Massive argument

[ammature]

Please help, i feel totally crushed. I have a 12 week old baby I'm a FTM and have no family here. My DM is dead and so have limited support. The baby is generally not much trouble but giving background. My DH is amazing with him and they are have a great bond. We have argued in the past and went to counselling for a few sessions with relate whilst pregnant as we had a big row while Pg but things have been good and we are generally very happy and in love since DS came along. Fast forward to Sunday night, i had my first night out and first proper time apart from DS who is EBF. DH came to pub with me and i did a feed at 8 and he left and i was home by 11 so not very long. I text DH a few times asking for an update and when he replied eventually he said baby wouldnt settle, only took 2 oz of ebm and was screaming. I immediately replied I'm leaving now and got up to go, tbh we were all done by then so went to get cab, nightmare as BH, got one but was hyper with worry. He called and said its fine now and i asked about food he said ill tell you when you get home. Got home ran upstairs DS sound asleep, then looked of DH he came out of the loo said everything was fine. I admit i over reacted, it was my first time away from my son since he was born and i was so worried. I had a bit of a go about the lack of text messages and i was told off for sending "short" messages, he said you don't trust me with the baby. I said i did, which i fully do but felt i was having a normal maternal response. Anyways we argued and it go out of hand with my husband really loosing it, he called me a fucking bitch and said he regrets ever marrying me. I was so hurt i took to the bedroom and he went to the bathroom crying. He was clearly really upset and he apologised profusely and said he didn't mean it but i was really hurt and said well it had to come from somewhere. He locked himself in the bathroom and i could hear him crying so i went down and made him sweet tea and gave it to him, he threw it away. and we bickered again. went to bed, we slept apart for the first time ever. I know i shouted and thats his absolute red flag, i need to try harder not to but it was a mess. in the morning i brought him a cuppa and the baby for a cuddle and he said he felt awful very ashamed etc we did hug but things were cool and at 4pm he went off to work away, he's back tonight at 8 and we have argued on the phone and by text. i feel totally alone and hurt and he's cold with me. I said i love you and he said my comments were glib and he didn't feel like communicating with me. He said he's dreading coming home and is only doing so out of responsibility for our son. I said i had looked at flights to my home country and he rang and accused me of kidnapping the child and that if i took him out the country without his permission there would be consequences. i can't believe he thinks so little of me. I meant to go home for a few days to clear the air, and frankly i couldnt face travelling even if i wanted to go but the thought that he would think this of me. i said i felt he might leave me and he rationalised that he wouldnt because he wouldn't see his son. Nothing about me, love our relationship etc. I feel despondent and he has made an appointment for tomorrow for the relate councillor again, i think he won't talk to me until we are with her and i feel he's using her as a referee.
Obviously he has his own version of events but i feel really worried for the future of our marriage and feel totally heartbroken. Thanks if you've read this far.

On that one point about your family - I was a nine hour flight away from my family and friends and took DD back on my own when she was a few weeks old. Flying when they are tiny is an awful lot easier than when they start walking! It would also give you and your DH a bit of a break - and time for him to work and get some decent sleep, and hopefully your family would help out and make a fuss of your DS and you could both "regroup". Would that be a possibility?

@curren they couldn't have my mum is dead, my dad is disabled and I'm talking about my extended family it's complicated.i agree I shouldn't be resentful it's just the way it is but he could try to be a little more understanding. He is doing a pt degree on top of work and a new baby it's amazing and I'm proud of him but once I'm a while I would appreciate a thank you for what I have to give up for him to do it.

But isn't what he is doing going to benefit the both of you eventually? Aside from travelling home is there anything else you had to give up for him to do this?

I would imagine it's quite normal during therapy that included a new mum they they would concentrate on her first.

Think you should consider a short holiday to see your family, not on the back of a row but just for the reasons you have given.

I've had to give up weekends with him, we don't go to bed at the same time, distracted from me because his mind is on higher things. He's away in the mornings to study too essentially time together as a couple. It was always something he was doing for his own interest but now three years in he's thinking more about career change. It's another 3 years to go. We will see my family in June. I agree it will eventually be of benefit for the family but ultimately be a massive achiement for my dh too which I am happy about. Think I'm just feeling a little unappreciated.

I think you've had a bit of a hard time from some PP. Leaving your baby for the first time - even if it is just for a few hours - is very difficult and a total wrench for a lot of new mums. Your DH should have been more understanding of that and made sure he responded to your messages. I think he's been very dramatic to turn it into a trust issue and put you on a guilt trip.

I totally and utterly disagree with one PP who said something about motherhood not entitling you to "special dispensation". It bloody well does! You've not long had a baby which has taken a massive toll on your body (not your DH's), you are EBF which presumably means that you are predominantly the one getting up in the night to do feeds (not your DH) so you're exhausted, your DH is studying so intensly for an exam that it has rendered it impossible for the three of you to take a 50 minute plane journey until June so I'm assuming he's therefore far too busy to be offering you much real help around the house or with the baby. Add to that the fact that your hormones are probably still all over the show and I think you can indeed be cut a bit of slack.

What really bugs me is the fact that your DH feels he can call you a "fucking bitch" and tell you he regrets marrying you(!) and yet he retreats to the bathroom in floods of tears because you raised your voice which is one of his "red flags". He may have apologised but his behaviour didn't improve the following day so he obviously wasn't very sorry.

He doesn't sound very supportive to be honest.

Thank you for your support to the last poster. I also felt being a new mum would at least offer me some dispensation too :-( he is very supportive in terms of cooking but as its his hobby often spends ages in the kitchen when I would be happy with something simple. He is amazing with the baby very bonded and loving I guess in a way I feel left out the way some men do! I made a big effort never to be critical of a single thing he did with ds. Using a million baby wipes etc!and he is very confident as a dad. He told the councillor he felt nothing had changed for him. I feel everything is different for me and I miss my mum terrible.

Oh sweetheart

You said before that you were happy and in love so you've got a good starting point. He sounds selfish but he doesn't sound like a total lost cause.

When he gets home, can you tell him that you want a proper talk. Say that you feel you are both stressing out and that you need to reconnect a bit, no arguing, just a conversation. Then agree a time to do this when you're both focused and well rested.

Missing your mum is totally understandable and must be awfully lonely. Maybe your DH just hasn't realised how sad yiu are feeling about it. You need to tell him what you've said in this thread, that you're so happy that he's got such a close bond with your son but that you would love to spend more time altogether (I.e. beans on toast for tea rather than him cooking for 2 hours). You really do need to speak to him about your mum though and ask him for some support. If he's even a half decent husband then he will do everything he can to help you with that. xx

As a couple you sound like you have a lot going for you - if the foundations of a relationship are strong then it can certainly weather some storms.

I feel that being a new Mum should bring some dispensations but unfortunately it seldom does.

Have you had any grief counselling? Might be a good idea.

Your feeling are valid and relevant. On a practical level what actions would make you feel better, what do you want him to do? I ask because sometimes it's good when discussing issues to present a possible solution.

OP, in the kindest possible way, you were being a bit unreasonable getting into a flap on your night out - and you know it. Yes, you get special dispensation for it being your first night away from you baby, but you know he was safe with your partner, he wouldn't have come to harm. He was unreasonable too, and should have shown you more understanding.

You're sorry, he's sorry - when you're anxious new parents with a lot going on these things can escalate. I think you should forget counselling, (I don't rate couples counselling) and draw a line under it. Give each other some space and mutual understanding. First few months (and years!) with a baby is difficult. It's a huge adjustment.

If it's any consolation, DH and I had loads of these silly arguments when dc1 was tiny - we got over it. So no 'LTB' from me.

But do book your trip home! IMO, you could have gone alone for a few days.

Sorry about your mum

You know... I think you are both equally responsible for this fall out, yes it is normal for you to get all stressed out about baby being distressed while you are out, as normal as it is for him to be distressed not knowing what to do with an upset baby when left with baby for the first time in his own.

The weeks after the baby is born are dreadful, you are hormonal, in pain, confused about what is the best way to deal with baby, while at the same time realising that overnight things have changed dramatically at home and will continue to be like that for the time being.

You both are tired, and when you are tired things get magnified and look bigger than they are. You are saying he called you a bitch, but you have not yet said what you told him before he called you that. I doubt he would have ended up crying in the bathroom out of guilt (unless he really meant it and he didn't want to you to know that yet), what did you say to make him feel so aggravated?

Calling you a bitch which is really bad, but that is nothing compared with telling him you are going to run away with his son to another country. You have really done yourself a HUGE disservice with that, how on Earth can he trust you after that??? You will need to work hard on getting that trust back and that possibly will take weeks/months/years longer to heal than being called a bitch.

I think you need to take more notice of his feelings, you say that you are very in love, happy, and a good team, but you have been going to Relate very recently (otherwise I don't understand how did you manage to get an appointment that quickly). You say he wanted to go but you were happy not to. I'm sorry for saying this, but have you considered the possibility that he feels quite differently about this? The fact you are happy in the relationship does not necessarily means that he is in the same place. He may feel you are minimising his feelings and if so... It is not a surprise he got upset when you tried to solve things out by bringing a cup of tea.

Sorry you are going through this.

"We had a big row while Pg"
What happened exactly?

And why did you make him a cup of tea after he called you a "fucking bitch"? You're focusing on how upset he was, but what about how you feel? He was the one who insulted you, surely? Unless you called him names as well?

"I was very hurt and tried to make amends"
Did he try to make amends for hurting you?

"I know I shouted and that's his absolute red flag"
Does he shout?

I get the impression that he has double standards - he can get angry with you but if you get angry or criticise him, he punishes you (by crying, threatening to leave, withdrawing affection, etc).

"I feel he stonewalls me quite often and I feel quite invisible now."
That's one of the signs of emotional abuse. Does he do anything else on that list?

I agree with AnotherEmma.
Is he from a different culture?

Communication protocol:
Hi, I have a message for you. Are you ready to receive it? Wait for distractions to be paused and full attention with eye contact. (If no, then it is not a good time to talk.)
Establish platform for listening without interrupting.
Establish rule for listening party to repeat part of what was said to ensure it was heard and interpreted correctly.
Wait for response, do not interrupt response.

You can not make him listen to you though. You can not make him talk to you. Refusing to communicate is a control tactic.

Stonewalling is serious. It is contempt. It is disrespect. It is making you invisible, and you have already said that you do feel to be made invisible. This is not good for your mental health. You should insist to address this with the counselor. And this is a deal breaker issue.

You are not your husband's slave. You are not your husband's employee as an unpaid child minder.

I didn't threaten to leave him and go to my home country try I said via text I feel totally alone, I'm looking at flights maybe we need a few days apart. Hardly threatening to abduct our child. What did I say to,him... Stuff along the lines of what happened, what happened with the food (he only took 2oz) why didn't you text me back, I've been trying to get a taxi and freaking out, my books hurt I feel totally freaked out... Escalating to I feel like I can't leave him with you if you don't keep me informed. The issue was me persisting and I know that: I was bag out of order. No he is not from another culture he is very intelligent and thoughtful with his delivery normally. Yes we have issues with him withdrawing I think. I've found the studying in the past an excuse to retreat leaving me alone of an evening. That's been hard. He doesn't normally shout he simmers and erupts once in a while as has been the case here. Tbh I think he wanted the councillor to take him side and rather she focused on how invisible I felt and asked him what he could do. He seemed taken aback and said he obviously hadn't been doing the right thing. He definitely doesn't abuse me and I am definitely not his slave.

Sorry for typos! I've read the list and nothing there except for a lack of empathy at times. He's actually said his self-esteem is really low at the moment he says he only heard the negative and none of the live and reassurance atm

I think it's a possibility AnotherEmma but unlikely, on balance. They both seem in an awful state. Placating isn't necessarily a bad thing - sometimes defusing is the bigger thing to do.

Well I'm glad he doesn't do anything else on the list, that's good. Hopefully couple's counselling will help you both to communicate more effectively and manage arguments without them escalating too much and getting to the point when he's hurling insults and threatening to leave you.

If he claims to be too busy studying to take a short trip to your home country so that you can introduce your child to its grandfather, I think you should go by yourself. He should be able to get plenty of studying done while you're away!

FWIW I think he needs to work on his priorities but that's something you can discuss in counselling.

PS You still haven't said what happened in the "big row" when you were pregnant. It might be helpful for us to know what happened so we can see if there's a pattern.

I can't actually remember what happened in that row... I know he lost it again. Threw his phone in a temper at the floor. Hence why we got help and we both felt it was deeply unhealthy especially given our baby was on the way. Tbh the councillor basically prescribed him being more attentive to me. He was upset yesterday and said the sessions we have had seem to end up being about my feelings with little space for his so I suggested he goes again alone or books again an we can focus on him this time.

Regarding the studying the degree is extremely intense and he gets 100% in assignments it's not something he can really just dabble in its full on. He's already tried to do it once and quit so it's very important to him which I respect even if I moan.

I have to say, the more you post the more the dynamic you describe is worrying. He sounds very selfish and self-absorbed; he wants everything to be about him and his feelings. You seem to have accepted that, as your posts are very focused on him and what he thinks and feels. That's very unhealthy. In a healthy relationship, there would be a much more equal balance of each partner listening to the other and respecting their feelings and needs. Maybe the counselling sessions felt one-sided when they were actually balanced, which isn't what he (and you) are used to! Couple's counsellors are usually trained to be balanced and not take sides. Has the counsellor done an individual session with each of you? If not that might be helpful.

I think I am quite ruled by my emotions and he's very logical and rational I can understand how for him that can be overbearing at times. Honestly I'm not sure it's always all about him as he doesn't express his feelings lots. I think he has these out bursts because I push him over the edge a bit :-( no individual sessions.

Last time I will interrupt. AnotherEmma I think you are dabbling in something you shouldn't be. There is clearly a lens through which you are interpreting the OP's posts and you are completely overlooking what the OP needs to remember - that there are two sides to this story and the only way her marriage will work is if she also listens to his side. Which does deserve to be heard. That wasn't a selfish desire of his and you don't have a right to be throwing your judgement around and declaring yourself worried. I'm not saying it, but we could criticise the OP's actions on several levels. No point. Neither of them is ducking accountability. You're looking for a pattern for reasons of your own.

OP, stop listening to strangers on the internet re: the minutiae of your relationship and go to the counselling. Give it a chance. That's the place to get a reasonably clear perspective.

I just don't get the general tenre of the responses on this thread so far. Perhaps posters don't have humdinger arguments and are offended by them. Whatever, IMO you did nothing wrong - or if you did do anything wrong it was perfectly understandable. I would have been off my head if my new baby was screaming in distress.

Re: OP, in the kindest possible way, you were being a bit unreasonable getting into a flap on your night out - and you know it. I absolutely disagree with this!

I was exactly like this when my kids were babies. We are hard-wired for this. FYI I was having a blast out one night and got a text my 9yo child was very poorly. I lost interest in my partying on the spot and immediately left. That is normal imo.

As is scrabbling to get to your NEW FIRST BABY WHO WAS IN DISTRESS; and being very cross he didn't update you on the way. What point was he trying to make putting you through that?

As for scurrying after him when he called you a fucking bitch and him crying in the bathroom - how did it end up being all about him?

Tensions and arguments can be awful during these very pressured early years. Keep going to relate, keep plodding on. These early years can be hard.

Wishing you - both, all - the very best op

(ps please can you put your posts in paragraphs, hard to read in a block!)

Ops sorry. Will do paragraph!

Erm someone who is rational and logical can be also be overbearing, too.

NB: emotional v rational are classic frictions in all most marriages.