Any point calling WA? Don't really need anything from them

[UpDownUpDownandaweebitannoying]

I think I have exhausted MN help. And worse than that I have been relying in it too much. I have had a bad day. I am lonely and i can't do this alone.

I have been told to call WA before. I never have because talking to a real person is terrifying, anonymous online chat is ok. But also because I don't need practical help. There is a break up plan in progress. Just not a swift one.

i have up and down days and I keep losing my resolve, doubting myself. I just need someone to lean on. Will calling WA help?

[UpDownUpDownandaweebitannoying]

Thanks both. And for the "nudge".

By coincidence a health visitor called today (adding DC to records as we're new to the area). I was honest about struggling so someone will visit in a couple of weeks at new house.

[UpDownUpDownandaweebitannoying]

I hope this isn't a wallowing type post because it's long. I am feeling fairly clear headed this morning and not wallow-y.

Therapy assessment was really helpful I think. Absolutely draining as was asked about entire life history. But strangely unemotional so ok. He agreed female therapist and thinks he can get me help fairly quickly.

So all in all a good thing to do, feeling "lighter" today.

But if my past experiences are so shocking is DH right that it's me not him. Does it matter anyway if abusive or not? A sensible part of me thinks if therapy would help me I should be doing that first. My heart tells me I'm no longer in love, my gut instinct is this is not healthy for me.

Do I owe it to my husband and children to try first?

(We told the children this morning and my eldest took it all in very well. And is even a bit excited about 2 homes! I don't want to undo that positive response)

Long long very guilt inducing email from SIL not helping.

[UpDownUpDownandaweebitannoying]

Actually ignore. I can work this out.

[CharlotteCollins]

These little dips of uncertainty get wearing after a while, but it's all natural and part of moving on. It's what I meant when I said be aware of how you're feeling but don't make any new decisions at the moment.

Anyway, good to see it was a temporary wobble. I'm assuming what you've worked out is it's possible for you to have a difficult past AND for him to be abusive.

That's great that telling DC is done and went well. Another step forward!

[UpDownUpDownandaweebitannoying]

it's possible for you to have a difficult past AND for him to be abusive.

Yes. This.

And thank you.
Yes. It feels like lots of little steps at once.

[NameChange30]

I don't think your post was wallowing at all, it sounds like you've been making good progress and you're just sharing some thoughts/questions which it's natural to have in the circumstances.

Firstly I'm glad both the therapy assessment and telling the DCs went well; both important steps. Well done

"But if my past experiences are so shocking is DH right that it's me not him. Does it matter anyway if abusive or not? A sensible part of me thinks if therapy would help me I should be doing that first. My heart tells me I'm no longer in love, my gut instinct is this is not healthy for me."

To answer the first question, NO. Your husband is not right. He is still abusive. However, your abusive past has probably caused you have low self esteem and made it difficult for you to recognise healthy v abusive behaviour. I think that your past might explain, at least partly, why you have accepted or at least tolerated your husband's behaviour towards you for so long. However, that doesn't make his behaviour your fault in ANY WAY. You are only responsible for your reaction to it.

FWIW I think it's a good idea to listen to your heart and gut instinct when they say that you don't love him and the relationship isn't healthy.

"Do I owe it to my husband and children to try first?"

NO! You don't owe him anything. You owe it to yourself and your children to leave an unhealthy relationship as soon as you can.

[NameChange30]

Oh and re SIL (and any other in-laws, for that matter). You don't have to be in contact with them if you don't want to. If they are anything other than neutral or supportive, you should cut contact with them. Feel free to ask them politely not to contact you. If they ignore your request, and particularly if they are critical or abusive towards you, feel free to block them.

[UpDownUpDownandaweebitannoying]

Thanks Emma. I've ignored the email.

Ive noticed today the number of occasions where i intervene between DC1 and STBXH. And actually even with our toddler. Just wondering how women reconcile leaving their children (contact) with a sometimes controlling/stern parent?

[Iamdobby63]

You are doing really well. At this stage don't think too much, you are in a very fortunate position to be purchasing the second home making separating much easier from a practical point of view. Just move into it and see how it goes.

[NameChange30]

To answer your question about child contact... You could ask a solicitor about ensuring he only has supervised contact (in a contact centre for example), I'm not sure what kind of evidence is needed in order to get that, but a solicitor could advise.

[NameChange30]

Rights of Women have a handbook about child arrangements and domestic violence - if you call their helpline, you can ask them to send you one.
rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/child-arrangements-and-domestic-violence-a-handbook-for-women/

[UpDownUpDownandaweebitannoying]

Wow Emma. Been reading some of the other info on Rights of Women website. WA mentioned this organisation too. Taken aback by what is considered criminal. It's what I've been told over recent months on MN but its different to read it officially.
Thanks for link.

[NameChange30]

You're welcome. Knowledge is power

[UpDownUpDownandaweebitannoying]

Not sure whether this should be asked elewhere...

Is there any benefit to divorcing earlier rather than later if we can agree interim financial arrangements. Which I think we can.

Thinking about waiting 2 years so we've been separated long enough.

[NameChange30]

You don't need to wait 2 years - you can do it straight away if you cite unreasonable behaviour, of which you have countless examples!

I'm not a solicitor but as far as I understand it, the advantages of divorcing straight away are a clean break and getting it done and dusted. The disadvantage of waiting two years is that there may well be two lots of stress and expense instead of one, because you will need some kind of separation agreement covering finances and child arrangements, and the whole thing may well need to be revisited in 2 years when you divorce.

However, ask a solicitor for qualified and more detailed advice about the differences and pros and cons.

[UpDownUpDownandaweebitannoying]

It just seemed like a less acrimonious process. Solicitor has replied saying pretty much the same things you have.

Actually my unreasonable behaviour statement doesn't give her enough to meet the threshold.

So I have put it on hold until after I've moved and got some head space for it.

[NameChange30]

The thing about an informal separation is that you will still be legally married with all that entails.

When you wrote the unreasonable behaviour statement, did you include the most recent and worst examples of abuse? I find it hard to believe it wouldn't be enough unless you left things out or "softened" it.

Your STBXH is abusive so I think that unfortunately it will be acrimonious whatever you do. If you want a fair arrangement for yourself and your children, you're going to have to fight for it, and he won't like it - but the alternative is to let him carry on walking all over you.

But as you say, all this will probably be much easier to think about and manage when you've moved out.

[UpDownUpDownandaweebitannoying]

Thanks for your thoughts.

Yes, I think in trying not to be contentious I softened it too much.

But Emma even with my thinking being a lot straighter - and you were right, I'm not feeling so bad since talking to people - I cannot put the worst things in a court application. Too difficult. So I'll have to work around that.

I want, for DC sake, to give us a fighting chance of co parenting well.

It's also very difficult to describe the everyday things. Its been a subtle type of control.

I think with child contact to work out I am fearful of antagonising him.

It sounds like it would be a mistake to back off so I will definitely try again in a few weeks.

[UpDownUpDownandaweebitannoying]

Oh god I'm so sad. Not the same horrible confusion again. It feels simpler. I've booked removal company, I've thought through everything I can. I know what I'm doing. I know I'm choosing this.
But I just feel so so stupidly fucking sad.

[CharlotteCollins]

Well, it is sad, and that's not stupid. Who wants their marriage to end?

Allow yourself to feel sad for what should have been, for what you hoped for. It's OK to feel like this.

[UpDownUpDownandaweebitannoying]

Thank you. Its really sad. It wasn't the plan. And I think I'm sad for what it's never been.

[AmIbeingTreasonable]

You absolutely need to put the worst things in the court application. Remember you will have some ongoing contact due to the children, if they and you need some protection from his behaviour I think it would be a mistake if you don't mention everything. I know it's scarey but you have to do the best for yourself and your children.

[UpDownUpDownandaweebitannoying]

AmI I still worry about things getting unpleasant, however unrealistic the goal is to try and keep this civil. I'd be no match for him if things turned. And I can't shake off the worries about my mental health. I don't know what is disclosable but I don't think it would look good if he decided to discredit me.

None of which is likely but I don't want to be naive over it.

I'll speak to my solicitor after we've moved. She is pausing everything at the moment for a few weeks.

I do get what you are saying.

[NameChange30]

I agree with AmIbeing.
You say "I'd be no match for him" - but you don't have to "fight" him yourself, you have a solicitor. If he contacts you with abuse or threats you can block and report him. It won't help his case actually.

[CharlotteCollins]

It was his responsibility to stop things becoming unpleasant, by not behaving unpleasantly! You don't stop things becoming unpleasant in the future by keeping quiet about unpleasant things that happened in the past.

Just as well you have a sol to fight for you when the time comes.