H has been using massage parlour

[Happymassage]

Just that really. I am 35 weeks pregnant and upset is an understatement. I am a long time lurker and last week I checked his email and saw that he had messaged people on craigslist for massage services. I confronted him, he denied, saying 'you know I was researching that'. I called him on his bullshit (he did - a year ago), and then he said that he was looking into getting a massage with a handjob but did not go through with it. I told him I did not believe him, went mad at him (all via text unfortunately, as he was in no position to talk). He went to a work's drink thing that night, came back, would not speak about it, and I slept on the couch, getting only a few hours sleep. Next morning he said he would talk and admitted to visiting a place three times and getting a handjob at the end of it. I went mad on him, he seemed a bit remorseful, said sorry, but said he was stressed and it was just for stress release, that he did not see it as a sexual thing. Which I know is bullshit.

Thing is, I have been trying to engage with him sexually for months. He repeatedly turns me down, saying he is tired or that he feels uncomfortable because I am pregnant with his baby. So I feel really devastated, heavily pregnant, unattractive and rejected right now.

I have pointed out the STI risks, the moral/legal risks - this to me is a BIG deal paying for a service, using family money for an exploitation-based trade. He is evasive, and does not like to talk about it. He is away for the week unfortunately, so I am very limited in the contact, so I am left with my thoughts about how to deal with this bombshell.

It's not like we are a sexually prudish couple. Before pregnancy we actively involved others sexually. To me, it is lying and deception that is the issue. We used a site together which I then discovered he was using to contact others for his own needs (webcamming). I have caught him before on various dating/affair sites, where he has swore that he has never met with anyone and he uses them for webcamming (which is something which I said was ok, albeit reluctantly). I went mad about the sites and he said he would not do that again. All sites were deleted. Now he has gone that bit further in the lying and deception.

He is a very good husband in other ways, a great stepdad, very well house trained, caring. He has a high stress job too and several hobbies so he is very busy a lot of the time. He has been drinking a lot (at home) for the past few years. We have been through a heck of a lot together - some incredibly stressful family stuff that would break most people. We have both made sacrifices. As I said, it is a good marriage, apart from these lies. He thinks it is not cheating and has said he has never cheated on me. Every time I discover something else, I feel upset, then deflated. Perhaps because I am so heavily pregnant, this time I am at the end of it. If he cannot change, properly change, I can't see a way forward. That thought is scary as hell in my current vulnerable situation.

I have booked a relate session for us for next week. It all feels so cliched and seedy.

Thank you chattygranny, I do hope we can work things through, but I am going to be hardline about this with him.

I am just hoping that relate therapy will knock some serious sense into him and point out all of this.

But that's not how Relate works. The therapist is not an arbiter. The basic premise of Relate is that each person's feelings are valid. So if your husband goes in saying that he thinks it's valid for him to go behind your back for sexual release, that's what will be accepted by the therapist as being your husband's position. Up to you to decide whether that suits you or not, but the therapist will emphatically not be "knocking sense" into anybody's head. Only getting you each to open up about your needs, and asking you to find the common ground.

He said it is just the fact he feels uncomfortable knowing I have his child inside him and I should respect that.

Men who have a madonna-whore complex like this are always bad news. It's deeply rooted, and totally misogynistic. You are now the madonna where you were once the kinky sex provider (in his mind), so now he needs to find a whore outside the marriage.

A marriage is built on trust, if it is to work.

Lies break that trust, and therefore break the marriage.

If you can't trust him, then you don't have a marriage.

He wanted to get married, he wanted a child, he made sacrifices. Is that why you agreed to have sex with others within your marriage? I guess that part of your relationship was all his idea.

And now oddly, you are actually standing up for him. He works hard, he has a lot of stress. Anyone else would be kicking him out and getting sti testing pronto to ensure yours and your baby's health is ok. But no, you seem to think counselling will persuade him to be faithful and want only you again.

Sorry but this is not a relationship or a healthy environment for you or a child to be in. You just swapped one abuser for a more insidious one I think. I cannot understand why you would be happy with online activities let alone real life ones. You must have very low self esteem to tolerate this from someone who claims to love you.

I know the therapist is not going to give him a telling off (I am not stupid!). But it will force him to properly listen and hear everything instead of evading. The reason I stick up for the good sides of him is because of the hellish things we have been through together. My parents think he is amazing, his family are wonderful. He is very genuine. Just not about this Very Big Issue. It is not as black and white as all that. If it was, I would be gone. People are complex, as I know he is too. It is not about self-esteem either. I have dragged myself out of a very abusive situation where I was as low as someone can be. He has witnessed the tail end of that and helped me along the way too.

Smilingeyes, if you knew anything about my ex you wouldn't think that my H is more insidious! We mutually agreed to explore other things together, before we married and slightly into the marriage. It stopped when we decided to try for a baby, for obvious reasons.

I know my posts sound like me sticking up for him and you probably all want to hear that I will LTB and kick him out straight away, but that is just not realistic. I have a duty to this child to make sure that if we are in a relationship together it is built on trust and intimacy. So I have put the ball in his court now - if he wants that he is going to have to work on it together. I am seething with anger, upset and all the rest and he needs to understand the gravity of what he has done.

For what it's worth I've been through all this and it began with just a handjob excuses to a fully blown sex addiction to prostitutes that had been going on for years and years. That was why my h was emotionally shut off and distant and avoidant because he was leading a double life. He really thought he was entitled to do it and it was meaningless.
But not to me and it was like banging my head against a brick wall and made me ill.
So are you ready to battle with all this shit. He really doesn't sound like he's on the same page. Do not compare him to your previous abusive relationship because they are both toxic.
Men seeing prostitutes is spousal abuse.
My h was in therapy for years and never opened up. You and your little baby are worth more than this. If I were you I would leave him now. The good dh is a facade.

You also have a duty to your child to have stronger boundries than you seem to have. I think perhaps that you're at home in abusive relationships. Why should you fix this you didn't break it.
Believe me life is going to change when baby is born and you won't have a clue what he's up to. Can you really live like that? I did and it was hell. Don't put your baby through all this.
When you stopped being sexually adventurous he went elsewhere and a man who swings wouldn't just have a happy ending would he?
It seems to me you are being wilfully naive so that you don't gave to leave him and I fully understand.

You don't have a good relationship. He clearly does not have an ounce of respect for you.

Honestly he had probably been cheating on you for years. He is not a moral man so stop making excuses. You had already seen the signs of cheating yet you having a baby with him.
You should have had got rid when you found the dating sites. Now you have the baby this is your excuse to stay.

Op all you are doing is just wasting precious time of your life. You must know deep down that it's just a matter of time when you will be in this same position again, only then he would have done worse. Really your DH is of a certain type, you are in denial about him.
Sorry but their type won't change.
He may have good points to him, but those that make him a good husband and father aren't there.

Hi Op I have just read through the whole thread and it pretty much seems to be you against the rest.

What do you want out of your thread?

I am sure he has many brilliant characteristics, but ultimately what do you want from your posting?

Nobody can force him to listen. He will sit and blank it all out.

You do have an obligation to your child to bring him or her up in a trustful, intimate and loving environment. Unfortunately, he can't provide you with one.

You can push the decision down the road, but it just means you'll hurt more before you get there. And potentially your child will hurt, too, if you try to hold on until they are old enough to understand.

I do think therapy would be good, but for you, not for him. You keep saying he's good at some things. He probably is. Most people aren't all bad. Still, if I shit in half of your sandwich, it doesn't matter how good the other half is - as a whole; it's not good. Your ex may have been mostly bad. This man is half bad. You need a man that is mostly good.

Hi Drmorbius. I do feel attacked on here which does not feel nice, considering that I am trying to sort my head out. I know there will be lots of people saying LTB, but as I have said before I am 35 weeks pregnant, combined with the fact that I believe that he is a good person. I want to work out why he is doing this and whether this is salvageable. I don't have anyone to talk to in real life about this, my family are not in this country, so I have nobody to lean on and feel very alone in this. Honestly, I don't know what I want from this thread, but it is helping in some respects, hearing about other people's boundaries. I do feel affronted by the manner in which some posters assume I am naive, don't know what emotional abuse is - I can't elaborate but I actually do have a lot of experience in it. Everything feels on hold at the moment until he gets back this weekend, which is incredibly frustrating, being left alone with my own thoughts.

I'm sorry you are in this position OP

Long term, what you need to think about is - do you accept your DH cheating? (because that's what it is).

Are you prepared to live with that because in other respects he's a great H? (I understand what you mean).

Would you believe him if he says he won't do it any more?

What changes would you want to see in him? (complete transparency of his time and money?)

Happy I think it's totally understandable that you want to make it work. Both because he has a lot of very good sides and you have seen deal with tricky situations in the past and he did very well. And because, let's face it, you are ready to give birth. The last thing you want to do now is organise a divorce.

I agree with the counselling. This will help both for your relationship and for you to clarify what you are and aren't ready to accept.

You've said before that the lies are unacceptable for you. But also that you aren't prepared to get divorced over that - you want to work on it.
You'll have to decide for yourself what it is you really want to do. Where you boundary is.
Is having a hand job similar to have an affair/sex outside the marriage? Is that acceptable for you?
Is telling you lies (even by ommision) OK? How much is it OK for him not to tell you and where does it start to be a no-go area for you?
I'm actually pretty sure that counselling will bring a lot of questions for you too and will make you think about what you are happy to live with and what you aren't.

But actually, I would give yourself time. Now is not the time to rehash your entire relationhsip. You are tired (end of pg) and will be even more so in the next few weeks/months. There are already lots of changes happening. I would say that what you need first is a very rough idea of what you are expecting from him at the moment before you can tackle the issue head on.
Maybe no more webcam, massage etc... and him being fully involved in your life because you need SUPPORT from him at this stage. And maybe too some agreements NOW about what will happen once the baby is here (let's say going back home staright away from work and going out for one of his hobbies only once on the week or only for 2 hours whatever you think you will working for you) as well as how much involved you expect him to be (eg changing nappies, giving the baby a bath, getting up at night etc etc).

By any mean, start counselling but remember that you are particularly vulnerable at this stage and therefore more likely to say YES I accept that to things that actually aren't acceptable to you.

This is soo depressing. This is who he is, accommodating him hasn't contained him it's only enabled him to expand his sexual horizons.

Relate won't 'make him see' because in his mind he doesn't have a problem. He's not broken, the problem is your reluctance to accept that your H wants sexual gratification on his terms only and with no questions asked. He lies because he doesn't want his behaviour to be challenged and lying accomplishes that goal. In his mind your, hurt and pain are self inflicted because you can't accept that this is who he is.

He's acting like a single man in a relationship and I doubt a child will change that because the precedent has already been set, whereby you've enabled him to opt of the parts of your relationship that don't interest him so he can pursue pursuits, that do. Parenting, just like your sex life could well be a pursuit that he's to 'busy' for.

I'm sure he's lovely in many respects but in this respect, this is who he is and you can either accept that this is the price you pay for the 'good' bits, or drive yourself crazy trying to rationalise something you don't like and can't fix.

At this stage your individual need for counselling is greater and has a higher chance of getting a result that will benefit you and your child.

Hi Op, first and foremost no big decisions have to be made in any timeframe other than one of your choosing. You are about to have a DC, the health and wellbeing of you both is your primary concern at the moment. Everything else can wait.

Moving forward, I agree with the points raised by Daisygarden. It's about how you can handle the future. What is beyond repair for you no one else

From my perspective - I would ask your DP if he thinks what he did was cheating? He may not think it is. It's hard to explain but a hand-job may not seem cheating to him.

Bless your heart, I do feel for you.

You don't see that you have jumped from one EA relationship straight into another.

As you aren't ready to face this yet, all I can suggest is counselling, plus STI tests.

Good luck with the baby

OP

It's a very difficult time and your current vulnerability only adds to it. Sorry for how you're feeling and that you feel attacked here.

I personally believe that a marriage should be worked on and that you don't throw it away or give at the first sign of trouble, but this isn't the first or second time... it's not really even the third sign from what you've said here.

How many second chances does one get?
Because it seems that your husband actually takes it even further after every discovery. It's just escalating and even with the best will in the world, it's only a matter of time before he progresses to full intercourse.

What you might get now is endless promises from him, but if he is addicted to that kind of behaviour, he will simply find ways to hide it from you.

You can do as some betrayed spouses and have all passwords, get track my phone, use GPS , demand suprise polygraph tests and ask for photographic evidence of his whereabouts in real time. But who wants to live this way?

Some say it's the only way they feel safe. You have a baby that's going take up so much of your time and energy and can't play detective and police him.

You also can't change his mindset. If you can't trust him to control his urges, what hope is there for your marriage in the long term?

What if you aren't able to have sex after the birth for some months.

I think one of the issues is that his view of all this doesn't match with yours. If he'd have no issue (as you said) with a male masseur rubbing you to a happy ending, then he won't see it as a big deal.

Here's situation similar to yours

www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=585255

The thing is, OP has only just discovered this information. It will take time to process. Added to which she is heavily pregnant. I think posters should bear all this in mind. Can some people try to be kinder? It's not that you shouldn't give an opinion, but OP's world has been shaken up so let's try not to add to her stress by being stark and harsh.

After posting, we all go about our daily business (and our own problems of course) but OP is left to deal with all the opinions, some of which have not been presented as kindly as possible especially in light of her pregnancy, which is a vulnerable time.

Thank you Daisy, you understand completely. I am still processing all of this and feeling very teary right now. He has deleted everything to do with his webcam habits already and did so straight away. I console myself with the fact that he volunteered the info about the three times off his own back. He could have continued to deny but he didn't. I am not one to just put off talking about this because of circumstances - I would much rather deal with absolutely everything as soon as possible. He is the opposite and thinks things through carefully first.

Sandy I think part of the problem is that I put up a boundary (no dating websites for example) and he complies. Then he does something completely different. The underlying thread is the deception and inability to communicate.

I know his character and I fully believe that he finds it all as escapism and it has nothing to do with our relationship. Which of course I disagree with wholeheartedly.