Lies

[Myfathersglove]

NC for this, I'm in pieces, I know what I have to do but guess I need validation. DH has lied before, not about anything massively bad just stupid lies to cover his arse when he's done something he knows I might not be happy about. I have a real aversion to lies and liars, I hate that feeling that I'm being/have been deceived to the point it makes me feel sick with anger. I think my reaction does border on extreme/unreasonable, I can't trace it back to a particular incident, all I know is that it makes me feel stupid and humiliated and I struggle with those feelings.

So I found out last night he has lied again, I told him last time if it happened once more that would be the end of us and still he's done it again. The thing he's lied about doesn't matter, it would have been no big deal if he'd come and spoken to me about it, it's the lie I'm upset about. I've told him over and over there's nothing he can tell me that would be as bad as lying, that I will do my best to work through anything as long as he's honest with me. I've been utterly consistent, the only real deal breakers in our marriage are lying and cheating, he knows that and I don't think I'm asking too much.

It took months last time for me to get anywhere close to trusting him again, it turned me into a paranoid mess and I don't like the person I become when I feel like that. I really thought he finally understood, that I'd convinced him he could tell me anything and I wouldn't react badly just as long as he was honest.

I don't understand why he's done it, there is no logical reason I can see. He says he did it to protect me but I honestly can't see why he thought I needed protecting, it wasn't anything I couldn't handle perfectly well and I truly can't see why he thought otherwise. If that really was the justification he used in his own mind I find it totally arrogant that he thought he had the right to decide for me that I couldn't handle it and I'm not sure whether that isn't just as bad as my alternative theory, which is that he just likes having secrets, gets some kind of kick out of sneaking around and keeping things from me.

The arrogance option makes me angry but the idea that he likes sneaking around makes me feel utterly humiliated. I know I react badly to that feeling, probably more so than the average person but I can't tell if that means I over react or whether it's a relatively 'normal' response to feeling I've been taken for a mug.

I think I have to end it, I don't think I can face trying to rebuild trust again and, if I give him yet another chance, it feels like I'm giving him permission to do it again because I said last time it would be the end if he lied again. But the thing he lied about is stupid and inconsequential and, in itself, is a stupid reason to blow our lives (and our child's) apart. So, tell me honestly, is my reaction to being lied to out of proportion? Is this abject fear of being humiliated making this seem a bigger deal to me than it actually is? Please help me get some perspective, I'm sorry this is so long.

[adora1]

Tell you what OP, you sound bloody marvellous and very switched on, I hope he fucken realises what he can lose.

[Myfathersglove]

Thanks adora, that's the worst of it, I do think he realises which makes it all the more difficult to understand why he does this.

That's really interesting straight and yes, I accept that people lie too but there's usually a recognisable reason. As you say to avoid hurting someone's feelings, to get out of a social engagement you don't fancy, to protect your privacy etc, all valid and understandable reasons and not really harmful to anyone. It's the fact that there's no real reason for DH's lies I find so difficult, I'm not a nag or a harridan, I want him to be happy and don't try to stop him doing what he wants to do or having the things he wants, in fact I do my best to help him. He has no reason to hide things from me, he knows I won't give him a hard time even if I don't necessarily approve of his choices, he has no need to 'protect' me from anything, I'm a strong person and I've made it clear I will always be able to deal better with honesty than any misguided attempts to shelter me from the truth, whatever it may be. It just feels like lying for the sake of lying, like it gives him some pleasure or satisfaction to 'get one over' on me and that I can't handle or understand. If I could see the reason for the lie I might be able to get past it but he can't even explain it himself. He halfheartedly used the 'protecting me' excuse last night but ended up saying he didn't honestly know why he lied, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that.

[straightouttacompton]

You don't have 'to do' anything with it. You decide what is acceptable to you or not. I was just making the point that lying is often part of human behaviour and can be automatic and not necessarily a desire to 'get one over' on someone.

If you are one of the extremely rare people that never lie (and I admit I am sceptical about people who claim that in the absence of a neurodevelopmental condition) then that will be of more significance to you and cause you more distress.

[Myfathersglove]

I expect I do lie in the ways and for the reasons we've talked about, it's the lack of reason in DH's case which makes it feel outside of the norm and more like some kind of personal attack on me or at least an abnormal response rather than normal human behaviour.

[Questioning25]

My last partner was like this. His first impulse was often to lie, as he admitted to me after I caught him in one. A couple of big lies from the beginning of the relationship ultimately caught up with him and sent us in a downward spiral that culminated in the end of the relationship. I loved my ex partner. He was a kind and good man generally, and I still feel like he was the love of my life. But a partner who consistently lies, even about small things, destroys any trust you might have in them and slowly eats away at the relationship.

Like others have said, you have to decide what's acceptable behavior. But I don't think this type of behavior goes away on its own. If you don't want to leave him, I'd recommend counseling and make your relationship contingent on him going. He has an issue if he can't avoid lying to you even after you make it a deal breaker.

[Questioning25]

And I would say not to view it as an attack on you. I truly think some people, perhaps based on their background, have this impulse to lie. For my ex, I think he was raised in a house with grossly excessive punishments and his first impulse became to avoid trouble at any cost. It's no excuse, but I think he was wired to do it from a young age.

[straightouttacompton]

Then you're possibly finding his lying more upsetting than your own. You lie (most people do) but when he does; for what you've said was an unimportant matter - you see it as a personal attack.

It may be or it may not. Your response suggests this is an issue relating to your previous experiences which have damaged you. And that's okay and you are the only person who can decide what you can tolerate in your relationship.

He may be a complete arse but your posts suggest he isn't when you separate him from this issue.

But you may be attributing more emotional significance to this because of previous negative/abusive experiences. But you wouldn't expect someone to react badly or view you in a bad light due to your own 'little' lies.

I really think you'll struggle to be in any kind of relationship if your expectation is that the other person never lies and you view that as a personal attack.

But it's up to you what you can live with.

[Questioning25]

I should perhaps add something based on straight's post. It really depends on what lies he is telling. Small lies are something most people do to spare feelings. In those cases, if the occasions are rare and harmless, you might be overreacting. If that's the case, maybe try therapy together so that he can gain a better sense of your perspective and you can see his view?

However, if he's lying about where he is or what he's doing, that's a different matter. Those types of lies have an impact on trust and the relationship.

[allthatnonsense]

Don't we all tell fibs to some extent? Isn't your need for the absolute truth a bit controlling? Perhaps his little lies are a way of clawing some privacy? Maybe his fibs have got absolutely nothing to do with you.
Do you trust him on the whole? Would you trust him to make the right moral call? Do you trust him to be faithful?
My husband and I tell each other the odd fib to ease our marriage, but we ultimately trust each other not to fuck up.
You're deluding yourself if you don't think that lying is an important adult skill, just as long as he's not hurting anyone or a sociopath starting his own cult.
I realise that my view may be unpopular.

[JennyMe]

I've had an ex-h who lied and lied by omission. I was told it was because I didn't need to know something, to protect me or he knew what response he would get. I've now realised that those excuses are unacceptable. His lies gradually escalated. I really understand though that you have a daughter to consider.

[Myfathersglove]

Since much of what I've posted is quite identifying I'm going to go the whole hog and say what the lie was, in the interests of getting informed responses. Both me and DH were habitual cannabis users for a long time, it caused a lot of problems and started to affect our health so we quit a few years ago. It's come up in conversation a couple of times lately, whether we could smoke 'socially' again now without it becoming a problem again. We'd made no decisions about it, hadn't gone further than hypothetical musing really. He was going away for work this morning and I went to put some clothes in his suitcases late last night, noticed a smell and found a bag of weed in his case. He'd dozed off on the sofa so I woke him and asked him why it was there and he tried to tell me he knew nothing about it!! It was obviously stupid to try and lie in the face of irrefutable evidence and I am partly putting that down to him being half asleep (although that doesn't change the fact that his initial response was to lie) but he'd obviously made the decision to buy it, managed to sneak off and fetch it (using family money which is tight atm) and not tell me and intended smoking it behind my back while he was away. I don't feel it was the sort of insignificant lie we all tell from time to time, it involved deliberate deception and sneaking around which he knows I hate. If he'd spoken to me about it I probably would have tried to talk him out of it but he's a grown man and it would ultimately have been his decision, he knows I wouldn't have been angry, that we could have had a reasonable discussion about it but he chose to lie and sneak around instead. I hope that makes it easier to understand why I've reacted the way I have, I don't think I'm controlling (although I'm happy to be corrected if people think I am) I just feel like he should have discussed it with me and I'm upset he chose to be sneaky instead.

[smilingeyes11]

No you aren't controlling. He made a serious of decisions in this lie, much like an affair really. I would not be able to tolerate it.

What are you going to do?

[AnyFucker]

yes, that's not a "white" lie

it's a series of deliberate steps he took, knowing full well what he was doing

[Myfathersglove]

I don't know what I'm going to do. I just spoke to him, he has no decent explanation for what the fuck he was thinking, says he 'doesn't know' why he's done this, doesn't seem to get that I need to hear a real, honest reason why he thought it was ok to deliberately deceive me after everything I said last time. I'm going to struggle to come back from this, much as I hate the thought of splitting up and all the repercussions that will have on DD I'm starting to see I have no choice, I can't be with someone who chooses to deceive me on this sort of scale and then doesn't even have a decent fucking reason for it. Shit, he's an idiot for fucking this up.

[KeepCoolCalmAndCollected]

I understand OP - it's a horrible way to live, it's so unnecessary and wears you down. I don't think your reaction is over the top - you should be able to trust your DH 100% with your life in his hands, and you simply can't (sorry).
It might be worth having a look at a thread on MN tonight that's very similar to yours called "What if your partner doesn't respect you."
Fwiw, that lie was utterly ridiculous but worst of all he was very deceitful. It shows a total lack of respect and insults your intelligence.

[KeepCoolCalmAndCollected]

Sorry OP cross-posted with you on the last bit.

[Questioning25]

This may cut against the prevailing opinion, but I personally end the relationship over this lie. It's troubling that he used family money when it's tight, didn't talk to you about it, and lied when confronted. But if you haven't ruled out smoking socially and really only mused about it, it wouldn't be relationship ending for me. Is he trustworthy in other areas? Do you generally have to worry about his activities? Is it something you two could work out in counseling?

You have to set your own boundaries of course. And if it's too much for you, you should end it. The split is because of his poor behavior. Just wanted to give an alternative view.

[itsuckstoo]

i don't know if this is relevant to you OP, but DH and i are getting increasingly annoyed with a friend of his who is lying to his DW about his cancer treatments (as in she does not know that he has it for the third time and is receiving treatment privately in another city.)

He has not told her apparently to "protect" her, but to be honest I find this massively disrespectful. My theory, at least from talking to him, is that he has a complex about wanting to be the "big man" and the "provider" and doesn't want to appear weak. He cannot grasp that in loving relationships there is a balance of power and care and mutual care taking that goes up and down over time.

I feel he is doing her a huge disservice and potentially causing her greater pain in the long run - especially if he suddenly dies and she has no idea why.

So lies - even if they are not personal and even though you can excuse them in some circumstances are a sign of disrespect and a sign of someone not allowing you personal autonomy over your own life.

[allthatnonsense]

Lying about drugs is serious. I misunderstood your post - I thought that it was about meaningless harmless lies.
Sounds as if you can't trust his morals.

[adora1]

We do not all lie, especially when we know it has and will hurt our partners, yes the odd white lie very occasionally but I can honestly say, why would you want to lie in the first place? Did we not stop doing that after pre school.

[Myfathersglove]

Things aren't really any better today, I know it doesn't change what he's done but I really want him to explain wtf he was thinking, why he did it but he doesn't seem to be able to give me anything more in depth than that he didn't want to worry me, other than that he just keeps saying he doesn't know. I'm so confused, I feel like I've reached my limit, I don't think I will ever feel the same about him after this but DD overheard me on the phone to him last night (I thought she was asleep) and obviously heard enough to realise we were arguing. It's not something she's really ever been exposed to before as we're normally a calm household and she got so upset and seemed really afraid that it meant we were splitting up. I tried to reassure her without promising it wouldn't happen (because it might), told her me and daddy would always love her whatever happens but it made me feel so awful that I might be about to put her through something she so obviously doesn't want to happen. That's on top of all the practical concerns I mentioned yesterday, the fact that she would have to go to school etc, and now I'm back to wondering whether splitting up is just selfish.

[adora1]

No offence OP, but your daughter would be fine, just like all the other thousands of children that are from parents who are now separated, it's only traumatic if the parents make it that way.

Also, this is bad, do you want to spend the next so many years wondering what else he has hidden or lied about, he cannot be trusted, it's that simple, sorry but I feel he is going to continually let you down.

Saying I don't know for his explanation is a joke and tbh what children say to get out of situations they know they should not be in.

He's not being honest with you or he's just one of life's little sneaks that will always be this way, how can you respect that, I couldn't. Imagine if your daughter had found that bag of drugs before you.

[LovesPeace]

My ex told little white lies, because he wanted me to be happy, and to like/love him. It started off when we put an offer in for a house to share (I was very excited, it was all my deposit that I'd saved but we were going to share the mortgage ).
Our offer was refused, and as I was about to raise it, he suddenly said he couldn't buy a house as he had debts. Huge debts that he hadn't told me about, to protect me.
I overcame my disappointment - houses are nothing, it is the people you love that matter, and set about helping him to pay off his debts.

Roll forwards a few years, and he cared so much about me, he didn't want me to be upset. So he lied about using prostitutes, joining swinging sites, having emotional affairs, sending videos of himself wanking to random internet women, etc. All of his lies were to make me happy, to protect me. Not selfish at all, oh no.

When I found out about him, I thought about it carefully for all of two weeks and then kicked him out. He whined that there was no need to split up, this was why he hadn't told me, so I could be happy, and so could he, it was for my own good.

I kicked his arse out, dated some lovely guys, and am now with one very special man.

Don't be me, OP.

Once a liar, always a liar - and there's always a selfish benefit at your expense involved. I should have dumped him at the first money lie.