I don't know what to tell my children

[KrakenAwakes]

Short version. DH and I married 10 years. DH caught having affair just before Christmas. Him and OW were discussing how they would raise our DC and also sharing many photos of them online at work and using social media. I kicked him out and we booked relate, went a few times in Jan. He secretly kept seeing other woman and vanished in mid Feb. At Easter I reached out and he was upset and desperately wanted to go to relate. I booked and paid for double session. He didn't show - found out he was at hers. Solicitor filed for divorce. He never showed to mediation. Shit got weird. He has been warned for harassment. Finally showed to mediation so now we are going some time in August. He's not bothered with either kids birthday, never asked how they are or told them he loves them. The OW is spouting off at work (we have a mutual acquaintance) about the bitch of an ex wife (me) who won't let him visit his kids and she can't wait to be the best step mummy in the whole world - bought outfits for them etc etc

Kids (2 & 5) not seen him in 5 months, oldest has little communication - all relevant agencies involved state no contact until ex agrees to work with dc1 needs and it would start with supervised contact. Both DC 'clingy' and hysterical if I leave, comes in waves but oldest is very anxious about change and has been described as disturbed.

But they want to know why daddy left. And after 5 months I have run out of patience with waiting for ex being able to 'develop a story together', I am adamant I will not lie to my children and so far have with great restraint not spoken badly of him.

1. Keep repeating current line - Daddy made a bad choice (this is used at school) and sometimes when we make bad choices we feel very sad inside and have to hide for a while
   
   
2. Daddy decided that he didn't want to be married to mummy anymore and made some other friends
   
   
3. 
   

I can't say he has been poorly (as my DC will worry, especially the oldest), they don't buy the line he is at work, and when he went that awful day in December he foolishly told my oldest that he had hurt mummy very badly and had to go. They only saw him 4-5 times after that (although I did make him visit on Christmas Day) because he just wasn't bothered to arrange anything. I am absolutely terrified if I make the wrong decision now then I will lose them to lies when they get older. They are still so very young I feel I have to tell them something.

What worked for you? Especially if this happened to your parents - what do you wish you were told or not told?

[mix56]

I would send him one last letter (& same to OW.)
Saying you have now spent 3K on trying to get him to be involved in his children's lives. The kids are hurting, & asking for him. You have done everything in your power to arrange for XH to see them. But as of the end of the month, you feel that any more lying, or wasting money will stop.
He can attempt to be a man & a father, but he needs to decide now.

& to bitch OW, add, You have never refused access, & she can fuck off.

[cestlavielife]

You might find it helpful to talk face to face with a counsellor and / or family therapist . your gp can refer. In my area ypu can also get a 45 minute consult over phone eith child psychologist which I utilised and found helpful when youngest dd had v conflicted feelings about my exp her dad .

[KittensandKnitting]

Men should just be "leaving" their wives but in reality some arseholes do leave because of their children. I have no doubt my children "mother" also left because she didn't really want to be with my DP and she also didn't want to be a mother. If they didn't leave the children too these types of NRP would be fighting a lot harder to see their children.

My father left because he didn't want to be a father, he would have happily stayed around I think if it was just my mum. It is utterly heartbreaking what these "parents" do

[confusionoftheillusion]

I understand what the poster meant though - that men who leave their marriages leave their WIVES not their kids.
In this case by definition of not seeing them since he has left his kids...

Either way my heart aches for these kids who have to deal with the fact dad doesn't want to see them and the fact that their mum is left trying to explain this in a way which causes them least hurt :(

[Jengnr]

None at all. But there's no good in harshly pointing out something to the OP that isn't true either. All it does is make her feel shit,

[confusionoftheillusion]

Yes he has left his children by definition of not being arsed to make the effort to see them since.:.

But what's the good in saying that to them?

[Jengnr]

Not only is it brutal to say, it's not true either is it? He HAS left the children and, whilst I don't advocate pointing that out to them, it is where the OP is and she has no idea how to manage it for that very reason.

[RandomMess]

Well Op it does sound like your H has done you all a favour in the long run.

I think it sounds like depending on the question your earlier thoughts of

"Daddy has made some choices I don't understand" is also a suitable response.

I'd stop wasting your money chasing him. Let him do the legwork if/when he wants to resume contact.

If you haven't already read it I suggest reading "How to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk" because I think it's also a case that your older DD will have mixed feelings - sadness and anger towards her Dad and you can help her voice them and understand that it's ok to have them.

[KrakenAwakes]

I didn't really want to list the things he did when we were marred because ultimately I didn't stand up to him at the time and it will skew responses. I'm also not about to add them in as it is drip feeding.

He wasn't the best dad but he was their dad. He wasn't the best husband either. But he was my husband. I nearly broke myself trying to be the best wife I could knowing he left his first wife and wanting to keep him.

I just wanted to find out what others could tell me about how I go about reducing as much as possible the impact on my two children. For the advice to insist on reminding me he left me not the children is brutal - I know that and think about it daily. But again I try to counter that with the fact the issue was him not me. I did nothing wrong in this marriage, no arguments, no dissent, sex on tap and always putting him first. Always. I was effectively a doormat. To be reminded he rejected me makes me return to those dark days of feeling it was my fault. His behaviour was and is horrendous to me and to our children.

[confusionoftheillusion]

What a poor excuse for a father.
I'm so sorry you have to deal with that for your DCs.
I don't know what I would say about why their dad isn't seeing them (not helpful I know!)

[KrakenAwakes]

I'll come back as well to respond to the long and very helpful messages too. Just juggling Saturday morning chaos.

[EarthboundMisfit]

While cestlavie's wording in that one place would, I'm sure, have hurt, I actually think her post was spot on.

[KrakenAwakes]

I did contact him directly. Lots. No responses. I had already spoken to a family law solicitor as we have a vulnerable child and I wanted to ensure right from day one I was doing what I should for her wellbeing. Once it became evident he wouldn't speak to me I hired her to do the chasing. He ignored her too until June. It has cost me almost 3k so far to chase gum.

[confusionoftheillusion]

OP - I can see you feel bitter towards ex (understandable) but I don't think it will do anyone any good by explaining it with blame to him.

I've heard the Disney "one true love" one on here before.

In all the break ups I have seen (not too many admittedly) the ones where the kids have come out best is where the parents have been amicable in front of the kids and where neither parent has blamed the other.

Saying "daddy didn't want to be married to mummy because he didn't love her anymore" just caused my DPs daughter to ask her dad "why didn't you love mummy?" - awkward position because the truth in age appropriate terms is "she didn't like daddy having fun or being happy. Mummy didn't let daddy have hobbies and she wasn't very kind to him" but that just paints mum in a bad light! DP just said that sometimes people change and don't love eachother anymore (and then got a lecture on how you're supposed to be married forever!)

Anyway - my point is that a "blame neutral" approach seems to work when they're young. They'll figure it out for themselves and you can use your own support network to get it all off your chest.

Would you not contact him direct and say "are you going to see your children?" And try and work something out with him or isn't that possible? I might have missed it but I don't see why you can't do that - for their sake.

[RandomMess]

Hmmm I'm thinking along the lines of (depending on the actual question)

I don't know why Daddy hasn't arranged to see you but he will always be your Daddy (because hopefully he will get a grip and eventually sort out regular contact)

when they ask where his is:

Daddy will always be your Daddy but he wants to live with a different lady, called x, instead of with me.

[SandyY2K]

Ok. Forget his family then as they can't be sensible about it. Typical blame the wife syndrome.

I also don't support lying to the kids, but I don't know any 2 year old that would really understand any of this.

Mostly they would ask for Daddy and if they don't see him for a while they'll soon stop asking. He'll soon fade from the memory of a 2 year old, except where the child still sees photos or of people around still talk about it.

You have your proof of trying get him to see them and one of the main things is that they know it's not their fault and equally as important that you will always be there.

If they ask why did dad say this or do this .... you say you don't know. Just like (for the 5 year old) he /she maynot know why their friends at school do currently or z.

[Cabrinha]

There was no OW in my case because my XH's cheating was with prostitutes. There's no sanitised version of that!
My child was 4 nearly 5.
At the time, she really liked Disney princess stuff (thank god that phase has passed!). Useful at the time then.

I said "honey, you know the films you like where they find their "one true love?". Well, mummy and daddy realised that actually we're not each other's one true love... and so we'd be happier not being together".

I didn't care if that made it look like it was an equal decision. I won't even say equal blame, because I made sure not to say anything that suggested it was wrong or that there should be blame to apportion.

Maybe it helped that with the cheating, no - I didn't love him.

But I really think that at this young age, there is nothing to be gained by telling them it was his choice not yours, or that he's done it to live with someone else. At their age, they already know about friendship, that one day you want to play with one kid, next day another. I presented it factually as a change, different, not good or bad. (I actually made it sound exciting but that was the timing - me buying a new house)

I do like the suggestion above that you don't answer for him -" I don't know, you'll have to ask daddy that one - who fancies the park?"

[KittensandKnitting]

I really don't understand why some PP have been so unkind, what you are going through is so very difficult.

You must have a world of emotions for your own feelings, but you will be using all of them to try and protect your children.

You must at some point also be kind to yourself

The DC in my life are now 9, and they haven't seen their mother for a year, she dips in and out via calls and we get lots of questions from them after these calls about when will they see her (really not helped that two months ago in a random call she said she would see them at the weekend, then they "misunderstood" what the weekend meant and then for the next six weekends she had plans) we just say, daddy will hear from your mum when she will be able to see you.

When they were younger, she did originally walk out when they were very little (this is second hand as I wasn't with DP) he would just reinforce how much he loved them and that his love was unconditional. If they asked does "mummy" love us he would say yes, but maybe in a different way to daddy. HTH with your tiny one, at 2 they really won't know what is going on.

Lots and lots of moments were DC thought dad may also leave, at 4/5 when she popped in again lots of playing up, he just kept reinforcing that he wasn't going anywhere he loved them unconditionally.

I first started seeing DC, not long after at 5 (I was the only lady DP introduced to DC) they did get to the point where we were practically living together that they got worried when I would go to my home that I wasn't coming back.

This woman really did something very bad to these children and continues to do so, but we just scoop them up and let them know we are not going anywhere!

That's all you can do I think, tell them you love them unconditionally, reassure them because of this your not going anywhere, tell them daddy decided to move away but you will let them know when he can see you but that you love them unconditionally.

I really hope this does help in someway

[KittensandKnitting]

Sorry OP I accident deleted the thread from my watching, I see you asked my opinion

I'm just going to catch up on what has been said

[KrakenAwakes]

Ignored. Not informed. I must go to bed!

[KrakenAwakes]

Unfortunately his family have sided with him.100%. Apparently he wouldn't have done it if I'd worked harder to keep him happy. It's not an avenue I want to go down. My mother, sisters and aunt have each offered to supervise contact but he informed them all. I do think guilt played a part in abandoning us but he was never particularly involved in their lives, I did everything for the DC.

Younger DC probably would understand some of it. I'll have a think, DC2 barely noticed him going but still asks regularly where he is.

[SandyY2K]

That sounds like a good draft, but will your 2 year old understand any of it? That's a really young age to process any of that.

With the 5 year old, it's okay, but it's still a young age. An age appropriate way I've heard recommended, is that "mummy and daddy made special promises to each other when we got married. Daddy broke one of those promises and that's why he doesn't live here anymore."

That's it. No more.

You don't give them info on what promise he broke. If they ask, you tell them it's a bit hard to explain while they are so young. Reassure them that it's nothing to do with them.

I'm not sure if your 5 year old is mature for their age or just as a normal 5 year old, but that recommendation is for 6 years up and it is meant to explain why mum and dad aren't living together, but where they'll still be active in their lives and not just abandons them.

I do feel for you OP. It's a horrible situation, with such young DCs made worse by him abandoning them in the process.

Do you think he's filled with guilt and shame and that's why he's not seeing the DCs? It's a crap excuse even if he does feel that way.

You sound like a strong woman. I'm sure this has been a nightmare for you, but you the only responsible parent they have right now.

Does your WH have any family you could talk to about this? Who could get him to see the DC.

[KrakenAwakes]

I was blending the advice I've been given throughout the thread to get that - a simple no you could do this or that would suffice.

I have no friends who have been through this. The two who have separated have remained amicable and in fact both found new partners quite swiftly but there was no affair. I've simply nobody to run this past other than here.

Once I've gained a 'most people thinks it's ok' spiel it will be sent out to be used by my family and friends as well as school (oldest has sen) so I know it is absolutely vital for me to get this right.

[MeMySonAndl]

I think it is perfect from where it says " Daddy will always be your daddy" but I think the first part is really bad, sorry.

You are hurt, it is normal you want to make sure he is to blame, that is true but an awful thing to say to such young children and so soon after he left.

And that part of "I hope you get to see your dad one day again" fucking hell!