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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Broken relationship with son

93 replies

Namechanger65 · 06/06/2016 07:29

I'm not sure how or if I can fix this.

Son is 25, he was an extremely difficult teen, young adult. Expelled, arrested, charged with afray. One morning the police knocked on the door at 6am, arrested him. One of the officers said in front of me, "why are you acting like you do, you come from a nice home, your other seems like a good person, you should see some of the houses I go to" I'm just trying to demonstrate we are just normal people.

We tried everything for him, counselling, talking, liasing with the school etc. I was never out of that school. One of the things that he would NEVER do was accept blame. One time I went to the school and eleven teachers had written notes saying how unacceptable his behaviour was and he still argued and argued and argued that he didn't misbehave. He never accepted his behaviour was wrong, he never accepted punishment without world war 3 irrupting, he was such hard work.

There were 100s issues at home with him, he would call the police and tell them he was being beaten and he wasn't. He was screaming one day, stop hitting me, stop hitting me, I was sat outside in the car and he was alone in the house,. My neighbour came out and bless her took me into hers whilst I cried and gave me coffee and a shoulder. He was ALONE in the house.

As things got worse as he got older, he would push his father, me and out other son, things were turning really nasty, he was now a man, he had to leave. Things improved with some distance between us, he would come round once a week, it was "bearable". Last year he was involved in a potentially serious accident, we went to the hospital, he was discharged with the proviso that he stayed with someone for 48 hours. He was fine with us in the hospital, the second we were out of the hospital grounds, he was vile, saying he didn't want to stay with us, he hated us, he would rather be dead than stay with us, we were XXXX. I would not drop him home, I was worried and wanted him to stay. He called a cab and went home, nothing we could do. He did actually contact us the next day, I was strong and told him straight then, I would never put up with this type of behaviour again, that I had hoped that his violent and aggressive behaviour against us had stopped. That this was the last time and that would be it.

We do lots for him, he has to his credit got himself a good job and lives in a rented flat. We always try to help him, he had to come home for five weeks whilst between flats we managed to deal with it, he tries not a bit, five weeks not so much as an offer of him making us a cup of tea. I or my husband always included him in meals etc, he offered not a penny.

The latest incident is, he needed some specialist clothes for work at very short notice, didn't have the money until payday. So I paid for were delivered to me, I dropped them to him in the evening. He then didn't need them so we could send them back. He had been to our house, when OH dropped him back, he asked him to put the clothes in the boot so we could return them. He out half the stuff in the boot, typical of him, not his problem, etc

We discovered this about 36 hours later when taking them out to take to the post office that day., I've he put it in Monday evening, we were dealing with it Wednesday morning, OH was off, so it was a convenient day. We needed the stuff back quickly as it was close to cut off time to return. OH called irritated that on his one day off, he had to now drive over to his flat to get the clothes to,return. OH was not nasty, he was irritated and was like "you've only given us half the stuff, now I've got to come over and take time out of my day" , I was in the room, so I know. Well our son went mad, saying we were aggressive, nasty, vile etc. He cannot be told anything ever! He put the phone down, so I text, leave the stuff outside so your dad can collect it, let me know it's done as it is a massive pain anyway and if it's. It there to make it worse' he sent back a string of vile texts, telling me to piss off, That just because we do nice things, we only do it to make up for past misdemeanours, we have not right to speak to him like we do (again dad was irritated not abusive!) we are nasty vile people. He also fully seems to believe that we took 36 hours to manage to think of something we could have a go at him about, that we were looking for an issue!!! None of this is true of course, we were packaging it up then as OH was off the day. He honestly accuses us of the most bizarre things.

I've not contacted home for three weeks now, I worry about him and feel sad.

OH knew I was upset and contacted him on Saturday, again he has it ingrained in him that we are wrong. He is convinced we only do nice things for him so that we can "have a go" at him. It's just so far wrong I can't tell you, he seems totall convinced that we are trying to be nasty to him etc etc.

im not sure what anyone can say, but I'm sad and miss my son. I don't feel I can contact as his shouting and screaming will just lead to another arguemnet. But his anger and nastiness to us is almost like an illness. We are honestly normal parents, this attitude was shown in his schooling as I said previously and also he was a scout member and whiltst wanting to go, caused absolute mayhem and trouble for all the leaders. He was really unpopular and only due to my helping at the group and his younger brother attending that they kept him there.

At other times, he wants to be involved in family life. Previously, he would be very keen to visit us once a week, although I always felt on a knife edge if I'm honest.

Where do I go from here? I am sad.

OP posts:
Namechanger65 · 06/06/2016 15:00

He does seem popular amongst his peers, not had a 'regular' girlfriend. His anger used to be for teachers and other 'in charge' people. He was going round with a lot of troublemakers (he was one of them!!) and got into lots of trouble, affray. However now the anger only seems against us. It is so disproportionate with any "crime" like being irritated he had not given us all the stuff to send clothes back. His dad was irritated not aggressive! I was there!!

He then acted like we had been really nasty and aggressive, literally rewriting history!

OP posts:
Namechanger65 · 18/06/2016 14:43

Update, after stating that we have to apologies or nothing moves forward, I received this text.....

It's Father's Day tomorrow, we have to sort this out.

Given that his father had called him around one week ago, when he was adamant that nothing would change until we apologised.

My responses was ...how do you suggest we do that? (Putting the ball back in his court)

His response was.....right I tried

Then a further text.,.thanks

I've not responded and don't intend to, is that the right thing to do?

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 18/06/2016 16:55

How come he manages to behave well for work and for friends if he has a personality disorder?

I understand children with SEN holding it in at school and letting go at home, but as he was badly behaved at school too, but isn't when it suits him, that doesn't seem to fit in this instance.

Namechanger65 · 18/06/2016 17:05

Nannyogg that's exactly what was said when we took him for counselling etc, he can behave in some places but not others. It's so confusing!

But I am being different this time, I'm not just forgiving and welcoming him back, this time I need to stand my ground!

OP posts:
RickOShay · 18/06/2016 20:45

I think you have done the right thing. It is very hard, but don't reply. You are not his emotional punch bags. You are helping him understand that his behaviour is far from ok, he needs to have consequences for his actions. Stay strong.

Namechanger65 · 18/06/2016 20:53

Rickshay, thank you for that! It's tough but we do need to stay strong.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 18/06/2016 21:17

It's a disgrace that MH facilities in this country leave people in your position completely high and dry. The suffering!

I've just finished reading A Mother's Reckoning, written by one of the mothers of the Columbine shooters. Yy very severe bit out was a solace to me in a way - I'm another mother with a very difficult child who is convinced I am the devil incarnate (and will tell anyone who listens). She accuses me of the most outlandish things that don't even make sense...

Anyway. I'm surprised you've got this far on the thread without being accused of being toxic parents. This is often how it goes on here re people with toxic parents just can't help projecting. It is SO painful when you are desperate for help.

Sorry, back to the Columbine mother: it is clear that MH services are robust with troubled adolescents stateside. They pay for it of course. But I doubt we could get that calibre of therapeutic support here even if we had the money.

Talking of stateside, or Canada anyway, there is a bloke called Joshua Coleman, a psychologist, who has some interesting things to say about difficult /estranged adult children and how to manage it.

Namechanger65 · 19/06/2016 04:37

Springy sorry you've got the same issues! The things he says and the extremes he goes to, my neighbour admitted had she not experienced it first hand she would never have believed a child would do that. Actually screaming "stop hitting me, leave me alone" and I'm not in the house! That's just one example, sadly I've many more.

OP posts:
Out2pasture · 19/06/2016 04:46

op have you had professional counselling would you consider speaking to a therapist about this?

Namechanger65 · 19/06/2016 04:58

We did have this even he was younger, but nothing was ever "diagnosed". Honestly I cannot say a word to him now about this type of behaviour because he just so massively over reacts to everything.

Even my saying, "how do you suggest sorting things out?"

I feel oddly calm this time round, as time has gone on I have realised that before he has kinda ground me into moving on without an apology from him. But I'm a bit stronger now and I'm determined that I NEVER want to hear or receive texts of the nasty things he says .

Having said all that he's my son and I obviously miss him.

OP posts:
Out2pasture · 19/06/2016 05:22

not counselling for your son but for you and your husband so you can try new communication techniques that don't trigger your son so much or allow you to not engage when the conversation starts to escalate?

Namechanger65 · 19/06/2016 05:24

Sorry, I misunderstood! Yes we are happy to try anything. Not sure where we could access that type of help. Maybe GP would be the first step? X

OP posts:
Out2pasture · 19/06/2016 05:46

i would think so. i was fortunate to work with a team of mental health workers when my teen's were challenging. it was very handy to pop into their offices and discuss situations and ways to respond that are healthier than reacting with your gut.

Namechanger65 · 19/06/2016 06:24

The thing is he is now 25, not a teenager anymore!

OP posts:
Footle · 19/06/2016 06:52

I think the 'stop hitting me!' wasn't meant literally. It sounds like someone struggling with demons..
I feel for you.

Namechanger65 · 19/06/2016 09:04

Maybe not, but another example is, he would not go to school one day. We had a row, he then called the police and told them he was terrified of his father coming home as he would beat him. Totally not true, totally not justified. The police officer asked him if he was that scared why had he just not gone to school? Poor OH was not even in the house and he's calling the police on him.

OP posts:
Nivea101 · 19/06/2016 09:18

I think you have done the right thing by letting him have the ball in his court.

It doesn't matter if he's 15, 25 or 45 and your son that you love, he has no right to speak to you as he does.

It's very sad but what else can you do? If you keep allowing him to speak to you like that why would he stop? Perhaps no contact from mum and dad as he's been so used to will make him think a little bit.

If he doesn't have a problem with other people then that shows he does know how to speak and behave properly.

Namechanger65 · 19/06/2016 09:37

Thank you Nivea, I've never not contacted him, so I suppose it's got to be worth trying this.

I'm not sure what he meant by I tried? I didn't tell him to get lost, I asked him how we should sort it out? But it's typical reaction to me, whatever I said unless it was "come round, let's start again" would've been wrong.

So hard and so sad though!

OP posts:
Squashybanana · 19/06/2016 09:54

'how do you suggest we do that?' is a bit loaded, though, op. It's the use of 'do you suggest ' which is a bit passive aggressive. Your ds was actually reaching out, wasn't he?

It sounds like he is a mixed up young man and I don't know what I would do in your situation. But I do see why he was hurt by your response to his text.

Namechanger65 · 19/06/2016 10:11

Not sure it is passive aggressive? His father "reached out" the previous week and was told until we apologised that he wanted nothing to do with us. We've up until now always made the first move, forgiven and moved on.

But we've both had enough of the nastiness, anger at us.

We are not bad parents, but If we give, we're accused of just doing it to make up for supposed wrongdoings! If we don't give, we are being nasty.

I do think our son needs to decide if he wants a relationship with us, if he does he needs to not be so awful to us.

It's tough, but he does need to decide what he wants.

OP posts:
OurBlanche · 19/06/2016 10:28

I don't think your response was PA, loaded or anything other than one person at the end of their tether trying to cope with the bewildering actions of A N Other.

Sit tight and see if trying a different tack brings about a different response from him. You can't do much else. If he won't let you in you can only step back a bit and see what giving him space does.

Good luck.

Squashybanana · 19/06/2016 10:57

It may not have been (probably wasn't) intended to be, but it is certainly readable that way, especially if ds is inclined to be suspicious of people's motives.

It is a different response than ,for example, 'yes we would like to sort it too. ' it is readable in 2 ways - as a straightforward request for son's suggestions, or as a rather passive aggressive response. Given son's next reply, we can infer that he didn't read it as his mum genuinely asking for his suggestions. If he had -even if he wasn't really reaching out - he might have responded with 'am apology would be a good starting point' or something which would have demonstrated that he was still believing himself to be the injured party. His response 'at least I tried' shows that, whatever the intent, he read her response as dismissive.

He mentions father's day; he clearly does care about his dad to want to 'sort this out' before father's day or he wouldn't care about the date.

I'm not telling you how to sort the situation; it sounds immensely painful. But I do think he thought you were dismissing his attempt to reach out.

MyLifeisaboxofwormgears · 19/06/2016 11:05

The fact that he is able to function fine at work and has friends suggests he is aware of how to be normal yet has some sort of deep need to abuse someone - and that is you.
He clearly wants to punish you then see his power as you keep coming back - this is a classic abusive cycle. The continual "forcing" you to apologise.
You need to stop being his victim. How this dynamic occurred is lost in the past but he clearly has a hatred for you and any authority figure.

I would suggest you completely disengage from him. He has friends so it isn't like he'll be alone.

Namechanger65 · 19/06/2016 11:10

I can understand what you're saying, but whatever I say to him he either genuinely takes it the wrong way or deliberately takes things the wrong way. My intention was for him to suggest what he wants going forward. Yes, he did mention Father's Day, but it's not about one day, it's about how he treats us 365 days a year.

When you've done so much and it's thrown back at you, in the end you need to protect yourself. It hurts, but I do feel now that if we do reconcile (which I hope we do) it will be on a different level. Before we've never "stood" up to him, forgiven to easily and moved on.

OP posts:
ricketytickety · 19/06/2016 11:19

Yes, he wants control. Give it to him, just like you did. All contact instigated by him. If he needs help, wait until he asks you for specific help before you give it. If he wants to see you, wait until he offers to come round. If he says 'we need to sort this out' keep up with the 'how would you like to sort it out'. Offer no solutions. Let him instigate it all.

It will force him to be polite because he has to ask you for what he wants. It will give him that feeling of control he wants.

You can say 'we are always here if you want to ask us for help/discuss things with us.'

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