Is my husband nasty & mean or am I completely at fault?

[gummychops]

Just need some perspective as I don't know what to do.
We've been together 5 years, married for 2, & have a 5 months old who we both adore. Were both fairly long in the tooth (I'm now 38 & he's 46) when we met, & fell madly in love very quickly. I love him to bits most of the time, but he's a nightmare to communicate with, & we can't discuss anything contentious without it turning into an argument.
If something has annoyed me, or we've had cross words, I'll want to talk about it & let him know why it annoyed/upset me. But he just wants to forget it happened & move on. To me, that just harbours resentment & means the "issue" will likely keep recurring.

Our latest barny started like this: I put baby to bed last night. (Nearly always me doing it as DH works late) As per usual, he fought going to sleep in bedside cot, wailed for ages, & eventually fell asleep snuggled up beside me on bed. As he nodded off, I suddenly had revelation that maybe bedroom is just too bright for him, with light curtains & facing evening sun. (Maybe this should have occurred to me sooner....doh!....) So when I eventually got back downstairs I reported my (hopefully) genius revelation to DH, saying I would try putting something darker over window to see if it helped. Note: DH was in the throes of a college assignment with a midnight deadline, but in fairness he had left it to the last minute as per usual. But he had asked how bedtime went, & I only planned to tell him re curtains idea & then leave him to work. Anyway, he dismissed the whole notion, started saying "I think we're putting him to bed too early" - kept repeating this, (we're not - it's usually between 7-8pm), "what's the big deal?"(doh! - baby is wailing & upset & obviously it's not nice for me either) He started saying "why don't we just keep baby downstairs until he's sleepy?" (we/I do!). Also, when it's him putting baby to bed if I'm out (twice!) "he just brings him out for a walk maybe at 9pm to get him to nod off , why can't we just do that every night?" I explained again all about bedtime routines etc, which he should know. He was obviously getting frustrated with conversation & saying "what do you want me to do???!!". I didn't want him to do anything! I just wanted to mention curtains idea, & didn't appreciate him suddenly questioning & criticising the whole bedtime routine I had been trying to establish 😞To clarify, baby sometimes goes to sleep easily enough, but has been bad every night for past week.
I left the room, then called into him asking when he was ready for dinner. He grumpily said he didn't know, I said "well, are you hungry?, again a grumpy "I don't know, I'm not hungry, I'm busy, I'm under pressure" So of course I got cranky & said "I'm only trying to help!" I warmed up dinner & gave it to him, popped in once or twice to see if he wanted a cup of tea, but was stand-off ish & obviously still annoyed.

Sorry this is so long! Fast forward to today, & we're both civil with each other but not exactly friendly or affectionate.
I tried to start a conversation by saying "you were a bit stressed last night". I planned to then let him know I was upset about direction conversation took last night, & ask why was he suddenly questioning & criticising bed TIME all of a sudden, & let him know why it pissed me off.
That's not how our discussion went tho! Before I'd barely got a word out, he blew up at me. Apparently, he "wasn't stressed!!!". He was "under pressure!!!" I said, ok I was just trying to be supportive (i.e. re making dinner when he wanted it) Apparently I should have just made it & handed it to him. (N.B. he's not a caveman, he does most of the cooking) And "I wasn't being supportive, I was trying to cause an argument as usual".
I barely got to say a word for the next few minutes....he started getting really angry, saying I'm always looking for an argument, that's my pattern etc, why can't I just leave things. He wouldn't let me explain why I was upset. I was crying & at one point he sneeringly complained about my "pathetic whining". When I tried to ask if he meant the crying, or having a moan about the baby the previous night, he really blew up. Apparently I was always asking questions, interrogating him etc. Why couldn't I just "reflect on my own behaviour". He also called me a moron & a psycho at various points.
I tried to say, as I've done during/after previous arguments, that we just deal with conflicts differently - I want to discuss, he wants to ignore, why can't we compromise or maybe get some help from a counsellor blah blah blah... But when he's like this he just won't listen to anything.....
But also, if I try to suggest same when everything is rosy between us he says it's unnecessary, every couple falls out etc etc....why am I bringing it up, almost getting annoyed...

Sorry again this is so long, but I have 2 main questions.
How do we improve our communication when we're so different or should I just adopt his way of ignoring every conflict/issue as he's unwilling to change?

Is it ok for one person to say such horrible things (moron, psycho etc) in the heat of an argument, & then expect the other person not to be seriously considering divorce?

OP I actually think your H is a total wanker. Life doesn't have to be put on hold for him just because he left an assignment until the last minute. I would seek counselling as a couple personally. You can't live like that.

Thanks Hill, Silver & everyone else for the supportive replies. I am willing to take on board the negative replies also, as maybe they represent part of his perspective.

I was so upset about everything that I immediately made an appointment with a counsellor, something I've been thinking about doing for a while. I saw her first thing yesterday morning. Left the house before he was awake & stayed out all day as I felt we needed space. We did exchange a few texts about the baby. I tried to meet him outside his work (he starts in afternoon) for 5 mins, which we often do if I'm walking past, so he could see baby as I knew he would miss not having seen him all day. Due to phone dying we missed each other though. Just filling you in on this so nobody thinks I was punishing him by kidnapping baby for the day.

Counselling session went well but obviously I'm going to a few more to explore my/our issues. Didn't tell him about counselling as I feel he would say something like: "Yeah, you really need to talk to someone so you can sort your head out & help you deal with your issues". Cos in his mind it's all my fault of course.

I think he would have been ready to move on this morning i.e. just act normally as if nothing had happened. Maybe I should have gone with that. That's what I normally do at this point. I tell him I love him & that I hate fighting, & he says "Well, don't then". I say I'm sorry for anything I've done to annoy him, he says sorry, & we kiss & make up. BUT same sequence of events happens again next time we disagree/fall out/get cranky with each other.

So this time I'm torn, & unsure whether I should take a stand/persist for once.

I said I was going out for day again, I didn't know where, cos I needed to do some thinking. I asked had he been thinking. He replied "yes", with a "here we go again" sigh. We're going away for the weekend, first flight with baby, to visit his family. I asked did he still want to go. He said "of course". I should have just left it, but I was itching to know if he was in any way remorseful. So I asked why he wanted to spend time with me when he thought I was a psycho & a moron. How could he say those things to someone he supposedly loved? He got pissed off & said, "well stop acting like one"
I shouldn't have stirred it up again, I know. Of course he's now more convinced than ever that I'm argumentative....

"Shouldn't have stirred it up" my arse! The more you post, the more it seems as though he's already well down the path of convincing you that you're in the wrong for not just putting up and shutting up.

Counselling is an excellent idea and congrats on going ahead with it so quickly. Hopefully it'll help you work out when this pattern of behaviour began and whether you're prepared to put up with it...

Well done gummy. Counselling is a good option to get your head straight. Otherwise you won't know if you're coming or going.

And do read 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus' too, really, I think it might be the answer. And it's only a couple of quid.

Sorry but he should NEVER call you names like that, that's just horrible and nasty, in fact it says more about him than you - I'd not let that one rest and tbh, if he called me a name again I would consider separating, it shows a massive lack of respect for YOU!

Do not let him fob you off, he sounds a nightmare to communicate with, stand your ground, you did feck all wrong.

OP. He was being mean. You do not deserve to be called names.

Gabilan "I think it's also telling that having been told by many that your behaviour could be irritating, you want to go along with the handful saying it isn't".

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply but I don't think the above makes any sense. Surely, even in RL, if someone asks for opinions on an issue they are going to latch on to people who agree with them & their rationale! I'm hardly going to readily agree that I'm "annoying" or "irritating" as some posters said, & tell all the posters who were on my side that they're wrong & I am actually a cranky mare who's hard to live with.
With DH, I did what I did & said what I said because I believed I was acting correctly & reasonably. I didn't deliberately try to be a pain in the ass. Only a sociopath deliberately behaves in a way that they believe is wrong.

When you;ve just had a baby - everyone is so tired that i think the ability to communicate suffers.

I think you made a small thing into a big thing, but you did it because you feel that generally you are no communicating.
He doesn't see that, so just sees you picking up on a small thing. Hence his anger. Hence your anger. He was unkind. But neither of you were kind/supportive either.

I think you need to work out what you used to do together before the baby and how you used to communicate. If it was over dinner, then work out if you are ready to leave the baby to go out to dinner together (perhaps locally) . If you can't do that you could say - on x day - i'm going to cook a special supper at home - so we can pretend we are out.. then set the table, candles etc.. make a real effort.. Dont raise anything controversial and if htey converaion goes in the wrong direction, change the subject immediately.
Talking when you are not arguing is everything. Even if you niggle at each other, say at least 2 nice things for each problem.. it take a little while (and effort) to start to be kind to each other again.

OP to be clear, I said that your behaviour might be considered by some to be irritating. I know some people on here are blunter, but I was commenting on specific behaviour, not you as a person.

Whilst it's not comfortable hearing people say such things about your behaviour, actually sometimes I will take on board that kind of criticism. We'd never change and evolve if we only listened to people agreeing with us.

Anyway, I hope the counselling is helpful. Much better to be face to face than reading randoms on the internet Also, calling you a psycho is not on, no matter what.

You sound like you can't stop yourself from agitating and prodding till he gets exasperated and blows up. Negative attention better than none? Explore that with counselor.

In husbands shoes I'd be fed up with the constant navel-gazing.

I suspect he was quite different with you in the first year. I can see why after 5 years, he's an ass with his replies. You are relentless and that's my impression after a few posts! I think you are both at fault. Yes, he is very unkind in he way he speaks with you. However, I suspect he feels under constant attack / scrutiny / criticism (which you don't mean) and he thinks he is only defending himself.

See if you can learn how to rephrase what you want from him in a different way. If he responds same way - he's a dick. If he doesn't - then you have a fixable commutation issue you BOTH need to work on. Neither of you can sort this alone.

LilacInn - you're just determined to be nice aren't you?

Thanks to everyone for their advice & support. Someone said that I could do with a hug - thank you for that. It really was what I needed. In common with many OPs I'm sure, I came on MN cos I don't want to discuss this with any of my friends or family. Mostly out of loyalty to my DH. I'd hate him to be perceived by them as a mean bastard, before I've figured out that possibility for myself.
I met him today outside work, so he could have 5 mins with baby. We were civil with each other & reasonably friendly. And of course my heart melted when I saw him cooing over our DS! He's such a loving, besotted Daddy. I rubbed DH's cheek & he then gave me a hug. So I caved, as I always do, & said I loved him, & he reciprocated. Maybe it's for the best at this point. The stand-off couldn't last forever....

Going over and over discussions is irritating in the extreme. If I have a disagreement with my bf, we both have our say, and either that night or the next day will apologise and discuss it calmly or agree to differ. We don't rake over the coals of the old disagreement, what's the point.

I agree that you sound like hard work. Surely you have enough empathy to understand he would have been pressured at the time. Couldn't you just have said 'ah not much fun, he was a bit whiny - cup of tea?' when he asked how bedtime was?! Don't you get he was asking out of courtesy rather than wanting chapter and verse on curtains? (which you were presumably expecting him to buy and/ or put up).

The time to talk about black out solutions was once his work was finished. And even then, he would be within his rights to disagree with you - parenting is a joint venture, why doesn't he get a say? As for the other poster saying her views carried more weight than her husband's because she'd read baby books, good grief. I managed to raise 2 children without reading a single baby book, going to any classes etc. They really aren't the be all and end all, nor do they make you a more knowledgeable parent.

Trouble is, he hasn't said sorry for verbally bashing you. He hasn't even accepted it's wrong. Or that if you get upset it's because he's been rude to you (not because you're 'tired' or sensitive in some way). At some point you need to talk about this calmly with him and tell him it's not acceptable. But really, he should know this already.

Well, they didn't both get their say, did they? If they had, it wouldn't be an issue.

I'll bow out now gummy but nothing anyone else has said has changed my opinion in the slightest. I suspect the 'hard work' crowd have not had to deal with emotional abuse, which is of course a very good thing!

For some reason, threads seem to continue to go in the tone set by the first couple of posters. If the first posts had been understanding, I think the thread would have taken a very different tack. So don't worry too much about the 'majority view' in this or any other discussion here!

And yes, leave him well alone when he's up against it - he should have a chance to explain his side of it calmly. Just don't accept the blame for his choice to name call.

It doesn't sound like he has much respect for you.

You telling him you don't like being called x and y, and his reply of "Well, don't act like one then", just shows how much contempt he has for your feelings and for you as a person.

Do you want to be in a relationship where you are not an equal partner, but a misbehaving junior who can be freely berated?

Silver I have actually been in an abusive relationship where I was subjected to longterm emotional/ verbal abuse - stuff like telling me I was a fucking ugly fat cunt/ dirty slag/ useless lazy bitch/ unfit to bring up a child...I could go on but you get the picture. He used to spit on me, shove/push me, smashed up my belongings and on 2 occasions hit me. Most of those times he wasn't even angry.

I wouldn't describe the OPs (very different) situation as emotional abuse, just someone flying off the handle at a time of stress. In the DHs position, I may not have namecalled but I would definitely have sworn. Several times.

I'm with you OP you need support from DH and aren't getting it. The counselling will give you a different way of trying to get the best out of him. He could be behaving like a petulant, spoiled brat and able to recognise and change his ways through you tackling and challenging him once you've gained confidence- or if his behaviour towards you worsens and he resists bring in an equal, respectful partnership then you will have to rethink your relationship. You come across as alone but level headed to me. Even if you don't confide in RL make sure you do get out and about which will help you tackle indoors.

Please take on board Hillfarmer's post OP. She is really hitting the nail on the head here.

The problem is that if you always back down in this sort of situation with this sort of man, you will find yourself treated less and less like an equal, and more and more like a kind of inferior being. It is tempting to back down in order to avoid these horrible gut wrenching arguments, but it will get worse and worse as your child gets older as you won't want to argue in front of her, so you will back down more and more quickly...

I would continue with the counselling, but remember he has NO RIGHT to call you these vile names. People defending this type of verbal abuse need to take a long, hard look at themselves!

And be very clear, OP - this is bullying. You don't deserve this - stand firm.

Velvet spoon
I'm glad your current relationship is good - the way you & your bf deal with arguments sounds ideal.
Didn't you read my post? The next day my DH wasn't willing to "apologise" or "discuss it calmly" or "agree to differ". That's all I wanted..... He blew up at me before I'd barely got a word out!

And where do you get the idea I was giving him "chapter & verse" on curtains?? As I've said a few times, when ASKED how bedtime went, I said something like: "Difficult, as per usual. But I think I might have an idea - blackout curtain lining. It's too bright in there." End of conversation & back to work for him as far as I was concerned. Hardly a long speech! I didn't get the Harry Corry catalogue out!

HE chose to continue the conversation, by disagreeing & coming up with other solutions. Of course he had a right to disagree! But he chose to prolong the conversation at that point, & start picking holes in other parts of the bedtime routine. It's not like this was the first time we had ever had a conversation about difficulties getting baby to sleep. He found it really difficult & distressing hearing our DS wail at bedtime too. But HE chose this occasion to suddenly dismiss/criticise how I had been doing things.
I can see how he did this cos he was under stress of work. But he didn't seem to get that I wasn't asking him to solve the bedtime problem there & then. I had simply mentioned a new idea - end of story. I wasn't asking/expecting him to do anything!

And you assume I expected him to buy & hang the curtains?! No idea why you would assume that....??? I do all the DIY in the house, & I've already bought & hung the blackout lining. I'm not some useless ninny housewife who expects her husband to do the "manly" jobs.