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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Broken relationship with son

93 replies

Namechanger65 · 06/06/2016 07:29

I'm not sure how or if I can fix this.

Son is 25, he was an extremely difficult teen, young adult. Expelled, arrested, charged with afray. One morning the police knocked on the door at 6am, arrested him. One of the officers said in front of me, "why are you acting like you do, you come from a nice home, your other seems like a good person, you should see some of the houses I go to" I'm just trying to demonstrate we are just normal people.

We tried everything for him, counselling, talking, liasing with the school etc. I was never out of that school. One of the things that he would NEVER do was accept blame. One time I went to the school and eleven teachers had written notes saying how unacceptable his behaviour was and he still argued and argued and argued that he didn't misbehave. He never accepted his behaviour was wrong, he never accepted punishment without world war 3 irrupting, he was such hard work.

There were 100s issues at home with him, he would call the police and tell them he was being beaten and he wasn't. He was screaming one day, stop hitting me, stop hitting me, I was sat outside in the car and he was alone in the house,. My neighbour came out and bless her took me into hers whilst I cried and gave me coffee and a shoulder. He was ALONE in the house.

As things got worse as he got older, he would push his father, me and out other son, things were turning really nasty, he was now a man, he had to leave. Things improved with some distance between us, he would come round once a week, it was "bearable". Last year he was involved in a potentially serious accident, we went to the hospital, he was discharged with the proviso that he stayed with someone for 48 hours. He was fine with us in the hospital, the second we were out of the hospital grounds, he was vile, saying he didn't want to stay with us, he hated us, he would rather be dead than stay with us, we were XXXX. I would not drop him home, I was worried and wanted him to stay. He called a cab and went home, nothing we could do. He did actually contact us the next day, I was strong and told him straight then, I would never put up with this type of behaviour again, that I had hoped that his violent and aggressive behaviour against us had stopped. That this was the last time and that would be it.

We do lots for him, he has to his credit got himself a good job and lives in a rented flat. We always try to help him, he had to come home for five weeks whilst between flats we managed to deal with it, he tries not a bit, five weeks not so much as an offer of him making us a cup of tea. I or my husband always included him in meals etc, he offered not a penny.

The latest incident is, he needed some specialist clothes for work at very short notice, didn't have the money until payday. So I paid for were delivered to me, I dropped them to him in the evening. He then didn't need them so we could send them back. He had been to our house, when OH dropped him back, he asked him to put the clothes in the boot so we could return them. He out half the stuff in the boot, typical of him, not his problem, etc

We discovered this about 36 hours later when taking them out to take to the post office that day., I've he put it in Monday evening, we were dealing with it Wednesday morning, OH was off, so it was a convenient day. We needed the stuff back quickly as it was close to cut off time to return. OH called irritated that on his one day off, he had to now drive over to his flat to get the clothes to,return. OH was not nasty, he was irritated and was like "you've only given us half the stuff, now I've got to come over and take time out of my day" , I was in the room, so I know. Well our son went mad, saying we were aggressive, nasty, vile etc. He cannot be told anything ever! He put the phone down, so I text, leave the stuff outside so your dad can collect it, let me know it's done as it is a massive pain anyway and if it's. It there to make it worse' he sent back a string of vile texts, telling me to piss off, That just because we do nice things, we only do it to make up for past misdemeanours, we have not right to speak to him like we do (again dad was irritated not abusive!) we are nasty vile people. He also fully seems to believe that we took 36 hours to manage to think of something we could have a go at him about, that we were looking for an issue!!! None of this is true of course, we were packaging it up then as OH was off the day. He honestly accuses us of the most bizarre things.

I've not contacted home for three weeks now, I worry about him and feel sad.

OH knew I was upset and contacted him on Saturday, again he has it ingrained in him that we are wrong. He is convinced we only do nice things for him so that we can "have a go" at him. It's just so far wrong I can't tell you, he seems totall convinced that we are trying to be nasty to him etc etc.

im not sure what anyone can say, but I'm sad and miss my son. I don't feel I can contact as his shouting and screaming will just lead to another arguemnet. But his anger and nastiness to us is almost like an illness. We are honestly normal parents, this attitude was shown in his schooling as I said previously and also he was a scout member and whiltst wanting to go, caused absolute mayhem and trouble for all the leaders. He was really unpopular and only due to my helping at the group and his younger brother attending that they kept him there.

At other times, he wants to be involved in family life. Previously, he would be very keen to visit us once a week, although I always felt on a knife edge if I'm honest.

Where do I go from here? I am sad.

OP posts:
Minniemagoo · 21/06/2016 16:11

Don't get drawn in, not do!!!

6demandingchildren · 21/06/2016 16:46

Having similar problems myself, but son actually attacked me and at this moment I want nothing more to do with him.

Biglettuce · 21/06/2016 20:29

I too have a feeling that the way your son treats you is so extreme and nasty that you probably need some help yourselves as parents, you've coped with a lot over the years. Be careful that you are not in a position where he could hurt you. Has there been threats or aggression in the past? As you get tougher get some good advice about how to deal with this and importantly, also how to keep your family safe too, at least until a 'new normality' has settled into - one where you are not drawn into intense conflict.

Namechanger65 · 22/06/2016 13:10

Well his messaged that he wants to meet tomorrow at 7, we will go and remain calm. We've discussed that we will say at the start of the conversation that any raised voices will mean an end to the discussions! I'm confident that OH will remain calm.

I'm not sure what we will gain from this, I am hoping we can make some headway.

Thank you for all your posts, sorry for those who are also experiencing this nightmare.

I will update you after the meeting

OP posts:
Namechanger65 · 22/06/2016 13:10

That should say OH and I will remain calm.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 22/06/2016 15:41

Sorry to wang on about Joshua Coleman but he has some good strategies for dealing with reconciliation with troubled/some adult kids.

It's hard to take because it goes against what we'd think - basically, it's keeping on the back foot. No lectures or 'harsh' truths (even though they are blatantly obvious 'truths'!). Not even any telling off. He basically says goes back to toddlerhood.

Your boy may be an adult but he's behaving like a toddler. Obviously it's your choice to engage in a way that may produce better results in the short and long term - and it's hard to give up the teaching role we've had so long with our kids. Hard to revert back to the toddler stage.

(Joshua Coleman also deals with fears that to aquiesce is to pander to them. But we are between a rock and a hard place and we end up in a polarised position: I'm right, you're wrong. JC's strategies go some way to remove that and keep communication open. Our kids have a significant beef, even if it makes no sense at all to us at all or to anybody .)

eg if I met my boy and he launched into an abusive tirade, I'd take off with a sharp telling off (mostly because I was panicking and didn't know what to do). These days I calmly, even kindly, say I'm not going to accept poor treatment and I regrettably have to leave. But I love him and miss him and look forward to spending some good time together. It feels patronising in a way because he's a man - but the telling off just goes down so badly and makes a bad situation even worse.

Namechanger65 · 22/06/2016 17:02

Springydaffs very informative, thank you!

OP posts:
Footle · 22/06/2016 17:18

OP, I don't think you should start by saying that. Read springydaffs' post carefully. You are not about to teach him anything. You've just said 'well, we'll remain calm !' - it does sound as though you're setting him up to start shouting so you can say,'well, we tried' and go home.

Abinob · 22/06/2016 19:10

OP I was like your son quite a bit tbh, trouble at school, getting arrssted etc I can't really explain why but it was a mixture of having a really hard time expressing or showing feelings (so acting like a dickhead out of a kind of weird child defence mechanism) mental health issues that I didn't really understand as a kid/teenager and being really pissed off with my parents for not helping me or understanding how it was inside my head (of course they aren't mind readers) my parents were a bit shit sometimes though e.G didn't help with cahms and just said there's nothing wrong with her, she's just naughty etc to school and things which made it a lot worse because I just wanted someone to help me with what was inside my head.
Word of advice though I couldn't stand it when my parents played the normal family brilliant parents card. Yes they were outwardly normal but they were also really dismissive and thought that clean house/holidays/etc meant that everything with me must have been fine.
I really can't explain it well but it wasn't on purpose it was like weird demented cried for help that obviously no one understood because it doesn't make sense really.
I'm 25 and normal and nice now though.

Footle · 22/06/2016 20:19

Abinob , that's quite an amazing piece of explanation.

springydaffs · 22/06/2016 23:31

I'm 25 and normal and nice now though.

^^hangs on those words for dear life

Abinob · 22/06/2016 23:52

I think some mental health problems, if suffered from childhood massively effect your relationship with parents because you expect as a child that your parents understand things that they may not, so you blame them. The kid doesn't necessarily understand the problems or realise that's what is causing the issues with authority and parents themselves even. They probably dont even know theyre blaming anyone. You can't help your behaviour and you're getting told you're bad because of it and you just want help but tou dont even conciously know that you want help half the time and you don't know how to accept or ask for help because that's the whole issue. Very complicated and not necessarily anyone's fault.
Just my opinion. I am still slightly bitter towards my parents but then they made it quite obvious that I didn't fit into their idea of how I should be based on my upbringing.

PolitelyDisagree · 23/06/2016 00:01

OP, I've no experience so take my suggestion with that in mind but how about suggesting that you only talk about the future and the really practical things that will allow you and your son to to have some sort of relationship.

I can't see how talking about the past will help - he will never see it from your point of view.
Maybe you could agree to meet up once a month for a 'quick' pub meal and chat about nothing of any importance.

Italiangreyhound · 23/06/2016 01:38

Namechanger65 based on your OP I would say he has some mental health issues or is suffering from some un-diagnosed disorder and I second the possibility of ODD (Opposition Defiance Disorder) or PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance).

I agree with MysteriesOfTheOrganism's advice, leave him to it... but not the analysis that you have in some way made him like this. I do not believe that at all.

My dd has autistic tendencies, she is very shy, she lies, she can be quite difficult, she has been aggressive. I do not believe any of this is my fault. Her behaviour is no where like your son's (and she is only 11) but I have been told by people I've made her like she is, I have not.

I do not believe you have made your son how he is. You've allowed him to get away with it for so long, but you've done it for the best of reasons.

ricketytickety great advice.

Euripidesralph re "You repeat almost every post " we are good parents", no one even hinted that you weren't and I totally understand you may have felt like you've been accused in real life maybe....but it comes across a little bit as if you are immovable on that which I find unusual"

I do not find it at all unusual. I expect the OP has got used to being judged and has judged herself too! Before my dd was 'diagnosed' with autistic tendencies (she is also very dyslexic which we did not find out until she was about 7 or 8, after her very difficult behaviour started)

I felt judged too. Even my own sister thought I had made DD like this. She now says she thinks dd is lucky to have me as she (my sister) could not cope with my dd!

Italiangreyhound · 23/06/2016 01:47

I know it is hard but if he were your partner not your son, you would have had 10 people say 'Leave the bastard' by now! You need to make it clear, "We are alway here for you. We love you." But you do not need to put up with abuse.

I don't think your text was passive aggressive, at all. I think you are at the end of your tether and text is not a good way to communicate. Maybe phone would be easier. Polite and friendly fine, rude the phone goes down. I think rude texts should be deleted and not read.

I like MurphysChild's idea of a letter. Just make sure you type it on the pc first, wait, read, re-read, make sure it is 100% how you want to say it then write it out by hand and post it or drop it off in person.

Also really like Nivea's advice of "On the day of the meeting try to be "an observer" that means sitting back and not getting into it with him." and the rest of the post, excellent.

And Footle's advice. Very good. You've had some very good advice on this thread. Grin Re "Try to find something to like about him while he is talking." Jolly, this is spot on. It can be so hard.

My dd is no where like your son's level but I remember once when she accused me (loudly) in the garden of hitting her on the head with a shovel, and had tried to lock me in the garden (aged about 8). When I got in, I sat there quite pissed off and she kept sort of falling into me, I realised she needed a hug (I am a very tactile person so she got plenty of hugs and kisses all the time!) I hugged her and I just felt she had so many emotions close to the surface, not just anger but lots of other emotions. For me it was a turning point. I did a parenting course (I've done loads) called 'Family Links Nurturing Course' and slowly things got better.

And Minniemagoo re "Don't get drawn in" very good. So easy to get drawn in. And Biglettuce warning to keep safe, such good and true advice.

6demandingchildren so sorry to hear your son attacked you. You are totally right to distance yourself from this abuse.

Abinob Wonderful glad you came through that. Well done for finding a way through it. Thanks

PolitelyDisagree excellent advice. "I can't see how talking about the past will help - he will never see it from your point of view."

So sorry for all who have suffered from this type of thing.

OP, You are not the villan of the piece and your son sounds very troubled and in need of help, sadly, you don't seem to be able to give it, and this is NOT your fault, he will need to access help. One in three people have mental health issues at some point in their lives. I've had a few. I can't imagine why anyone would think that assuming this might be mental health issues was jumping any guns, but as an adult he really will need to find and access the help himself. But it is excellent to hear how people get through these things and there is so much good advice on this thread.

Good luck. Thanks

Italiangreyhound · 23/06/2016 01:50

(I hope I don't need to say I did not hit D on the head with a shovel, but was mortified in case neigbours heard!

HeartsofOak · 23/06/2016 02:33

These days I calmly, even kindly, say I'm not going to accept poor treatment and I regrettably have to leave. But I love him and miss him and look forward to spending some good time together.

^^ this. I think you'll need this phrase OP.

Atenco · 23/06/2016 04:39

Hell it is hard to be the parent of a teenager, like walking a tight-rope. Sometimes the right thing to do is to kick them out when they are giving stick and two years later they are lovely and come back and thank you for it, sometimes they end up sleeping under bridges and it is all your fault.

AA often talks about the addict's trait of not accepting responsibility for their actions, but it is an all too human trait, so the more your son hates himself, the more he hates you because you are responsible for all his defects.

I think as he is an adult and obviously able to take care of himself, you should not expose yourselves to any more of his abuse. You love him obvioulsy, but you have the satisfaction of knowing that he well.

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