Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

DH 'falls out' with Our toddler and generally childish with her. How to approach?

99 replies

Tiskettasket67 · 15/05/2016 19:03

Have NC. My DH is mainly wonderful but does have a childish streak. For instance, we can't play board games or quizzes etc because if he loses he gets incredibly sulky and sucks the fun out of anything or if we go somewhere for a social that he doesn't want to be at he will be very rude and ignore people, not engage, make everyone uncomfortable and I'll feel so awkward we leave.
Anyway, with our DD Who is three, he adores her, spoils her rotten and is a really good dad. Except for when he isn't. He will get in a sulk with her and be quite unkind and it breaks my heart to have to stick up for my three year old!
So the other night she woke up, he went to her, she said she didn't wNt him she wanted me so he shouted at her to 'shut up' and stormed off leaving her crying (I was in my way to her by that point) then the following morning she woke up and he went to get her. She said something to the effect of I want mummy not you. To which he said fine I don't want you then, shut her door, passed me in the corridor and said to me 'she's being a twat' (she did not hear that). I went to her and got ready etc but he wouldn't talkto her even when she tried, he ignored her and when she was saying 'daddy's grumpy. Why's daddy grumpy? I can make him happy?' I wanted to die inside because why should she have to worry about how he feels if he is sulking and being unkind. Concerned she's going to end up with some awful esteem issues and think everyone's emotions are her responsibility. Frequently when he sulks at her and she says that I just say, 'don't worry, daddy's fine. Nothing to worry about.' And another time they were playing and he wound her up teasing her and wrongfully, she hit him. But instead of telling her off he pushed her away and said 'I'm not playing anymore if you're going to be horrible'. And then ignored her all afternoon and I had to stick up for her again saying that he shouldn't have wound her up, shouldn't have pushed her away etc etc. when I bring it up with him he then freezes me out too and gets mardy with me and we all have a shit day. Another example is if she misbehaves or something whilst they are playing together he will throw whatever they are playing with across the room and say 'right I'm not playing anymore'. I mean, what a knob, how can I bring this up? I explain she is only three and that this isn't fair on her. He is just too hard on her. And whilst I don't want to belittle him in front of her or seem that we are divided, I cannot condone how he behaves when sulking and she is my priority. He works in child development and I am so surprised he doesn't seem to see how this childish behaviour could be affecting her. She is becoming really attuned to people's emotions and I don't want her to think him being a grumpy twat is her fault.

OP posts:
newtscamander · 15/05/2016 21:28

And you had a child with him...why...?

JonSnowsBeardClippings · 15/05/2016 21:30

Newt - unhelpful.
Ticket - your eyes are open now, don't wilfully blind yourself again.

fortheloveofvintage · 15/05/2016 21:43

Hey. Sometimes the comments on here can be really unhelpful, like the one about him having trained you and now training your daughter. Those kind of comments do nothing but make the OP feel bad and like it is all their fault.

This isn't your fault. No one knows what kind of parent they or their partner will be. Humans are complex, relationships are complex. At least you recognise that what he is doing is not good for you or your daughter.

I think you are right that he is reacting to stressful situations with your DD in a way that he does not want to. The reason he gets mad when you bring it up is because he feels guilty and maybe doesn't know how to handle that guilt or make it better so finds it easier to just have a strop so you drop it? I know that I can be snappy with my DS at times and it's absolutely not how I want to react to stressful situations, I don't want to be a shouty mum. Luckily I have developed a coping mechanism which is to remove myself from the situation if possible and calm down with breathing exercises. Sounds like your DH needs a coping mechanism and something like anger management would prob help him if he's willing?

Also think it's interesting that he says he was ignored by his mum for days at a time. This could possibly relate to his reaction to your daughter 'rejecting' him in favour of you?

Obviously there's a chance that al of the above is just over analysing and your DH is just a twat, but only you know him as a whole person and can make the distinction.

Have you ever tried just asking him in this kind of situation why he is so mad/frustrated in a sympathetic way (even if you don't feel it) maybe it would let him drop his guard and open up about why he is feeling/reacting the way he is. I expect just confronting him or challenging his behaviour will get you no where as he will get defensive and moody.

Loooong post sorry.

DeadGood · 15/05/2016 22:49

Give him an ultimatum and be prepared to follow through on it. It sounds to me as though he will not take it seriously unless there are immediate consequences.
OP, can you have this post moved to the Relationships board? I think you would get some very helpful answers there. But what your husband is doing to your child is totally unacceptable, I know you know that already, I hope you find a strategy that works for you. An exit plan as suggested above sounds like a very good idea.

Goingtobeawesome · 16/05/2016 08:44

You can't change the past and you can't send your DD back so you have to move forward. Give him a chance by all means but that will only work if he recognises what he is doing is wrong and if you are prepared to walk away when he wont change. Don't let your daughter be a pawn in his pretend attempts to stop being an abusive twat. And a minimum time, if he does it again in ten minutes time you have to be prepared to walk otherwise what's the point in talking? Oh yes, your DD is...

bibbetybob · 16/05/2016 08:55

Strongly agree with fortheloveofvintage.
It's really sad to see so many people leaping on the bandwagon of just dumping someone when they are obviously struggling, rather than trying to sort it out. And I am speaking from the POV of someone who has suffered abuse and struggled with anger issues in the past. It's not always black and white and just because it's a male partner it doesn't mean he's intentionally being a manipulative, evil monster. I bet most of you would be saying different things if the roles were reversed in this post.
OP it sounds like your DP is massively struggling with rejection. Obviously blaming your DD is not the way to go about it and he will push her away more. I've skimmed a bit so may have missed some but have you tried sitting down and talking through it with him? Maybe devise a strategy for him if she says something that makes him feel rejected, replies he can give to her and then he could come to you and talk through how he's feeling? I know it's not your DDs fault but it's obliviously hurting him and he's just dealing with it in a horribly toxic way. He needs to work through the problems from his past without hurting her too.

wizzywig · 16/05/2016 09:16

He may have gone into a child related career to somehow deal with the demons of his childhood. Having a child may have allowed the feelings that he had as a child of an emotionally abusive mother resurface.

Costacoffeeplease · 16/05/2016 09:22

This cruel side to him has always been there but it is so out of character for who he really is

No, this is who he is, you say yourself it's always been there

MissMargie · 16/05/2016 09:32

It seems common for people who have suffered problems in life to become counsellors or carers. So likewise it sounds like he had a bad childhood and possibly thinks, as he has been through it, that he is suited to helping other children. Hence is career choice (maybe he is good at it when it is not his child).

He is reenacting stuff from his childhood I would say. And his abusive childhood means he has no way of knowing the best way to be, how a good parent behaves. He needs some serious longish term counseling to sort this out. I doubt he is capable of being aware of what he is doing with DD so probably won't be able to fix it by himself.

DD is not happy but he obviously can't be either, this will not be how he envisaged fatherhood.
Dumping him doesn't mean he fades into the ether. It means he will spend one to one time with DD unless his behavior is deemed to be so bad he can only see her under supervision.

Threatening to leave might make him start sorting himself ie counseling.

NamelessEnsign · 16/05/2016 09:35

My grandfather (who was physically abused and abandoned as a child) treated my mother this way. She sometimes had his undivided attention and love, and then other times she would somehow displease him and he would refuse to speak to her for weeks. He would ignore her, or criticise her endlessly.

My mother has long term issues as a result and tries hard to her own detriment to please others. She has low self esteem and self worth. Withdrawal of affection is terrifying for her. She of course couldn't help pass this along to her children too.

This sort of behaviour has long term consequences for a child's physical and mental wellbeing. You must stand up for your daughter and find a calm moment to talk to your husband. He may need a push to get out of these habits, or counselling, or parenting classes.

But something has to change, or your poor girl will grow up feeling she isn't good enough for her dad.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 16/05/2016 09:41

I would insist on family counseling and a final warning. Can't believe he's in child development, good Lord! I couldn't continue to be with someone who was so immature.

cornishglos · 16/05/2016 09:51

Talk to him when your daughter is not there and you're both in a good mood. Go out for a walk and bring it up gently then. Plan what you want to say. Make it clear how worried you are. Decide some outcomes. For instance, when he feels annoyed he must walk away/ count to ten...

SeaEagleFeather · 16/05/2016 10:15

missmargie is right, a lot of people go into counselling / caring careers because they are backhandedly seeking the care they need themselves.

But this ignoring of your daughter and active unkindness, leaving her in tears; he is making her responsible for his emotions and that is wrong.

unfortunately as he is so very childish, he is going to have to grow up very fast - if he chooses to grow up at all. Most people don't. A few do (and kudos to them, it's very hard).

I almost called the wedding off with three weeks to go when I found his okCupid profile. But he begged me not to. I am a twat clearly.

you are not the twat here. Don't go down the route of blaming yourself here; actually, blaming anyone is a waste of mental energy. Just work out practical steps to sort this situation out; that's what your daughter needs.

(btw, I'm seaeaglefeather, not seagullfeather! :D )

Goingtobeawesome · 16/05/2016 10:27

No one is jumping on any bandwagon saying the OP should abandon a struggling man but when there is a small child getting caught in the cross fire any support needs to be give away from the child so that she doesn't get damaged in a quest to fix the father.

Celledora · 16/05/2016 11:51

This is the first time I've posted on MN, I can't NOT say something to you OP. Long post, sorry.

I know it must be difficult to share your situation and also to hear all of the above. I was in the same situation as you in regards to the relationship, but no children at the time. I cared desperately for the man I had known and been with since we were teenagers. He had underlying issues stemming from emotional abuse/neglect (though he wouldn't call it such) in his childhood. Our relationship was intense and loving except when it wasn't - when he would be angry or 'out of character' when drinking and get into arguments with friends and sometimes low level fights with other people. I was committed to helping him by showing him unconditional love and making him feel secure, eventually making him happier and able to be his better self, that side was amazingly warm and funny and caring. In practice, by extension this also meant ALWAYS thinking about how he may feel about and react to anything and everything happening in his world and trying to influence for the better/mediate to minimise confrontation. He came first for me because that's what love was. It was exhausting at times but I didn't know anything else.

The first time I called him on his behaviour in a non-supportive, mothering type of way he lashed out at me physically. I'm ashamed now to say that I stayed because I was sure it was a one-off, I loved him deeply and was aware that leaving him there and then would have a devastating impact on his self esteem. As it was, after the initial apology he didn't think it was such big deal. I was very lucky to work in the same office space with someone who had for years ran a women's shelter and who patiently got me to see over a series of (what she made seem like light-hearted) talks that the longer I stayed with him and prioritised his emotional development, the lower my self esteem became and that I may not always have the resources to support him never mind myself, unless I 'let him' take charge of resolving some of his issues himself - perhaps without me there to act as buffer he would be more able to admit to/take charge of helping himself with his issues.

Feeling like a terrible person, I left, hoping that we would benefit from time to focus on ourselves and that we'd then be back, stronger than ever. I took care to be as loving as possible even in this. I never stopped loving him in fact but did learn that I shouldn't be with him. A bit of perspective and a painful process of acknowledgement meant we never got back together though we tried again twice. We can all choose how to manage our feelings - I refused to be ok with how he decided to continue to act toward me, issues or not.

The reason I was able/willing to be in this kind of self-destructive relationship in the first place? My own father-daughter relationship. Which sounds eerily like the one you describe between your daughter and her father. My mother had the same reasons you mention for not firmly and definitively stopping him in his tracks - it got worse the older I got - she thought drawing attention to it may make it worse for me, she didn't want me not to have a father, he wasn't physically hurting me. It just taught me how to live with it like she did. Also to be very close to her as though unspoken, we knew we were 'in it together.'

In the last year i had a traumatic birth experience and have been seeing a counsellor. Though unrelated, when the therapist asked me to talk on parenting relationships, she made no bones of the fact that she was quite shocked by some of my recollections of his behaviour and has made me acknowledge that even as a 33 year old, the relationship is still having a devastating impact on my wellbeing. As an adult and now a parent it has also had a negative effect on the way I feel about my beloved mother - I would not allow my child to go through this kind of upbringing and realise that it is a choice she COULD have made - this is heartbreaking for both of us.

Please, please realise that you cannot make him behave differently - as others have said who are suffering from anger issues, your support counts and you don't have to give up on him, I assume you wouldn't want to. However, your daughter is your priority and make no mistake, this behaviour will damage her self-worth and ultimately, relationship with you as well as her father. He needs to be given a wake up call - separation may be it. Hopefully if he does manage to start dealing with his problems he will see that your protection of her in a way as amicable as possible with him, is for the good of all three of you. Good luck, OP, I feel for you.

squizita · 16/05/2016 15:25

He has you trained already, now he's training her into submission.

This.
He knows how the mind develops because of his job.

He is deliberately emotionally abusing her so she becomes pliable and stops complaining. What a vile man.

Catmuffin · 16/05/2016 15:58

I think someone might be able to learn how to change how they responded to a child if they were willing to accept help via a parenting course or something, but ignoring your dd is a horrible and damaging way to carry on and i wonder if he's realistically going to stop that. At least if you split up he'd likely make more of an effort not to behave badly if his time with her was limited and then your daughter would have the option to vote with her feet when she was older.

Tiskettasket67 · 16/05/2016 22:20

Thanks all. Have read your replies.
I'll start from the beginning. This morning when he left for work and I said bye he was incredibly frosty with me and there was no kiss etc. not spoken all day until 5pm when he didn't answer my call. I continued calling every so often then text too as he was an hour late coming home with no reasoning. I genuinely thought he had left us after his behaviour yesterday and this morning. He eventually polled up and was quite moody. But snapped out of it after about 30mins. He said he was v busy with work and a bit stressed. I told him that tonight I wanted to talk to him about something and he said ok.
So DD went to bed and I approached the subject with him. Gently at first. I explained how I felt his behaviour was having a negative impact on DD and how it needed to stop. I asked if his mums behaviour was similar when he was a kid and he said no. Throughout the whole 'conversation' (me talking, and getting increasingly frustrated) he just looked at his phone and when I challenged him said he couldnt be arsed with this, that the reason he is so work focused is because everything else in his life is shit and that he didn't want to talk about it and how his evening was ruined now.
I suggested parenting classes and he said they were a waste of time.
He said that DD had a better relationship with me because he was at work all the time (he goes to her in a morning and does bedtime each night for this reason but constantly complains that bedtime is an unenjoyable time for him to spend with her). I thanked him for telling me that's how he felt and asked what I could do to help him feel closer to her. He said nothing and said that he would start to have as little to do with her as possible ie no mornings, no get ups etc.
In the end I said if he felt this way and that he couldn't even be bothered to have a conversation about our DDs emotional wellbeing and that work was the best thing going for him, perhaps he needed to leave. I told him adored him and love him but that it hasn't done us any favours but that now the has got to stop because it's not fair on dd or me and that he should have a good think about whether he wants to leave or not because I won't put up with it anymore.
I've come upstairs. I stayed pretty calm. But i am devestated.

OP posts:
Tiskettasket67 · 16/05/2016 22:28

Also, i agree it should be moved to relationships now. How do I do that?

OP posts:
Tiskettasket67 · 16/05/2016 22:45

Oh and I did express that it was all out of concern for DD. I suggested the leave the room, count to ten that you have said. But basically it's all shit and we can't have a discussion about this and he wants to throw his toys out of the pram and be incredibly hurtful. Not sure what will happen now really. Doubt he will come to bed, doubt I will sleep. Doubt he will come home on time tomorrow as he knows I am due to go out. All a bit shit.

OP posts:
BombadierFritz · 16/05/2016 22:50

God he sounds like a toddler having a tantrum. How do you live with this? Really sorry he is being a dick op Sad

Tiskettasket67 · 16/05/2016 23:01

I don't know to be honest. I loved him for so long, I think I was just so grateful he loved me back that I have coped with it for almost a decade. Probably because when I was single I was miserable and wanted to die. It's amazing what becomes normal when you feel a bit worthless.

OP posts:
Tiskettasket67 · 16/05/2016 23:03

That said, I was so miserable six months or so ago that I actually called Samaritans, because despite him being in the house and knowing I was struggling mentally, there was nobody else for me to talk to.

OP posts:
DeadGood · 16/05/2016 23:06

Oh OP I'm sorry he is being a dick but you sound like you did amazingly well.
I believe to move the post you could report it, and ask for it to be moved as you do so, and a moderator will move it. I think.
OP, you need to protect yourself from his moods and whims now. You mention going out tomorrow. Is there anyone who could watch your DD at short notice if he fails to show up? I foresee a power struggle otherwise, in which this guy exerts control over you by not showing up when needed. Then he gets to come home, unapologetic, as you sit fuming at the kitchen table, angry because your plans have fallen through. That scenario can only lead to argument and won't be helpful.
You're doing great Flowers

DeadGood · 16/05/2016 23:09

tisket the more you write, the worse he sounds. I hope you can see that too. You sound like such a loving mother, yay and your daughter are clearly such a wonderful unit - how pathetic of him to "threaten" to withdraw the time he spends with his own daughter. I know I'm being harsh but he doesn't deserve you two.