couples and yes it is logistically difficult and depressing, and awful but, ultimately, there is no reason why you can't co parent so your daughter will not lose out, in fact she may be happier living with two people that are happy, rather than one and the other pissed off, you should never stay for the kid's sake, I really don't believe in that anymore.

Sounds like you are no where near ending it OP, so I'd say you either tell him to seek help and support him or you will have to stay as you are and wait for the next let down.

You are entitled to a happy life, not just your child.

It's not great raven, no but neither is the alternative. Her life would literally be turned upside down if we split, she's home educated and would have to go to school (which she would hate) so I could work and that's aside from the emotional impact. She's not the only consideration, I love him cliched though that sounds, I just wish he stop making me feel like shit by lying to me.

I doubt your daughter will thank you in a few years to learn you stayed with him because of her, I bet she'd rather you didn't.

If you love him then fine, tell him he seeks help now OP, you should not have to live like this.

If you do nothing, you will feel like shit for a long time.

Or, maybe he's just a shit partner who has little respect for you and is happy to lie to your face, you know him better than any of us.

What do his friends say about it, surely if he's as bad as you say, it's a constant joke no?

Most people lie frequently. There have been numerous psychological studies on the subject you can Google and there's an interesting documentary about it from a psychological perspective on Netflix if you have it.

I accept that most people lie often, it's a common human trait. I do it. Not about 'big stuff' but saying I've got other plans when asked to go out and I want to avoid an awkward conversation, seeing someone I know when i've got a hospital appt and saying i'm there for a different reason and yes, feeling like i'm protecting people I love by not telling them something they may worry about. People who pride themselves on always telling the truth are often talking about not lying about 'big stuff' and don't realise how often they really do lie because it doesn't register to them as a lie because it isn't important or damaging.

Where it's damaging is on the context. If it's something important or how often it happens. You have to make a decision about what you feel is acceptable in your relationship. But I don't think most people who lie are getting a kick out of it or being deliberately deceitful when it's day to day stuff.

I'm perilously close to leaving him on one hand and nowhere near on the other if I'm honest adora. If I look at what he's done in isolation there's no choice but to leave him but then all the other considerations come in and it's much less clear cut, I think that's a fairly normal conflict in this situation really. Ultimately my self respect will win out, I value it too highly for there to be any other eventual outcome but my concern for DD will mean I will exhaust every other avenue first. What that will look like, what I will actually do, I genuinely don't know atm but the consequences for her are so far reaching I know I have to be sure there was no other option.