How to set boundaries with overbearing in laws

[Fuzzywuzzywasabear]

This is probably pregnancy related anxiety but it's really bothering me...

In laws are indian and very traditional and sometimes (not sure if it's intentional) hurtfully dismissive of my British culture.

I'm NC with my DM, DGM and DB due to me being the family scapegoat and as a result have no ability to set healthy boundaries within any of my relationships.

I'm currently 6 months pregnant with our first baby and feel very anxious about the in laws taking over and not listening to me as our babies mother.

Last week we had dh's whole family around for dinner SIL insisted on speaking indian the entire time despite being asked to speak English repeatedly as 2nd SIL and myself are British and are excluded from the conversation when they all speak indian. -to clarify don't insist they all speak English all the time just when addressing everyone PIL often speak directly to dh in indian but English to me.

For dessert I served a pudding with a jug of custard on the table for everyone to help themselves to as much as they wanted MIL then insisted on serving everyone while explaining to SIL2 in their culture it's rude not to serve people.

This has really upset me as they were guests in my house at my table and I'm not from their culture, I don't feel they should impose their rules in my house, I'm very respectful of their culture but I feel they don't respect mine.

I know it's such a small thing but I feel like they will start to impose their views on our child and how I bring them up I'm already dreading the first few weeks of the baby being home as I'll have to deal with the family visiting and I only have dh in my corner as the rest of my family don't speak. :-(

[brassbrass]

oh dear how obtuse - I was saying bye bye to you hara

[brassbrass]

You also say you are not going to try to teach your husbands mother tongue to your children

hahahahahahahah so how does she do that? when she doesn't speak the language herself. You seem very intent on OP teaching everything.

Where does the father come into this? After all he speaks the language and knows more about the culture. Why do you feel so strongly it's down to the OP to do it. How very odd!

oh and if you bothered to read the thread you would see that the father himself isn't fussed about his DC learning the lingo. Go figure. Kind of negates your argument doesn't it?

[Fuzzywuzzywasabear]

You're making huge assumptions there!

Why are you obsessed by the custard? It's just an example of their behaviour which is where the issue is.

As I stated already I do make an effort to take intrest in their culture and intend for our child to learn about both which is why I take part in religious festivals and rituals.

dh would be quite happy for them to be completely British it's actually me who insists on him explaining things which is why it upsets me when the interest and respect is not reciprocated by the in laws.

As brass said I'm not sure why you seem to think I should do everything and there should be no reciprocation from the other parties involved.

[harajukugirl]

dh would be quite happy for them to be completely British it's actually me who insists on him explaining things which is why it upsets me when the interest and respect is not reciprocated by the in laws.


What is being 'completely' British?! Please share the guidelines on here.

Your opening statement said something like 'pregnancy related anxiety'.

I think it is. You are extrapolating too much** from what I gather a small incident

[Fuzzywuzzywasabear]

Sorry but I refuse to go into this any further with you harajuku as whatever I say will be wrong/racist/me over reacting - you've nothing constructive to add and I have better things to do than be your afternoon entertainment.

[NanaNina]

hara just thought I'd mention with a child of mixed parentage is no longer called a child of "mixed race" but a child of "dual heritage"

[NanaNina]

sorry "that a child" not "with a child" and maybe I should have said the correct terminology is "dual heritage"

[fuzzywuzzy]

I'm indian, it's cultural to serve yourself, I've family from three different states in India and it's always good in the middle and you take what you want in the quantity you want.

There is a very nasty Indian culture of treating your dil like the household slave, that's probably what your mil means. Ex outlaws tried that with me, & believe me when I say NOTHING you do will please them, you will always be lacking.

So please yourself.

And it is incredibly rude to speak in a language the hostess does not understand especially if you're able to speak the language everyone does understand.

And make sure your husband is onside, otherwise your not going to get anywhere.

[shovetheholly]

Just wanted to say that I TOTALLY get the custard thing and why it would wind you up, and that it would annoy me too.

Just to share a little: MIL (English) does this to me. I'll serve a dinner on sharing plates (e.g. roast potatoes in a pretty dish on the table) and when it comes to dishing up, she can't just let people help themselves but has to direct, at the top of her voice. It actually cuts right across any conversation that is happening in an entirely rude way (she will literally just talk over anyone who is talking) when people could just as easily help themselves quietly and gracefully and gesturally, while carrying on with whatever conversation is happening. I now plate everything in the kitchen and serve it as is to avoid this. However, it doesn't stop the many other attention-seeking behaviours she engages in, which also storm straight over everyone else who is speaking or acting at that moment.

I suspect that this small gesture has been amplified to the nth degree by the fact that you have what sound like reasonable concerns that they will railroad you over your baby. I think you need to speak to your DH about these concerns, and discuss how you can protect yourselves, as a couple. Otherwise they will eat away at you and really upset and undermine you.

I also think that, with people who are willing to be blatantly rude to get their own way and overstep all boundaries of politeness, you often have to be very assertive (sometimes uncomfortably so) back in order to be seen. It's not you forcing this, it's them. Reading up on assertiveness techniques and practising these has really helped me.

[springydaffs]

Take no notice op.

I had a lot of this shit when I was bringing up my Dual Heritage children after marrying their International father. Years and years of intimate, lived experience accounted for nothing in their eyes.

It really is a pile of steaming shit. But there we go, keeps them busy. Just not at your expense, I'm with you on that.

Where is India btw? Is it anywhere near us?

[needfemaleadvice]

I am south Asian and Indian families have a thousands year old tradition of treating dsil as cleaners, cooks and baby factories. Stand up for yourself now and Indian sons tend to be overly obedient to parents- tell him he married you and he needs to start putting you and the baby first.

Sometimes you have to control the situation.

[Hydroshield]

Plus the moron who gave the example of speaking European please just don't comment here again

You tell another poster not to attack the OP, but it's ok for you to refer to another poster as a 'moron' and become the thread police?

[BertrandRussell]

Plus the moron who gave the example of speaking European please just don't comment here again"

The moron in question here. Please ma'am, do you mean just on this thread or Mumsnet in general?

And please, could you tell me what the difference is between saying "speaking Indian" and "speaking European"? Nice easy words if possible.

[RainIsAGoodThing]

Was talking about this thread and my own experiences with a friend and she had some brilliant advice about taking back control. She said:

1. say exactly how it makes you feel. Eg. 'When you speak in a language I can't understand, it makes me feel excluded and like you don't really want me to be here'.
   
   
2. Acknowledge that you know that their intention isn't to hurt. 'I don't think that's really how you feel about me, and I know you're not rude or unkind people.'
   
   
3. Tell them that it won't happen again. 'I know that now I've explained, this won't be an issue any more, because you won't want me to feel that way.'
   
   
4. Tell them that you're moving on. 'Let's move on from it now - I'm glad we could talk about it but we should put it behind us.'
   
   I'm yet to give it a try but I thought it was brilliant advice! I'm going to practise it in the meantime...

[Fuzzywuzzywasabear]

It's interesting you bring up the daughter in law thing as I hadnt actually considered that! If I think back she does say or do things but they'd be little things that if I mention to dh he'd dismiss, I mentioned the custard thing after they'd left and he just looked a bit bemused.

The only time she's done it and he completely agreed she'd done it was when we went to buy my wedding sari and the girl in the shop asked what style I liked, there was a beautiful one on display which I knew would be out of our budget but was the style I wanted quite plain and simple with just an embellished border dh asked how much it was and it was £1000 which I never expected to spend! the girl asked what our budget was and she'd find something similar in our price range mil reply £50! I've never felt so small!
in the end dh took me shopping without pil and got me a beautiful one exactly what I wanted and a bit over budget to make up for the horrendous first trip :-)

She also never discusses anything with us only him, like she'll ask him does fuzzy want to do and then I have to decide based on dh's vague description of the thing which generally ends up being not at all accurate - we're currently discussing the naming/feeding ceremony for the baby which in dh words is "the baby has to touch some stuff, then there's some chanting stuff, then the baby gets fed mixed up rice by everyone" which considering he's attended several is pretty useless?! The rice is supposed to be the babies first solid food.

he definitely has the Indian son obligation/ guilt thing going on Possibly more so because he went against their wishes by not having an arranged marriage?

I wonder if he's purposefully vague because it's easier for me to just go along with things once I'm there doing it than possibly upsetting mil by me refusing to do something - I've point blank refused that anyone else will feed the baby solids first (elders always go first so pil) which he looked really uncomfortable with, but agreed that we'd probably be ok to feed baby before hand then lie to PIL?!

I agree I need to be more assertive.

Sorry for the epic post, it's good to get other opinions on the issue who understand, none of my friends understand the Indian family dynamics and so can't really help.

[Fuzzywuzzywasabear]

Thanks rain, I will try and practice those!

[lavenderhoney]

Remember you don't have to agree anything then and there. You can say ( or hopefully our dh will) " we'll think about it, and talk it over, and decide together"

If she takes this as a yes ( highly likely) you will and your dh have to be very firm right away and say no. Even if it's happening! I'm afraid my ex mil just arranged and we found ourselves doing it. If we didn't there would be tears and misery from ex mil and every saying she didn't mean it. Oh she did.

You need to educate yourself about expectations they will have and educate yourself about yours. ( as a couple) It's your baby, not a family possession. You can say no.

Your dh looks bemused and doesn't know because he knows you probably won't like it - much easier for him to feign ignorance and hope you go along with it. He's enabling them to some degree to avoid a row and keep her happy. The baby will most likely be the catalyst.

[brassbrass]

You could also say to DH and MIL that if she wants you to participate in ceremonies she is going to have to ask you and explain it herself because DH is too vague and in future if you only get vague information you will just say No.

[ravenmum]

BertrandRussell Are you trying to usurp my position as First Moron around here? The cheek!

[needfemaleadvice]

I would like to apologise for my comments if they hurt anyone. Trying to be practical adviser:

Ask your husband if be genuinely believes this stuff and wants it for his child. It sounds to be like he's a closeted culturally because he's afraid of his parents. He might not like this stuff by his lack of detail. I have a cousin who's Asian but British born. Married a man from South Asia who she met here( sort of arranged but according to her she did fall in love... It was a long courtship anyway. Her husband is very involved in the home culture and teaches her about their shared culture that she knows nothing of. He doesn't force it on her but he cared enough to explain and he understands it fully. Your husband on the other hand sounds a lot like me except he's a man. I never felt belonged in my parents culture and any excuse to get out I would take it. Fast forward to adulthood+ husband and I usually get out of visiting temples etc by using my husband as an excuse... He's got a work thing I have to be there for... Or he's planned a getaway...

Tell him you're respectful of his parents culture because genuinely you sound to me like you are respectful but he hasn't bothered to teach you anything. Ask him if he acknowledges his parents culture as a part of him? I don't like to compare but if he was really passionate about his self identifying culture he would make more of an effort. Its always nice to do things when u have a baby because the more people who see the baby and partake on the activities will want to wish the baby love and happiness although expect a tonne of bitching from the 'aunties'.

This will sound really crass but ever heard of goodness gracious me: most of these funny stereotypes are still true today. If you have some time to kill or are bored its worth a watch on YouTube.

[needfemaleadvice]

To Bertandrussell:
I assume u never saw my original comment and only the quoted bit: European is not the same as Indian because

1. Europe is a continent in which there are over 34 countries as opposed to India which is first foremost identified as a country by nearly all its 1.2billion inhabitants.
   
   
2. Europe has several different language groups and different cultures ( just like India) but most people in Europe would expect it to be taught as a continent.
   
   If you visit India/Bangladesh/Pakistan/Sri Lanka... Most people wouldn't know about Welsh being a language of the U.K. Just like most European people can't remember off the top of their head various Indian languages unless they have taken a special interest.

[BertrandRussell]

Oh yes, I saw your original comment. I also saw your comment recommending Goodness Gracious Me as a learning tool.......

I presume you would recommend Little Britain as a guide for someone marrying into a British family?

[needfemaleadvice]

Dear Bert,
I recommended ggm as a humour tool. Sometimes it's necessary to laugh about things. I'm south Asian and some of the older generations still stick to those tacky streotypes. Op is pregnant and like all of us she probably is overthinking this a bit too much.

Once OP finds humour in the fil(familyinlaw) behaviour it's alright but until then she shouldn't be victimised for no reason.