How to set boundaries with overbearing in laws

[Fuzzywuzzywasabear]

This is probably pregnancy related anxiety but it's really bothering me...

In laws are indian and very traditional and sometimes (not sure if it's intentional) hurtfully dismissive of my British culture.

I'm NC with my DM, DGM and DB due to me being the family scapegoat and as a result have no ability to set healthy boundaries within any of my relationships.

I'm currently 6 months pregnant with our first baby and feel very anxious about the in laws taking over and not listening to me as our babies mother.

Last week we had dh's whole family around for dinner SIL insisted on speaking indian the entire time despite being asked to speak English repeatedly as 2nd SIL and myself are British and are excluded from the conversation when they all speak indian. -to clarify don't insist they all speak English all the time just when addressing everyone PIL often speak directly to dh in indian but English to me.

For dessert I served a pudding with a jug of custard on the table for everyone to help themselves to as much as they wanted MIL then insisted on serving everyone while explaining to SIL2 in their culture it's rude not to serve people.

This has really upset me as they were guests in my house at my table and I'm not from their culture, I don't feel they should impose their rules in my house, I'm very respectful of their culture but I feel they don't respect mine.

I know it's such a small thing but I feel like they will start to impose their views on our child and how I bring them up I'm already dreading the first few weeks of the baby being home as I'll have to deal with the family visiting and I only have dh in my corner as the rest of my family don't speak. :-(

If you've shown no interest to even know what language they speak why should they meet you half way?

Sorry but this is absolute rubbish. Flip it on its head - why should OP try to learn about their culture when they are so rude and dismissive of hers? I think the OP is looking for a way to resolve the issues so this tit for tat approach is not helpful is it?

FWIW, I think it's far worse for the IL's to be ignorant of British culture than it is for the OP to not be clued up on Indian culture - after all, the IL's do actually live here. And if they aren't ignorant then that means they know full well how rude they are being.

I think you need your DH's support on this one OP. Ensuring that his family treat you with respect and do not exclude you is his responsibility.

oP should have known that marrying into any non European family means you meet the whole family and not just the husband.

Would OP hAve a Problem if they spoke only Italian or French?

Do European couples not meet the whole family then? Gosh how special.

Yes it would be a problem to be excluded whatever the language.

The outrageous thing is - they say all this stuff, insult the British culture, while living here .

Fuck off then.

I guess rain the English are that and more, specially if you read the daily fail every summer and see on the news what other countries think of them.

But saying this, there are tactile ways to approach this. One could directly ask, so you think I am xyz. Next time they would see it hurts you and maybe they will curtail or stop this opinion being shared.

But by refusing to meet a culture you have married into even half way, one would be trying to divorce the background the parter comes from.

One should know this when getting into a multicultural relationship.

Typo on 'mother' I meant 'another'.

I think you need your DH's support on this one OP. Ensuring that his family treat you with respect and do not exclude you is his responsibility.

It is fundamentally about respect. Remove race, culture, language etc everything else is a distraction. Your DH needs to respect you as well in easing relationships between you and his family.

You did marry him NOT his family. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

But by refusing to meet a culture you have married into even half way, one would be trying to divorce the background the parter comes from.

One should know this when getting into a multicultural relationship.

You seem to have great difficulty in grasping that it works both ways. They also need to meet British culture half way as they have a British DIL. Two in fact.

They shouldn't be trying to divorce the OP from the background she comes from. Can you grasp that??

Finally the DH is also in a multicultural relationship. Does he know what he is getting into?

I disagree with brass.

If you understood even the basics on Asian or Latino or middle eastern cultures, you marry the whole
Family and not just the DH.

So OP, up to you how you handle this. With maturity by keeping the family together which may mean give and take and lots of humour to teach each other your boundaries or you make a big deal about a small issue and break off all relation and isolate you DH by dismissing the culture he comes from.

isolate you DH by dismissing the culture he comes from.

gosh you really are blind. Why is it ok to dismiss the culture the OP comes from??

If you understood even the basics on Asian or Latino or middle eastern cultures, you marry the whole Family and not just the DH.

They (the family) may think that but that doesn't make it true. No one has to go along with it. It's not compulsory. It's just a cultural stereotype.

oP has already stated she comes from a family that don't speak to each other.

If the family she has married into have a good enough relationship with their other DILs, which is what it seems like to me, then it OP who has to fit in.

you clearly don't understand what you have read then.

The other DIL is also Britsh and also excluded. The indian SIL is equally rude.

OP with the example you gave don't take it badly. I think Indian mothers of that generation love to take it all out as a full dish or dessert and don't do the help yourself thing but I get what you mean by your culture should be respected too. In that scenario I'd let her comment and serve and put my feet up.

When the baby comes you might be told they did things differently in their days. Just take it on the chin and say OK. My grandparents did it all the time like saying give what when baby was breastfed but I'm not totally all for the research we get told every six years or so, so when she was four months I did give a sippy cup with water here and there as it was full out summer and I don't wait to wean from six months. I start tiny tiny bits before.

Basically whatever culture or wherever you're from in laws and parents and even friends always comment. I totally understand the scapegoat thing which is so hard when applying to the other non blood relatives even more but I learnt something from my SIL which is to listen but carry on with what you're doing anyway. And if you want you can take some of that advice or let them do whatever like serving the custard or sending food everyday or whatever. Saves you a job.

I think the OP is rude in not even knowing what language they speak.

I think the OP is rude in not even trying to understand WHY it is good manners to serve people. Neither ways are wrong or right but to extrapolate this tiny thing into bringing up children at 6 months pregnant is foolish.

Didn't she know the family before she married into it?

She must have accepted some part of it to go ahead and is now worrying about something she should have thought about before marriage.

The talking in Indian is a no go though. Your OH should have a word and put a stop to that in front of you.

brass, you seem very invested in this thread, is there a reason why?

I'll agree that OP shouldn't have said 'indian' when describing the language.

I think the OP is rude in not even trying to understand WHY it is good manners to serve people. oh dear and hahahah do you know it is the year 2016?

Didn't she know the family before she married into it?

She must have accepted some part of it to go ahead and is now worrying about something she should have thought about before marriage.

The rest of your post demonstrates that you do not understand how respect works and that you are incapable of objective analysis or argument.

Nothing in a marriage vow says you will disown your own upbringing and you seem utterly incapable of accepting that what applies to OP applies to her husband as well. All the questions you are throwing to OP apply them to her DH and his family and assess if they are making an equal effort. You seem totally obsessed with OP making all the concessions.

I don't need any reasons orange

Why didn't you quote the rest of my sentence Brass.

Was it because it did not serve your argument?

Unintelligent debate from you, verging on trolling.

My ex is German and I had similar problems, and felt just as shit about it. His parents would make dismissive comments about British food or talk about e.g. how superficial British people are because we call people by their first names all the time. I felt like I couldn't complain as they were not being intentionally hurtful. Now I don't have my ex giving me dirty looks if I disagree with his family, so I say what I am thinking. Not rudely, just honestly; we might then have a discussion about cultural differences. I feel like I have a better relationship with his family as a result and I'm sorry I didn't do it earlier.

Now my daughter has her first boyfriend. We live in Germany, he is German. My son, daughter and I speak English together, but when we are sitting at the table with her boyfriend we speak German. That was a bit weird at first, and it means we can't joke around the way we usually do, but I know he can't understand everything otherwise and I don't want to exclude him.

The OP explained why her ILs find it more polite to pour the custard - she clearly gets that aspect of their culture - but she does not think it should apply in her house, where saying "make yourself feel at home - help yourselves as you like" is polite. OP: make that clear. Say what you think. Find a pleasant way to say it, but say it.

Unintelligent debate from you, verging on trolling.

Ha! and in that one sentence you totally decimated your own credibility. Bye bye.

Now my daughter has her first boyfriend. We live in Germany, he is German. My son, daughter and I speak English together, but when we are sitting at the table with her boyfriend we speak German. That was a bit weird at first, and it means we can't joke around the way we usually do, but I know he can't understand everything otherwise and I don't want to exclude him.

Remove race, culture, language etc as I mentioned before. if you want to make someone feel included and warmly welcomed into your family you act in a considerate way. You make allowances for differences not use them to isolate or disparage someone.

I'm well aware of what language they speak I take interest and I'm respectful of their culture the use of the term "indian" was for ease of explanation as the exact language they speak is irrelevant to the point of the post.

I also don't want to out myself in the rw as dh family are from a minority group in terms of geographical location and the language would give it away.

With respect to the culture we had a traditional "Indian" wedding (again I won't go into religious details) and I participate in important religious festivals throughout the year to please the in laws and I refrain from eating certain forbidden meat despite eating it before I met dh.

DH and myself discussed at length before we got married how we would raise our children and what aspects of his culture and mine we would take forward into our marriage so I've not blindly married into another culture without any forethought or understanding.

We have tried to talk to in laws they were the same when we got married only intrested in their bits of the wedding and not interested in any of the British parts which I tried to include them in.

To clarify I've not fallen out with my in laws I have an ok relationship with them I just find it difficult as they are very overbearing when it comes to their way of doing things, the fact I'm NC with my family has nothing to do with this it's because both DM and DGM are crazy narc bitches so there's nothing common apart from me and I'd have to deal with the cultural issues if my parents were completely normal and I had a great relationship with them the difference being I'd probably have a healthy level of self esteem and understand how to set healthy boundaries.

Thank you for the constructive replies I probably should stand up for myself when it happens while accepting that they may or may not take it on board.

I will definitely look into the book recommendation thank you

Oh and with regards learning their language I did discuss it with dh however as it's not a common language here it would be very difficult for me to learn and while Mil has suggested I learn it no one is willing to teach me so I'm a bit stuck on that point really.

I do just sit there smiling while they chat away with dh and his brothers awkwardly trying to translate parts of the conversation for me if British SIL is there I just talk to her and ignore them it's very uncomfortable to have to deal with.

As I stated in my original post I don't mind if they are talking between themselves pil often speak to dh it's just when it's a group setting I feel very excluded SIL speaks good English I think she does it intentionally to be rude she was also talking over British SIL at me in "indian" which if you've ever had 2 people speaking to you in 2 different is very confusing and stops all conversation which is probably why she did it.

I wondered when I was reading your posts if the Indian SIL is deliberately or unintentionally doing a bit of one-up-man-ship and claiming the role of favourite DIL, or "golden child" and that part of what is grating on you is the faint echo of the dynamics that can emerge in families with a narc parent?
I'm not trying to throw this back on you. I think they are being very rude and disrespectful towards you, but a part of the problem of your family background is that it skews your perspective on what's happening. What a person from a NT family might shrug off as a "difference of culture", or their rudeness and therefore THEIR issue, might be deeply hurtful in your circumstances. And that's not to negate your feelings but the first step in erecting boundaries is to distinguish between them and you. Just because they do not consider you worth the effort to include in the conversation does not make you worthless; it just makes them thoughtless and rude.
When I was reading your posts it put me in mind of this article which may or may not resonate. The author discusses the difficulty of distinguishing normal levels of social invisibility in light of an abusive upbringing.

I think the key to it all is to learn to speak your truth simply and without unnecessary emotion. Lots of PPs give great examples. I struggle hugely to do this. I think I always will but as far as I can see anything else leads to some shade of crazy

Pregnancy throws another prism on family life as you mentioned in your OP and you probably will have your work cut out for you! But that's not just confined to cross cultural relationships. I've posted before about how I took to referring to myself and relations in the third person see the crazy coming out to constantly reinforce my authority as mother. "Say hello to nana....it's ok now mama's here..."etc. Carving out normal boundaries is still a work in progress, and that's without any obvious cultural clash. But in a fundamental way the only difference the baby will make is to raise the stakes for you so standing up for yourself now, and treating yourself as someone to be respected is very important.

The other problem I see in your situation is that it is all such trivial, excusable, understandable things that it is hard to justify your anger over a jug of custard. But I have to take my hat off to you because it took me 8 years or so to identify the fundamental lack of respect for me that lay at the heart of my MILs behaviour. You've already spotted it. I'm going to differ from mumsnet convention and say that your DH might not have a lot of power in this dynamic to make his family change or might not have discovered his power yet so when you ask for support ask for what he CAN give. You could ask him to translate what was said, either during conversations or after they leave, to make him aware of how much you are missing. i don't know if I can put this well but if he's giving out to his family about how they treat you it can fall on deaf ears, because it's you vs them with him as a go between, but if he is getting irritated with them because their rudeness to you inconveniences them, it becomes an argument between him and them which is fundamentally different. It's a silly example.

Anyway, enough from me and for you