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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Has DH got problems or is he just an arsehole? Help with how to help him (and me)

116 replies

thepandastortilla · 23/07/2016 22:38

I'll start by saying H is very successful, despite his qualities (listed below.) He has worked for decades in international companies and according to ex colleagues, miraculously stopped just short of getting fired for his behaviour most days. Now he works for himself and still miraculously manages to keep the money coming in. I believe this is because he has a strong support network of people, especially me, his parents, his brother and a few loyal friends, who absorb his behaviour.

People have told me he displays all the qualities of someone with ADHD. Others have told me that he is potentially on the spectrum. Sometimes I feel that he is just a total arsehole. But I am exhausted from it all. Please tell me what you think - these are some of the things that happen:

He gets severe and sudden sensory problems: hunger, tiredness and thirst that must be immediately dealt with. Everyone has to stop what they are doing and help him. The same with changes of temperature, loud or quiet sounds, or smells. He gets very affected in a v short time, so can go from totally fine to freaking out unable to breathe from frustration the next. It can change an entire day or turn a whole situation that is supposed to be focused on someone or something else (a DC's birthday for example) on to him. I have been on a plane with him and the plane has had to be landed because he freaked out about a sound and was worrying people with his erratic behaviour. But he does not seem to foresee or prepare for these scenarios. Like he will not eat breakfast. Or he will wear the wrong clothes. Or he will not take any steps, away from the environments situations to tackle his reactions.

He has daily meltdowns, sometimes several a day. His emotions are so fragile that someone says or does something minor and he cannot let it go, deal with it or be talked down. It can mean hours of shouting, violence (towards objects) furious correspondence, phonecalls, in extreme cases doorstepping people, wild accusations, threatening litigation and massive escalations of the original problem. He forgets to eat/drink he is so upset and then has one of his sensory episodes (like above.) These dramas always trump everything else in our family life and render him totally useless. If I comment on this and how frequently it happens or ask him how he thinks he can prepare for it in the future I get accused of not caring about him and the things that "happen" to him.

He finds it impossible to judge any social situation. He walks into a room of people, talking very loudly at them upon entry about whatever is going round in his brain. No gauging the room, no reading the atmosphere, no seeing whether there were already other conversations going on. He just steers everything on to his present obsession. If he comes up against an equally dominant personality or is uncomfortable he will come to me, announce he wants to leave and have a meltdown (like above) if I don't want to leave with him, or tell him to go home alone.

He has no sense of the noise he makes and can't do anything quietly. Ironic considering his problems with sounds other people make. He will slam doors and crash around at 4am when everyone is asleep. He will speak loudly outside the DC's rooms when I've just got them off to bed. He will walk into a room of people having a conversation and start to play a video on his phone. I will be asleep and suddenly realise i am awake, because he is playing a news video (he follows the news obsessively). If I tell him it is not acceptable he says I do not understand how important this news story is and how this news story effects me as much as it effects him. He has an Armageddon mentality sometimes, believing the world is about to go to war which he uses to justify his insistence on his view. The latest obsession was the coup in Turkey which he was checking on every 1-2 minutes through the night.

He is forgetful and careless. He is always the person whose phone goes off in a funeral, at a wedding or at the cinema. When he gets the inevitable "looks" from fellow audience members he perceives them as a threat, confrontational or hostile and has a meltdown (like above), escalating the problem. He doesn't notice if the fuss he makes ruins the ceremony or performance.

For any event outside of the house, he will ignore any instructions about timings, routes or customs, then find he is blocked or gets lost, or goes the wrong way despite everyone's attempts at preparing him for the process, providing instructions, issuing maps, for months beforehand (which he denies they ever did.) My chest tightens whenever he or we receive invitations with complicated instructions or important timescales because i know despite my efforts to prepare him we will not make it.

He disobeys or does not "see" signs or rules. I can guarantee if a sign says "this way" with an arrow, he will go in the opposite direction. Or if it says an area is out of bounds, he will deliberately walk into it. When he gets caught he says he didn't know. He gets away with a lot of "one-offs," because people only see that one time. Only I know that they are not one offs and he habitually breaks rules. I just don't know if he notices the rules in the first place.

Lateness: if we have to be somewhere at 10 and it is an hour drive, the DC and I will be packed and ready at 9, call for him and he will start getting ready at 9. Shower, find clothes (where's his shirt? Tie? Clean trousers?) I will have reminded him about it the night before and the two days before that and begged him not to be late, but he will have forgotten. I will have set an alarm and woken him up but then he will have threatened a tiredness sensory episode and so I will have retreated. We normally arrive anywhere between 30 mins-1.5 hours late to anything we go to. Weddings are the worst because we usually miss the ceremony because he is not ready.

His emotionally volatile days ensure that he cannot interact with the DC in any meaningful way (3yo and 20 mo) nor meet their needs. They both find him emotionally unpredictable and will often not go to him and hide behind me when he calls them.

Driving: he has multiple speeding offenses. He was banned from driving once for a few years, now he's back on the road and losing points again. He doesn't indicate, doesn't obey traffic lights, doesn't keep his eyes on the road, he drifts into the layby or near to the barrier on a motorway. He drives over two lanes with the white line going down the middle of the car. He always misses turnoffs. He speeds up when the car in front's break lights go on. We (DC and I) no longer drive with him.

He is nocturnal. There is no night of sleep i have had in my life with him where I could safely say when I wake up he would be still in the bed next to me. He is usually watching the news (like I say, he is obsessed with the news and the potential end of the world,) eating or working. This means he gets episodes of tiredness and sleeps a lot during the day. As you can imagine, all the sensory circumstances have to be right for him to sleep in the daytime which is very hard on me with 2 DC who want to play. Again, i feel it is my responsibility to enable this to happen - otherwise he will have a meltdown creating an even bigger problem for me.

Why am I with him? He is brilliant at what he does. He is top in his field at it, and he is fascinating to talk to when he gets going. He's so intelligent, life with him is often quite exciting; travel, opportunities etc. He is very loyal. He tells me every day that I am the love of his life and he doesn't know what he would do without me.

His eccentricity was beguiling at first. Before DC we could both do our own thing with no responsibilities, and I wouldn't suffer any of the fall out from his issues because i could take a break and go off somewhere and do something else during his meltdowns. But having DC with someone, as I've learnt, changes everything and we are now in a dynamic where I am the rescuer.

Post DC, I have taken responsibility and he hasn't. I now wait from minute to minute wondering what is going to happen next on the roller coaster of our lives that I will have to absorb. I spend my time managing, enabling, containing and placating him to keep the DC's lives as normal as possible.

Also I find that I am filled with anxiety over what will cause the next meltdown and how it will affect my life. Will he accuse the next friend I have round of wearing perfume that is making him ill? Is he going to do something today that will get him in trouble because his meltdown gets out of control and I'm not there? Can I really go to that birthday lunch my friend asked me to reserve a date for months ago without him having a huge meltdown over something that day which requires me to completely stop what i'm doing and talk it over and solve it for him?

I know the obvious solution is to just not engage, to leave him to deal with it and take care of me and the DC. But if I do not step in as rescuer, it escalates until it becomes much worse to do nothing. Sometimes he can work himself up to a point where he is crying and banging his head against a wall. Or he is shouting at me and blaming me for not caring about him or not being on his side. I don't want the DC to have to see this, so it's always just easier to placate him and try to calm him. If I did just walk off with the DC when he started kicking off, things would escalate and he would probably perceive me as leaving him/taking the DC away and god knows what he would do.

After some recent extreme meltdowns I have asked him to take some kind of mental health/behaviour assessment after I've done my research. He has begrudgingly accepted. We will pay privately. What should I get him assessed for?

OP posts:
Offred · 23/07/2016 23:43

He sounds like an adult version of my nine year old too, she has just started on the pathway towards diagnosis but CAMHS are pretty convinced it will end in ASD diagnosis.

Also my current BF is a vastly less bad version of this - he is ADHD and I have often thought ASD.

I think you are codependent. You have become enmeshed in his dysfunction.

Agree with others that the only important thing is that your DC are scared of him and need to live separately from him. He needs to take responsibility for sorting out assessments etc sounds like everyone in his life is enabling his maladaptive coping mechanisms and unless that changes and he has to make some changes he'll not improve.

It is pointless you getting him to do assessments etc. He needs to be engaged with the idea of looking after himself, not being looked after by you, for it to work

waddleandtoddle · 23/07/2016 23:45

You used the word "feel". That's the bit he doesn't and will never understand fully. You should sort logistics around that fact.

Doinmummy · 23/07/2016 23:48

It is not your job to 'fix' things . I really think you need to get an exit plan in place . I bet you'd be surprised at people's reaction , especially if his behaviour has been discussed at length . I'd be surprised if people judge you harshly for leaving him and if they do then they aren't very good friends .

You say he might harm himself - that is not your responsibility , he is responsible for his own actions .

Mellifera · 23/07/2016 23:48

Threatening or going through with self harm as a reaction to something you say or do is abusive, you know that?
Whatever the reasons behind his behaviour, it is way, way off any scale of normal.
Getting out would be extremely difficult and potentially dangerous for you, as he completely seems to lack empathy.

Offred · 23/07/2016 23:48

I think TBH your best bet is involving services.

Your DC are scared of him if they treat him as a stranger (DC behave that way around strangers because they are anxious). He is their dad, that is not normal or OK.

If he has a meltdown you call the police and an ambulance. Especially if it involves him hurting himself. You need to stop being responsible for him and he needs to come to the attention of services that could actually help him.

Offred · 23/07/2016 23:51

And yes there will be a report made to SS because you have children in the house but don't be afraid of that.

I call the police/ambulance when my DD has meltdowns that are dangerous and it has resulted in us as a family getting a lot of support from lots of services - SS, CAMHS etc

category12 · 23/07/2016 23:56

He has problems.

But now you have dc. Put them first.

Stop throwing them under the bus. And yes you are when you downplay their fear and confusion, and are constantly placating him beyond reason.

Step up. Protect them. Get the fuck out.

Doinmummy · 23/07/2016 23:57

I agree Offred sometimes you have to let things get as bad as they can before they can get better .

You need to stop trying to manage this, stop trying to keep all the balls in the air - let the balls fall.

sansXsouci · 23/07/2016 23:59

Your description of how you bend over backwards to facilitate the life and work of an impossible but talented man who makes evermore ridiculous demands reminded me of the book 'Life With Picasso' by Francoise Gilot (One of Picasso's partner's/mother of one of his children).

He clearly does have MH issues, but you will end up loosing yourself and your identity to this very egocentric man. Whatever you and he believe he is not more important than you and your DC.

blackcherries · 24/07/2016 00:19

I know this isn't really the main point, but God I'd be worried he's going to kill someone driving. Can you do anything to stop/get the police involved or somehow get him to stop driving?

Goodasgoldilox · 24/07/2016 00:24

Wow - you, DC's and DP do have a tough break!

I wonder what you would like to do? It is difficult - but if you felt that you really did have complete freedom - what would you do?

You sound to be a strong person. (You have coped with impossible behaviour and found ways of managing.) However, it would be perfectly reasonable for a stong person to ask for help to change things. You and the DCs could do with more adult imput!

The part that worried me in what you said ' If I said I wanted to live apart, he would probably have a huge episode and harm himself.' This is a classic 'threat'. If you heard that someone else was being manipulated in this way, I'm sure you would recognise how wrong it is.

I'm glad that you are getting others involved here.

All the best for the future.

KindDogsTail · 24/07/2016 00:32

Autistic
Psycopathic
Narcissistic
Passive-aggressive
Obsessive compulsive
He possibly has some food intolerances mixed with what used to be called hypoglyecemia in the US (unstable blood sugar with peaks and troughs and mood swings)

mathanxiety · 24/07/2016 01:02

My vote is for arsehole.

Probably a psychopath or extreme sociopath. Most likely a narcissist too. If you're going to have him assessed (all sorts wrong with that btw) put personality disorders on the top of the list of concerns. He might have MH issues too. He could have a full house.

It doesn't actually matter. Stop intellectualising this. Stop doing research. Get back in touch with reality and stop denying it. Intellectualising and researching are ways to keep reality at arms length. Maybe you are afraid of the decisions you will be forced to look at if you stop running away into your own head and just ask, 'How is all of this affecting me, and more importantly my children?'

I agree 100% with Offred. You have become enmeshed in his dysfunction. You must step back and call emergency services when he has a meltdown. Ask for an ambulance to take him for an emergency MH assessment.
He has daily meltdowns, sometimes several a day. His emotions are so fragile that someone says or does something minor and he cannot let it go, deal with it or be talked down. It can mean hours of shouting, violence (towards objects) furious correspondence, phonecalls, in extreme cases doorstepping people, wild accusations, threatening litigation and massive escalations of the original problem.
This has to be dealt with by police, ambulance and hospital professionals. You cannot take onto yourself the burden of all of this when you have two little children to parent.

Your only concern here should be plans to leave and how you arrange custody for your children, because your children are being traumatised. The only reason to get an assessment for him is to figure out if they would be safe with him to do standard visitation when you divorce.

Your children do not find him 'baffling'. They are frightened of him. Children the age yours are do not waste time indulging their inner armchair psychiatrist because they do not have one. They only have their own brief experience and their instincts to go on.

I was married to an H who shouldn't have been allowed to drive and thought the rules of the road were for other people, disregarded planning permission rules (never mind that our house was our only investment), wouldn't eat all day and came home ravenous and angry, was 'volatile' and the children were afraid of him. Extremely bright man, bachelor's degree in an obscure language and masters focusing on documents in yet another one, even more off the map, and a professional degree on top of that. Where I'm going with this is - you've described in your H's personality is not that unique or special a set of really piss poor, maladapted traits.

People can be wonderful and really bright without making their families miserable. I have a cousin with a postgrad degree from an Ivy League university, a leader in his field, who is the beloved father of a wonderful family and now the grandfather of five lucky tots.

I'm not belittling how this is affecting them though, because I know from my own childhood, even living in an atmosphere of anxiety where one parent is placating the other, is very harmful.

I don't even know how to start tackling this. His family, friends and I talk about him a lot and the way he is. I get a lot of support from them, but I don't know how much support I would get for leaving without even trying to fix things or having an intervention
Forget analysing your H.
Pick up the phone and find a counsellor for yourself who will enable you to stop being a codependent and start being the parent your children need. It's not enough to be their shield through the constant fray. You have to lead them out of the danger zone. Women's Aid number is 0808 2000 247.

I recommend Women's Aid because this is all abusive:
But anything I do causes a massive ripple counter-reaction. Even expressing the way this makes me feel will cause a panic/meltdown in him. And the more I pursue it, the more I don't let him get away with fobbing me off, I get a reaction that is x1000 my own.

He can create "extreme" circumstances very quickly. Eg if I said I wanted to live apart, he would probably have a huge episode and harm himself. There are no circumstances in which I can get him to listen to me. He hears the action and never the reasons or the thoughts behind them.

There is nothing special, wonderful, or unique to any of that. All abusers seek to make their victims feel they have no options. Yours is no exception.

mathanxiety · 24/07/2016 01:04

[ what you've described in your H's personality is not that unique or special, just a set of really piss poor, maladapted traits.]

Hillfarmer · 24/07/2016 01:23

I get a reaction that is x1000 my own.

He can create "extreme" circumstances very quickly. Eg if I said I wanted to live apart, he would probably have a huge episode and harm himself. There are no circumstances in which I can get him to listen to me.

Hi OP,

As others have said, it doesn't really matter what is causing this behaviour, the main thing is that this behaviour is extreme, is damaging to you and your children and is ultimately intolerable. You seem to be coping at the moment, but nobody should have to cope with this. I can't believe that the nice bits outweigh the awful bits. You must be on tenterhooks the whole time which must completely sap your morale and energy.

If he has a panic/meltdown if you discuss your feelings, then he is very effectively shutting you down. If his response is x1000 of your own if you raise something quite reasonable, then you must be afraid of bringing anything up.

If you considered yourself less important than him or a human being with fewer human rights than him, then it would be all right. Assuming you don't think that, then I should think that you believe no-one should have to shoulder this much responsibility for another adult. You really must start to prioritise yourself and your children here. They are the most important thing and you are the secure parent, not him. They need you to ruthlessly protect them.

He may have HFA, but so might my XH. Unfortunately my H behaviour after we had dcs was offensive and nasty. He would be 'x1000' if I ever disagreed with him, and always made it clear that he could be far angrier and nastier in a row than I could - as if that is a sign of being right. I felt for a long time that there was something seriously wrong with him - abuse in his past or just depression/paranoia/anxiety. But he held down a job perfectly well and treated other people ok, it was just at home he turned into a domestic terrorist. In the end I stopped trying to work him out because just realised that I just had to get out of the relationship for the sake of my children and my sanity. It really doesn't matter in the end what is bugging him, if the upshot is misery all round.

It is outrageous that he expects you to live under this pressure. He treats you appallingly and you are like a puppet on a string. This cannot be right.
You sound like a strong and intelligent person. You need to think seriously about not living with this man before you are so ground down that you don't have the strength to get out of it.

Good luck.

You need proper professional support and advice. Go about discreetly getting some for yourself. Go to your GP and do go and see a solicitor about where you stand. I really think that at some point - given the length of your OP and your detailed catalogue of what you're up against - you will have to split up with this man. It will be a matter of your emotional survival, he will destroy your personality eventually. Sorry to be so negative. It won't be easy. You want to fix him. You can't and you are not responsible for him. You have to act 'selfishly' on behalf of your children. And it is not selfish. It is ensuring that they have the family life they need and deserve, as do you.

SatansLittleHelper2 · 24/07/2016 01:29

He does sound quite severely Autistic to me. As in the effects are huge (( rolls eyes at those suggesting he's just an arsehole, the obsessive news watching alone indicates he has major issues ))

Poor sod, he's gone his entire life with getting support. I really hope you can encourage him to get help, not suggesting you should stick around if he refuses. I know I couldnt live like that and I have 2 asd teens (( neither have managed to land a plane during a meltdown but one stopped a train recently ))

MatrixReloaded · 24/07/2016 02:50

He sounds like a narcissist.

thestamp · 24/07/2016 03:58

Jesus Christ. Your poor children. Please, for fucks sake take control and get them out of there. Don't try to explain it to him, just go. You can't argue with someone like this. He's not your partner in life, you're his nurse.

I'm finding it really difficult to muster sympathy for you in that you had not just one but TWO children with him? I'm sorry but you've made so many horrendous mistakes here. The only answer now is to take the children and get as far away as possible from this man.

Newmanwannabe · 24/07/2016 04:28

The stamp that is really mean and not what the OP needs to hear. Don't you think she already has enough pressure in her life?

And yes she has two. But they are both very young and close in age and I would guess these problems only really started to become evident when she was already pregnant with the second. Sometimes what is blaringly obvious to the outsider sneaks up on you when you are living it, people adjust, make excuses and live with situations without realising how difficult it actually is.

Flowers for the OP

Kr1stina · 24/07/2016 05:12

It seems to me that your not his wife, you're his carer. Which is fine . And I can see that it was ok when you had no kids .

But now you are also ( effectively ) a single parent to two small children . And the two jobs are incompatible . So you need to choose . Because this is no life for you kids and you know it .

They may not care now about missing events and having planes landed because dad is having a meltdown . But they soon will . They don't deserve to live like this .

BoGrainger · 24/07/2016 06:41

Bloody hell. Get this fucking maniac off the road. I don't care what diagnosis he has or will get he has absolutely no right to disregard the lives of others.

Why does the fact that he's 'clever' make it 'ok' for him to abuse his family and friends with no come back? People with autism have to learn to live in the real world even if they don't always understand what they are expected to do. Op's dh is being allowed to override and overrule everybody that he comes into contact with like a tantrumming toddler. Get help and support op for yourself and your dh.

GrimmauldPlace · 24/07/2016 07:06

Has your DH been this way since childhood? If so, did his parents never seek help for him?

It does sound very much like autism/adhd/spd. I have a DS with all of those and your post with the sensory triggers and social immaturity etc just remind me so much of him. I have no doubts that without the help my DS is getting now he could quite easily turn in to an adult like your DH. If your DH has never had any interventions then it's quite possible he's never really learned how to behave appropriately. He needs help, but he needs to accept the help or there's no point.

So whilst I do have sympathy for your DH, I have more for you. You sound as though you are at breaking point. You can't live a life like this. Neither can your DC.

Sendmylove · 24/07/2016 07:07

This is way beyond normal. I'm surprised he has never got in trouble with the law if he has such disregard for rules and the feelings of other people.

I agree it sounds like ASD or psychopathy. I have a similar teen ds, complex diagnoses including ADHD. I often say the whole world revolves around him as there is chaos wherever he goes although he has not grounded a plane yet.

Does he have any awareness of his behaviour op? Does he reflect on things after the event? (My ds will calm down and say sorry in his own time although it doesn't change his behaviour next time.) for what it's worth I don't think my ds will ever be able to live independently as he and others around him would not be safe (already a lot of care and support in place.)

I agree with pps that analysing it all is pointless really although a diagnosis might help eg if there is treatment or medication.

I have no idea how you live like that but more importantly it's not a healthy, safe or happy environment for your children and whatever the consequences, I think you should leave.

Anniegetyourgun · 24/07/2016 07:15

I read the thread up to this point

I know from my own childhood, even living in an atmosphere of anxiety where one parent is placating the other, is very harmful

and went "Aha!" out loud. Do I need to spell it out? Freud where art thou?

OK, you know it wasn't right, but you have also to a certain extent normalised that dynamic - no really, you've posted a long list of ways in which you recognise it is not normal, but nevertheless you're living with it and saw it as stable enough to bring children into at the time (ah, hindsight eh?). The children may or may not be afraid of him as such, but there's no doubt the insecurity, the uncertainty, the lack of confidence in one of their parents will be having a major impact. Children need to feel secure in their own homes. This is not what security looks like.

It does sound as though he can't help quite a lot of it, and/or wasn't brought up to manage his own reactions to things. Understanding isn't the same as living with it, though. If you had an elephant in your garden it wouldn't be its fault that it's too big to turn round safely, that it knocked the wall down, ate your trees, trampled your flowers and left huge steaming turds on your lawn. It's an elephant; it's what they do. It's probably a very nice elephant. However, anyone who wasn't brought up with a garden full of elephants is going to wonder why you don't pick up the phone to the zoo or the RSPCA or somebody and get the damned thing shipped out of there ASAP.

notarehearsal · 24/07/2016 07:29

With little doubt I'd think that, with particular regards to the emotional dysregulation alone, he has Borderline Personality Disorder. Only a referral to a Psychiatrist would be able to diagnose though and it doesn't sound, as is usual, as if he appears to think there is a problem.
And before I get jumped on, I do have many years experience both living and working with this disorder
Good luck and, even if it's out of interest only, have a Google for BPD

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