I don't know what to tell my children

[KrakenAwakes]

Short version. DH and I married 10 years. DH caught having affair just before Christmas. Him and OW were discussing how they would raise our DC and also sharing many photos of them online at work and using social media. I kicked him out and we booked relate, went a few times in Jan. He secretly kept seeing other woman and vanished in mid Feb. At Easter I reached out and he was upset and desperately wanted to go to relate. I booked and paid for double session. He didn't show - found out he was at hers. Solicitor filed for divorce. He never showed to mediation. Shit got weird. He has been warned for harassment. Finally showed to mediation so now we are going some time in August. He's not bothered with either kids birthday, never asked how they are or told them he loves them. The OW is spouting off at work (we have a mutual acquaintance) about the bitch of an ex wife (me) who won't let him visit his kids and she can't wait to be the best step mummy in the whole world - bought outfits for them etc etc

Kids (2 & 5) not seen him in 5 months, oldest has little communication - all relevant agencies involved state no contact until ex agrees to work with dc1 needs and it would start with supervised contact. Both DC 'clingy' and hysterical if I leave, comes in waves but oldest is very anxious about change and has been described as disturbed.

But they want to know why daddy left. And after 5 months I have run out of patience with waiting for ex being able to 'develop a story together', I am adamant I will not lie to my children and so far have with great restraint not spoken badly of him.

1. Keep repeating current line - Daddy made a bad choice (this is used at school) and sometimes when we make bad choices we feel very sad inside and have to hide for a while

2. Daddy decided that he didn't want to be married to mummy anymore and made some other friends

I can't say he has been poorly (as my DC will worry, especially the oldest), they don't buy the line he is at work, and when he went that awful day in December he foolishly told my oldest that he had hurt mummy very badly and had to go. They only saw him 4-5 times after that (although I did make him visit on Christmas Day) because he just wasn't bothered to arrange anything. I am absolutely terrified if I make the wrong decision now then I will lose them to lies when they get older. They are still so very young I feel I have to tell them something.

What worked for you? Especially if this happened to your parents - what do you wish you were told or not told?

That above was to Happy.

sarcasm yes softened it does make more sense. I literally lie awake at night thinking about this, my feelings and emotions don't even get a look in. Everything is focused on them. It has to be. Neither can as yet dress, toilet, cook or travel independently. I am mummy from 6am - 8pm and neither sleep through!

I would leave all emotion of who left who and whether he's living with someone else out of it...

"Sometimes grown ups decide that they can be better mums and dads when they live in different houses. Mummy and daddy love you very much but we aren't going to live together any more".

If you go down the road of "daddy left mummy" you will likely cause them to (a) feel angry at dad and (b) worry about you.

I'm not saying you should protect your ex at all but having been through this with my DPs kids I can honestly say their mums desire to "tell them the truth" (her words) really harmed them. She started with "daddy's leaving because he doesn't love us", then went to "daddy doesn't love me". This was all true but didn't help the kids. At the age yours are they don't need to know the detail. They will ask and work it out as they are older.

I don't quite understand why they aren't seeing their dad though?

I was very much older than your two when my Dad buggered off Kraken - late teens. And I still wished (and wish) my Mum had sanitised things or even lied to me a bit. Obviously you're not going to start oversharging in the way my mum did with me but imo children need to know they are loved by everyone important. They will come to their own conclusions later and if they realise you lied they will no doubt also realise that you did it to protect them and to give them the vest chance of rebuilding a relationship with their dad in the future.

Practically - presumably at some point your ex said to you/ them that he loved your DC? Then you can factually say that 'daddy always said you're the best thing ever/ you're a star/ he loves you to the moon and back' or whatever works. Factual reporting of things he said in the past (and they may even vaguely remember) and not based on his current actions?

I agree with not saying you stopped loving each other if it isn't true, but could you say you decided not to live together because Daddy had found somebody else he wanted to move in with? But reiterate as pps have said (albeit somewhat harshly) that it's to do with you/him and not them.

If they ask if/ when they'll see him - be honest and say you don't know. That you'd like it if they could see him soon but that it's difficult to organise, without making it explicit that he's the one making it difficult.

though OP. Sounds like it's horrible for you atm.

They did see him, 2/3 times a week but when I found out about the affair not in fact ending then he vanished completely until mid June when he finally replied to my solicitor as to where he was living. As yet he's not asked after the children.

OP how can he not want to see his own children? Crikey.

Thank goodness they have a mother who sounds brilliant

And I would make sure that your mutual friend with OW tells her - and other colleagues - in no uncertain terms that your H hadn't even bothered asking after his kids and that you would of course allow access in their best interests.

I wouldnt tell the children that daddy loves / still loves them. That should be down to him to say. Also, he clearly isnt showing it and inwouldnt want them to grow up thinking thats what love is.

Sympathies op 💐

I liked what someone said unthread about how you don't know what's in daddy's head, but you know what's in your head so you will never make a choice that would take you away from them.

Mate of mine's dad left after an affair when she was in her teens. Her mother explained it as "your dad doesn't want us anymore. He'd rather be with OW".

She's always said that as a child she very much heard that as "your dad doesn't want you" and that's a very big thing to lay on someone young. I think maybe that's what the earlier poster was getting at with 'he doesn't want you, not he doesn't want his kids'. Sorry if I've phrased this badly too.

ExH stopped contact in a very brutal way, DS and him were very close before and after the split (we split when he was four) , but his second partner is a very controlling and aggressive person who didn't like DS much. DS's dad is the kind of person who will chicken away from confrontation so he just kept quiet or went to another room, when his partner was verbally abusing his 6 year old son,

Over the years, I have tried to raise DS without hate. Don't get me wrong, exh was such a bastard with DS that my heart is full of hate, but hate ruins your life so I have tried not to let DS go in the same route as me. The worst thing you can do is hurting your children by getting their heads full of resentment towards their dad.

You don't need to lie, they don't need to know that his dad "took a bad decision" or that "he doesn't love his mum anymore". That is terrifying for children so young.

Tell them the truth, in an age appropriate way, they don't need to know how bad things were, it is enough for them to know very little so you can give them other parts of the story, as they grow up and when they are ready to digest it.

What worked for DS at that age was:

Q: Where is dad/when am I seing dad?
A: I really wish that I could tell you, but I am afraid I don't know myself (let them talk for a bit, then distract them with something else, park/Ice cream will do)

Q: why is he gone?
Mum and dad were not getting along very well, and as you have seen, we were not very nice to each other so we thought it was better for dad to move out.

Kids feeling miserable? Just ask them "how do you feel, and let them talk, don't ask questions but answers theirs kindly (see above) and when the conversation is dying down, propose to do something nice.

Before he stopped contact, exH was very unreliable with contact, so I prefered NOT to tell DS his dad was coming, to avoid him feeling miserable if he didn't show up.

The big truth is that being abandoned by dad is a huge tragedy, and they will find it difficult to understand why his dad acted that way. Your role is not to inform them their dad was a bastard (even when you, the world, and their dog knows he IS). Your role is to undo the damage he has caused as much as you can, so they can grow up as happy as they can and in time, develop healthy relationships.

I wish you all the best in this difficult route. It has taken me years to accept it, but I know now that exh disappearing from DS's life was actually a blessing in disguise. I cannot imagine how much more damage he could have inflicted on DS if he had stayed in contact.

Thank you all - much to digest and my phone screen doesn't allow for much individual response so apologies. Would this work?

Q: why is he gone?

*A: Daddy doesn't want to be married to me because he has met a different woman and he now lives there. Daddy will always be your daddy. People can change husband or wife or friends but you can't change your mummy or daddy. I can't explain what daddy is thinking, but I can promise that I will never leave. I don't know when bit I hope you will see daddy again one day. Now.shall we have a hug and go to the park?"

^first draft

I think it is perfect from where it says " Daddy will always be your daddy" but I think the first part is really bad, sorry.

You are hurt, it is normal you want to make sure he is to blame, that is true but an awful thing to say to such young children and so soon after he left.

And that part of "I hope you get to see your dad one day again" fucking hell!

I was blending the advice I've been given throughout the thread to get that - a simple no you could do this or that would suffice.

I have no friends who have been through this. The two who have separated have remained amicable and in fact both found new partners quite swiftly but there was no affair. I've simply nobody to run this past other than here.

Once I've gained a 'most people thinks it's ok' spiel it will be sent out to be used by my family and friends as well as school (oldest has sen) so I know it is absolutely vital for me to get this right.

That sounds like a good draft, but will your 2 year old understand any of it? That's a really young age to process any of that.

With the 5 year old, it's okay, but it's still a young age. An age appropriate way I've heard recommended, is that "mummy and daddy made special promises to each other when we got married. Daddy broke one of those promises and that's why he doesn't live here anymore."

That's it. No more.

You don't give them info on what promise he broke. If they ask, you tell them it's a bit hard to explain while they are so young. Reassure them that it's nothing to do with them.

I'm not sure if your 5 year old is mature for their age or just as a normal 5 year old, but that recommendation is for 6 years up and it is meant to explain why mum and dad aren't living together, but where they'll still be active in their lives and not just abandons them.

I do feel for you OP. It's a horrible situation, with such young DCs made worse by him abandoning them in the process.

Do you think he's filled with guilt and shame and that's why he's not seeing the DCs? It's a crap excuse even if he does feel that way.

You sound like a strong woman. I'm sure this has been a nightmare for you, but you the only responsible parent they have right now.

Does your WH have any family you could talk to about this? Who could get him to see the DC.

Unfortunately his family have sided with him.100%. Apparently he wouldn't have done it if I'd worked harder to keep him happy. It's not an avenue I want to go down. My mother, sisters and aunt have each offered to supervise contact but he informed them all. I do think guilt played a part in abandoning us but he was never particularly involved in their lives, I did everything for the DC.

Younger DC probably would understand some of it. I'll have a think, DC2 barely noticed him going but still asks regularly where he is.

Ignored. Not informed. I must go to bed!

Sorry OP I accident deleted the thread from my watching, I see you asked my opinion

I'm just going to catch up on what has been said

I really don't understand why some PP have been so unkind, what you are going through is so very difficult.

You must have a world of emotions for your own feelings, but you will be using all of them to try and protect your children.

You must at some point also be kind to yourself

The DC in my life are now 9, and they haven't seen their mother for a year, she dips in and out via calls and we get lots of questions from them after these calls about when will they see her (really not helped that two months ago in a random call she said she would see them at the weekend, then they "misunderstood" what the weekend meant and then for the next six weekends she had plans) we just say, daddy will hear from your mum when she will be able to see you.

When they were younger, she did originally walk out when they were very little (this is second hand as I wasn't with DP) he would just reinforce how much he loved them and that his love was unconditional. If they asked does "mummy" love us he would say yes, but maybe in a different way to daddy. HTH with your tiny one, at 2 they really won't know what is going on.

Lots and lots of moments were DC thought dad may also leave, at 4/5 when she popped in again lots of playing up, he just kept reinforcing that he wasn't going anywhere he loved them unconditionally.

I first started seeing DC, not long after at 5 (I was the only lady DP introduced to DC) they did get to the point where we were practically living together that they got worried when I would go to my home that I wasn't coming back.

This woman really did something very bad to these children and continues to do so, but we just scoop them up and let them know we are not going anywhere!

That's all you can do I think, tell them you love them unconditionally, reassure them because of this your not going anywhere, tell them daddy decided to move away but you will let them know when he can see you but that you love them unconditionally.

I really hope this does help in someway

There was no OW in my case because my XH's cheating was with prostitutes. There's no sanitised version of that!
My child was 4 nearly 5.
At the time, she really liked Disney princess stuff (thank god that phase has passed!). Useful at the time then.

I said "honey, you know the films you like where they find their "one true love?". Well, mummy and daddy realised that actually we're not each other's one true love... and so we'd be happier not being together".

I didn't care if that made it look like it was an equal decision. I won't even say equal blame, because I made sure not to say anything that suggested it was wrong or that there should be blame to apportion.

Maybe it helped that with the cheating, no - I didn't love him.

But I really think that at this young age, there is nothing to be gained by telling them it was his choice not yours, or that he's done it to live with someone else. At their age, they already know about friendship, that one day you want to play with one kid, next day another. I presented it factually as a change, different, not good or bad. (I actually made it sound exciting but that was the timing - me buying a new house)

I do like the suggestion above that you don't answer for him -" I don't know, you'll have to ask daddy that one - who fancies the park?"

Ok. Forget his family then as they can't be sensible about it. Typical blame the wife syndrome.

I also don't support lying to the kids, but I don't know any 2 year old that would really understand any of this.

Mostly they would ask for Daddy and if they don't see him for a while they'll soon stop asking. He'll soon fade from the memory of a 2 year old, except where the child still sees photos or of people around still talk about it.

You have your proof of trying get him to see them and one of the main things is that they know it's not their fault and equally as important that you will always be there.

If they ask why did dad say this or do this .... you say you don't know. Just like (for the 5 year old) he /she maynot know why their friends at school do currently or z.

Hmmm I'm thinking along the lines of (depending on the actual question)

I don't know why Daddy hasn't arranged to see you but he will always be your Daddy (because hopefully he will get a grip and eventually sort out regular contact)

when they ask where his is:

Daddy will always be your Daddy but he wants to live with a different lady, called x, instead of with me.

OP - I can see you feel bitter towards ex (understandable) but I don't think it will do anyone any good by explaining it with blame to him.

I've heard the Disney "one true love" one on here before.

In all the break ups I have seen (not too many admittedly) the ones where the kids have come out best is where the parents have been amicable in front of the kids and where neither parent has blamed the other.

Saying "daddy didn't want to be married to mummy because he didn't love her anymore" just caused my DPs daughter to ask her dad "why didn't you love mummy?" - awkward position because the truth in age appropriate terms is "she didn't like daddy having fun or being happy. Mummy didn't let daddy have hobbies and she wasn't very kind to him" but that just paints mum in a bad light! DP just said that sometimes people change and don't love eachother anymore (and then got a lecture on how you're supposed to be married forever!)

Anyway - my point is that a "blame neutral" approach seems to work when they're young. They'll figure it out for themselves and you can use your own support network to get it all off your chest.

Would you not contact him direct and say "are you going to see your children?" And try and work something out with him or isn't that possible? I might have missed it but I don't see why you can't do that - for their sake.

I did contact him directly. Lots. No responses. I had already spoken to a family law solicitor as we have a vulnerable child and I wanted to ensure right from day one I was doing what I should for her wellbeing. Once it became evident he wouldn't speak to me I hired her to do the chasing. He ignored her too until June. It has cost me almost 3k so far to chase gum.

While cestlavie's wording in that one place would, I'm sure, have hurt, I actually think her post was spot on.